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Originally Posted by hejustlaughs
(Post 14347409)
... if you've mastered the art of having miles come out of your ... you might as well spend them on business or first tickets.
This art also allows me to put my money where my mouth is: I posted above that if an all-cash C ticket were only 50% more than a Y ticket, I'd pay it. Thanks to the recent promotions of DL and US (of which I learned on FT, of course), I purchased C tickets (meaning miles needed for C tickets) at $1800 a pop, whereas coach tickets are around $1200. So master the art and you can readily fly C. |
Originally Posted by zbenye
(Post 14347740)
To master the art, you only need to follow FT...
This art also allows me to put my money where my mouth is: I posted above that if an all-cash C ticket were only 50% more than a Y ticket, I'd pay it. Thanks to the recent promotions of DL and US (of which I learned on FT, of course), I purchased C tickets (meaning miles needed for C tickets) at $1800 a pop, whereas coach tickets are around $1200. So master the art and you can readily fly C. |
Originally Posted by SkinsFan0521
(Post 14347732)
To me, the difference between coach/business is much greater than between business/first. Sure, there are extra ameneties that are included in First, but not enough (IMO) to spend the extra 50% or 100% miles premium that is required.
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Originally Posted by hindukid
(Post 14347779)
just curious. Would you pay almost double for business to Europe? UA and CO are 55 vs. 100 and BA is 50 vs. 100.
To answer, yes, I would probably do C to Europe nevertheless, as I have plenty of miles right now and they can still be bought cheaply from US. I get your point, and yes, there is a limit to how large a multiplier I will tolerate, and it's probably right around there at 100%. |
Originally Posted by zbenye
(Post 14347867)
Interesting why the diff between Y and C going to Europe is so big (~100% per your info) while to the Middle East it is only 50%.
To answer, yes, I would probably do C to Europe nevertheless, as I have plenty of miles right now and they can still be bought cheaply from US. I get your point, and yes, there is a limit to how large a multiplier I will tolerate, and it's probably right around there at 100%. I paid 90K vs 60K when we went to BKK but that is the only time I have paid the business amount. I look at it as I am not willing to spend more than $15 an hour to upgrade and the miles are worth about 1.1 cents apiece. On US carriers my number gets closer to $10 an hour. And for any domestic flights my number is only about $3 an hour. Personally I think that those who say miles are worth 2 plus cents are spending close to $1400 extra on a Europe RT which amounts to about $75 an hour. I don't know how many people have thought about it in terms of hourly cost for C travel but I bet its generally pretty tough to get below $50 an hour. |
Originally Posted by thegreatgambler
(Post 14344147)
I am traveling from Zurich to Kolkata,India on BA with AA miles. The economy tickets were 20k miles and business was 30k miles.....and for that 10000 miles extra i cannot even think about any calculations.
Individuals might give different cost to their miles based how they accumulated it, different cost to the comfort they receive on business vs. economy and hence you might be right from your point of view but might be wrong from my point of view and vice versa. Anyways, enjoy your trip wherever you are jetting. That's terrific value. Though I guess you're restricted to flying BA or AY. |
Originally Posted by LH2004
(Post 14346898)
How could a human being possibly look forward to that?
I like vacations. I like visiting new places. I put up with flying as a cost of getting somewhere. Sitting in coach is decidedly uncomfortable. Sitting in first class is much less uncomfortable than sitting in coach, but still massively less enjoyable than time on my own couch and bed. The food in first is not so bad, but not as nice as being able to go to my own kitchen or any restaurant I want. The airline staff I have to deal with are not so nasty as in back, but still mostly not people I would want to deal with more than I had to. I fly in first when I can, including sometimes paying a lot more in money or miles, but don't confuse satisfaction at the coach passengers' sneers as they walk past with actual enjoyment. Add the excitement of travel and it's a winner for me. But then, I travel purely for pleasure, and not for business. If I did that, I probably wouldn't like it. |
Originally Posted by PaulMSN
(Post 14349671)
... the food I get on a plane up front is better than I make at home. Sometimes even the stuff in coach is better -- I am not a good cook.
OK, now that's very scary. |
Stoughton, I understand your reasoning. Here's a couple of quick comments:
Some say, "try everything once." By using info on FT, it becomes much easier for many more people to try F at least once. I know that probably doesn't provide a satisfying response to the implied scoffing at daring to think about using miles for Y awards, but maybe it'll give someone something different to consider. My next comment is really a question. I wonder if you'd care to share with the world what exactly it is that you so strongly dislike about flying? Is it claustrophobia, fear of crashing, germs, unnatural environment, dislike of people, dislike of the possible boredom, and/or something else? I don't look forward to flying either, mostly because of the idea that I know I'll be stuck on that metal tube for x number of hours, and there's nothing I can do about it... sort of a loss of control issue. Last comment: I think the biggest part of F is the 'perks' on the ground. First, one doesn't need to worry about food before flying because the lounges provide much better food for free than the overpriced meals provided in the airport. Second, priority check-in and security can save tons of time. Third, you get off of the plane before anyone else. I was shocked at how much time that saved. Then, there are a lot of time savings at the luggage carousel (priority tagging) and then getting through customs/immigration. All of this and more has certainly been well documented previously, but I was shocked at how nice air travel could be. But, as others have said, it comes down to what one values. If you value multiple trips due to your situation, then that's a great choice. If you have limited vacation time, want to experience luxury, etc., then F or C is what you value. Thanks again everyone for an excellent philosophical discussion without the BS and petty arguments found on many other forums or site comments. |
Originally Posted by zbenye
(Post 14347794)
I just don't see F worth any additional expenditure. But then I've never flown Int'l F on a 3-cabin, so I may just be fooling myself... like many here said, ignorance may be bliss.
I'm planning on going back to China next month (with miles) and am having a hard time overcoming the urge to spring for F, in spite of the fact that I know I'd survive in C (or even Y). |
Originally Posted by uiucsb
(Post 14350478)
Some say, "try everything once." By using info on FT, it becomes much easier for many more people to try F at least once. I know that probably doesn't provide a satisfying response to the implied scoffing at daring to think about using miles for Y awards, but maybe it'll give someone something different to consider.
My next comment is really a question. I wonder if you'd care to share with the world what exactly it is that you so strongly dislike about flying? Is it claustrophobia, fear of crashing, germs, unnatural environment, dislike of people, dislike of the possible boredom, and/or something else? I don't look forward to flying either, mostly because of the idea that I know I'll be stuck on that metal tube for x number of hours, and there's nothing I can do about it... sort of a loss of control issue. For our next flight, I'm planning to being a netbook or some other video device with my own movies. Hopefully that'll help some |
Originally Posted by wise2u
(Post 14343709)
It needs to be said that first class and business seats are extremely overpriced...airlines charge close to 10k because companies buy the seats and write it off their taxes as operating expenses. An individual would have to be rich or pampered to pay 5 times the coach rate for front cabin amenities. I agree it comes down to personal taste, but if money or points are no concern then of course you will take the added comforts everytime. I can make a comparison to cruising...if you start with inside cabins, the cruise is still great. If you ever enjoy a balcony cabin, going back to inside is tough indeed.
Dont take offense FTers but you accumulate airline miles through work or promotions or even milage runs to keep your balances high enough where spending points on the minor luxuries of first class seems like the best use for them. For those of us who don't travel for business and have to hit every promo to get 100k miles per year the desicion is more difficult. Forgive the blasphamy but I have to say it....air travel is just transportation. Just because you get the first class treatment (treated like a rich person as the term implies) free booze in a quiet lounge and more on the plane, you get to board first, and other than the lie down seats on limited routes/planes a you get a little more comfortable seat with extra (a foot?) legroom, a more attentive FA, more room to store your crap and an amenity bag with pjs and a toothbrush. these things are all distractions to the fact, that like the coach passengers who pay substantially less cash/points, you are herded like cattle into a tube to breathe recycled air for an extended amount of time. We all wind up in the same destination at the same time, you just pay a lot more to do it in a little more comfort. (and dont tell me its that big of a difference, unless you fly lear jets and private charters) I've flown in first and the big difference is the vacation for you starts when you get to the airport, for the rest of us it starts after we leave it. The people with limited cash/points like me would rather fly free twice to hawaii in coach than once in first. Personally we have done this 4 times, even after getting bumped and upgraded on one leg once. I would like to do it up front but without megapoints I cant bring myself to empty my account for 1 flight. We have time to take 4 or 5 vacations a year and flying free makes them nicer when we get there (nicer resort, better excursions and resturants, more money for souvineers, ect.) I am tempted to take our next trip to hawaii (10hrs from ATL) in coach going since we are excited to be going and with the time change it seems early when we get there, and return in business or first costing 60k for the trip-- doing a half splurge and making the depressing flight home more bearable. Most of our other flights are less than 5 hours so coach is acceptable for the savings to us. heck I sleep through half the flights we take, why pay more to sleep a few feet forward? It comes down to what you can afford and what you are accustomed to using points for. if we started getting used to upgrades, or take a few trips to Europe in first class we may never look back either, but until then if coach for free gets us there twice we can make due with it. |
I like flying. I'll even take a longer routing to take advantage of the in-flight services as well as getting some sleep. Personally, I'd rather sit in the CX F lav than in CX Y (at least you get 2 windows to look out of in the lav :-) ) so it's business or first for me.
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Originally Posted by gdaily
(Post 14347310)
I had a biz ticket from Frankfurt to Los Angeles, on an overbooked flight. I was offered €1500 Euro to downgrade to Economy (a nice seat by the emergency exit, thanks).
Originally Posted by Stoughton
(Post 14350967)
...but when the only thing you can see is the cabin and a poorly chosen movie, I run out of options quickly.
BTW, on our last trip in BA F, I was asked if I'd like a drink. I suggested Johnny Walker Black. He replied, "I'm sorry, we only have Blue on this flight." It quickly became clear that he was not a scotch drinker, 'cuz he asked if JM Blue was any good. :) |
Originally Posted by BigLar
(Post 14353551)
Uh, you are aware, aren't you, that in F (and C) you normally have a very wide selection of movies, TV, music, etc. Lots of things to occupy your mind while you're skimming the stratosphere.
I will admit to killing some time playing Tetris but having a cpl drinks in me made it more entertaining than usual As Imentioned above, on the next flight I simply need to bring my own video player. I had my mp3 on these flights but I rarely listen to music so that only goes so far. Plus it just makes me wish I was at the gym instead of on the plane :) |
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