Miles Ethics Question
 

I am curious as to where folks will land on this one.

I recently received a receipt from a hotel for a stay in my name for which I was credited with points in the hotel's FF program. I have never been to this hotel, and upon calling, I learned that someone else with the same name as me checked into the hotel. At check-in, the other person didn't know their program number so the desk clerk looked it up, but inserted my program instead of the actual customer's. The points are enough to get me a free room which might cost $200 if I paid for it.

Several months have passed and given what came up during my call, it may be that the real customer travels a lot and has overlooked the points missing in their account.

So the question is: Should I call the program and point out the error?

And for those who say no, would your answer change if this instead involved $200 credited to my checking account?

When you called the first time, did you point out that you didn't stay there and that you didn't earn the points? If you did and the hotel still didn't do anything, AFAIC, you have fulfilled your obligation. If they only told you that they looked up "your" number but you didn't tell them that it wasn't actually you, you owe them a chance to sort it out.

No. In fact, if it were a bank, I'd insist that they do it. Money errors can be a nightmare to sort out.

Mike

Mike

If you found a wallet with $200, would you try to find the owner?

Personally, I would send an email to their customer service detailing the situation and asking them to investigate. After that, it would be out of my hands. Most likely they will never remove the points... but I would have no problem if they did.

That is an inappropriate question. Of course one would. Of course the wallet would likely have the owner's address in it. Otherwise, I'd give the wallet to the police, who have the resources to find the owner.

In the original poster's (OP) case, s/he does not have any contact information, so s/he cannot try to find the guest with who rightfully earned the frequent stay points.

The OP's obligation only extends to (1) contacting the hotel (which has been done) and (2) contacting the frequent stay program. Beyond that, what more can be done?

this is exactly what i did when 53,000 starwood points appeared in an account that normally carries a balance of 0. i got a nice reply thanking me for my honesty, and the points disappeared a week later.

after all, who knows when it (thousands of points missing) might happen to me?

Of course you need to contact the hotel program office. You probaby knew the answer before you asked the questions. Having ethics is something like being pregant; you are or aren't; you have them or don't. After you call the program you have fulfilled your requirement and will sleep better at night.

I would, and in fact have, returned points/miles in this situation in the past.

^

Doing the right thing often gets you bupkis...in a material sense.

But, it's the karmic that matters anyway--which is why the OP asked the question, right?

A tad simplistic, and far from reality. :rolleyes:

That's a very particular case: if you know or should have known that money deposited into your bank account isn't yours and you take it out anyway, it's stealing from the bank and you can go to jail for it. This has happened to more people than you might think (although usually for more than $200). Nobody's going to jail over extra FF miles that just appear in your account.

And, I do think an earlier poster's claim that ethics are like being pregnant is overly simplistic. While one should always have ethics, it's not always clear what the ethical thing to do is.

If it were to happen to me, I would write a letter to the frequent guest program giving the facts as you know them and then be done with it. If you don't hear back from them, and a reasonable period of time passes (perhaps 6 months or whatever amount of time the program allows for missing stay credits), I'd consider them bonus points and spendable.

Ditto

Once, I have received a check from a company that owed me $280. The check was for $36k. I called them right away and sent the check back. A year later they have sent me a letter, that they sent me $36k by mistake and if I don't return it, they will sue me. I have called back and clarified.

I agree. Ethics is often subject to interpretation and you may interpret ethics differently than I. The OP's original question is appropriate.

similar question/situation:
I got bumped from a UA award flight (cancellation) and onto a DL flight under Y. I claimed ~3600 miles from Delta. I felt bad afterwards, and haven't used them yet.

+1

Completely different situation than the OP and no different than earning miles on a ticket purchased for you by your employer, friend, or family.

I have to disagree with your response and JonathanIT's describing my view as simplistic. That is unless you also consider comments such as, "Do what you know is right"; "The Golden Rule"; "What does your gut tell you to do", also simplistic. It is usually easy to tell what is ethical, it's sometimes hard to do the ethical thing. I've found that when people ask, they're looking for someone to agree with what they want to do, which isn't always the ethical thing. FWIW.

Gary - I don't think you believe that under no circumstances should the OP use the points?
I think the OP is just asking what would be the appropriate / ethical amount of calling / emailing.
Knowing the RIGHT thing to do isn't the same thing as knowing WHAT to do.

A similar situation in a restaurant
 

I recently encountered a similar situation in a local NYC restaurant. I accompanied a friend to a restaurant in his neighborhood. During the meal, the waitress forgot to add one item to the bill.

As we were getting ready to go to the cashier to pay, I said to my friend that we could simply tell the owner and our bill could then be corrected (upwards).

My friend told me that the owners of the restaurant were very strict with the employees, and treated them harshly. If we pointed out the mistake, the owners would likely suspect that the employee was deliberately giving away food to friends and strangers alike. Our innocent pointing out of an error in the bill would likely be seen as denouncing the employee.

At that point, I kept quiet. We paid the bill, and departed. I felt comfortable not giving the owners any ammunition to use in badgering a hard working employee.

Sometimes, silence is best.

Very true.

The ethical thing to do is to point out the error. But, I think there should be a way to do it so that the good Samaritan is not put through hoops of bureaucracy. After all, you are not the person who made the error. So, I would write a letter, send it to the hotel manager (or corporte office), and be very clear about what the error is. Email is probably sufficient, but the best CYA is to send it with a return receipt. After this proper notification, the responsibility lays at the hotel management to make the correction. In the letter, I might even add a stipulation that if they do not make the correction in 6 months, then these extra points belong to your account.

It's easy to be ethical; what's hard to do is to get the right thing done.

If an extra $200 is credited to my checking account, I would notify the bank in the same way, by writing, but I would not stipulate that the money would belong to me after a certain period of time. The reason is simple--banks can go after you in nasty ways and they will get their money back, especially when they made the error. And don't expect a heartfelt thank-you either.

shabster - In my first post (#7) I suggested the appropriate action would be to contact the hotel point company, they could then take the appropriate action. If they leave the points fine, if they take them, that's also fine. I would wait a bit before I'd consider using them, probably 30 days or so. After a certain point one would have to remember that x points aren't really mine, and that's not realistic.

same here. returned 60k miles to AA that they mistakenly credited me. if they had argued I would have given up but felt calling to point out the error (in my favor) was simply the right thing to do. character has cost.

Not too long ago the waiter at dinner put the wrong bottle of wine on our tab. Things were a bit chaotic at one point and we got the other table's wine on our bill. It was ~$30 different in price in my favor. I didn't hesitate at all in pointing out the mistake to the waiter and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

In the OP's case it is not particularly clear what exactly happened during the original call. It sounds like they called the hotel, not the program, so the audit trail is somewhat stilted. I'd call it in and point out that the points aren't mine. You may not get to keep them but I don't think it is at all vague in terms of right/wrong. If the original call was to the program office and they let the points stay then the points are yours.

I'm also not sure what the difference is between this case and finding $200 cash in a wallet. If that's what the points are worth and that's what the cash is worth what's the difference? You may not know exactly where to return them to but you know that they aren't yours and you know that there is a way to work towards getting them to the correct home. You don't have to complete the return (assuming you ultimately cannot) but moving in that direction is the right way to go.

Thanks for all the responses. I was curious about who would chime in since doing nothing in my fact setting would be (in my view) far less egregious than actions freely admitted to on a daily basis on FT, Fat Wallet and many other places. Note that I was not curious about what I should do (see below) but about what mix of folks would respond.

It turned out that just about everyone responding took the high road, advising to report the error. Yet there's people who buy on one credit card to earn miles, then return the item on another to avoid returning the miles. There's folks who repeatedly sign-up for bonuses available only once to new customers using multiple email accounts. I wonder why those folks didn't respond to my question. Maybe the word "Ethics" in the title scared them off. It seems to me that some of this stuff is a fine line, some is a matter of personal opinion but some of it is just wrong. Why is it that people who wouldn't dream of shoplifting don't think twice about other, equally wrong behavior?

When I spoke to the hotel, I told them about the error but they said they can only add points, not make corrections. I then called the program itself and the CSR, somewhat amazed at my call, said that they would not initiate a correction and that they would also not make a correction to my account even if the person who stayed at the hotel found the error. I also had a line on who that person might be, so I sent them an email but I haven't heard back yet. I have the CSR's name and I won't bother with further backing. If their agent says to enjoy my good luck, I'll do just that.

I would bet the folks who suggested you take the high road wouldn't do the things you mention either. Although I have seen them discussed here on FT, I don't believe most FT'ers resort to such questionable practices in general.

I would attempt to return both to their rightful owner.

The only difference is that I'd make a little more effort in the case of the wallet because of the huge inconvenience it is for an individual if he/she doesn't get his ID, credit cards, etc. back. I'd be willing to invest more of my time to save someone else a large amount of time.

The owner may or may not care much about a small or moderate amount of cash inside, but I'd know he/she cared about everything else. I think my own empathy for the situation would drive me to reunite the wallet with its owner.

I'd feel a little empathy for someone having to hassle with a missing stay request, but my own level of vigor in the pursuit to reunite owner and points would be less. Probably a phone call or an email alerting the hotel to the problem, inviting them to take back the points and give them to the actual guest.

+1...Whenever someone starts a thread thinking they've found that "loophole" (buy/return schemes), the vast majority of responses strongly condemn the action. Usually it's someone newer to the forum...maybe a bit new to the mileage game.

Sign-up bonuses are a bit of a gray area because we're frequently bombarded with direct mail for additional cards with bonuses. A lot of people churn cards. I don't think that act is unethical in and of itself. The banks have enough data in their possession to control access to credit. It's their choice how they act upon it. If a consumer is providing false information to obtain credit, that's a different story - unethical and probably illegal.

Last year 25,000 points showed up in my Membership Rewards account.I call American Express and told them.Thier responce was "Thanks for your honesty,however enjoy the points"

In this particular situation the "ethical" thing to do is quite apparent. That being said, your reductionist view is simplistic.
Let me pose a classic dilemma where there is ethical ambiguity. Your wife needs medicine and you don't have insurance. You can't afford the medicine from the pharmacy. You decide to steal it to save her life. Now hopefully you won't dismiss such a scenario as unrealistic and shirk the task of evaluating ethical conundrum. I hope you can at least see that there are examples abound where an analogy to pregnancy comes up a bit short.
As for the golden rule, does this apply unconditionally? Is it OK to confine a killer because you wouldn't want to be confined? Is it ever OK to use abusive or torturous tactics to obtain information? While I believe I know what may be right I can see there are many areas where ethical clarity is elusive.

I think there are two totally different issues here.

If the bank gave you an extra $200 when they balanced they would be off $200 and somebody would possibly lose their job for being off that much (at least at the bank I was at depending on how long they had been there). The $200 is a real thing, it can't be in two places at once. And yes, I would report that to the bank, and have in the past when they credited me something I shouldn't have had.

Points are totally different. They are not real. The person probably called and said "hey, I stayed here and I didn't get my points" and they said "gee, no you didn't, so here you go sir" and they credit his account. There's no bucket of points on the other side that won't balance, points are not backed up by anything.

I'm assuming you already mentioned the first time you contacted them that they were not your points, so I think you have already contacted them and pointed out the error. I think you have done what would be expected of you.

I would not pick up a wallet I found in most situtations anymore. Places like New York set them out as traps and if you don't happen to see the cop hiding behind the column, as soon as you move with the wallet they come and arrest you for not turning it into the cop you didn't see (really they have done that to people). If I was home most certainly I would contact the person and turn in the wallet or drop it off at the police station.

I have also handed over somebody's paycheck money in the money envelope on the floor of a deli I frequent, $800 or so two weeks before Christmas, so you know it was somebody's bonus money, the guy came back looking for it (free sandwich for me next time!)

I just don't see points the same as money, since you have already informed them they were not yours.

And yet, stealing the medicine almost certainly is not the only option available to you. :-:

I think the obvious thing to do is report the mistake to the hotel and let them straighten it out.
Chances(as previous posters have mentioned) are the person missing the points has already complained about not recieving them or doesn't even notice he missing them. Believe it or not there are an awful lot of people out there that don't pay a whole lot of attention to points/miles. I know some of the sales guys at work who spend upwards of 200 nights a year in hotels don't have a clue how many points they have or even how many are earned per stay.

As for comparing it to finding 200.00 in your checking account thats just silly.

Why is it silly? I think that there are many, many people who manage their money even worth then points and don't have a clue how much money, or debt, they really have. So, lets say a bank by mistake deposits their $200 in your account...

You posted a question/scenario and sought advice, and many of us gave you suggestions. There was never any question that you should inform the hotel management about the error. However, you then proceeded to pontificate and compare miles-seeking activities to stealing. Unless you can name specific person and activities, please refrain from making your assumptions about miles enthusiasts. Sure, I don't approve some activities, but I also think the companies that repeatedly issue bonus codes without strict limits are also willingly encouraging sign-ups.

+1. Today, everybody is so busy...how diligent are you really at looking at every one of your financial statements?

I try to - we attempt to focus all credit card spending on two cards, which helps. But still, sometimes I'll find an error or questionable charge in there - 2-3 months after it happens. I'm sure I have missed something before.

If a bank dumped two hundred bucks into my account by mistake, I would like to think I'd eventually find it and wonder what that line item was, but I might just assume that somebody wrote us a paper check for something...I don't know.

Just this morning, I found a Cat 3 1 night award redemption from my HHonors account. The transaction posted on October 15th and I have no idea why. I didn't redeem an award - but there it is, minus 25,000 points. I've emailed them now - hopefully it's a simple error that can be corrected. (Or maybe it's this situation, and one of you people got a free Cat 3 night!! ;))

Well said!

Well I guess I failed the test. The same thing happened to me earlier this year triggering a free night promo, which I then used (the actual points were pretty minimal). I feel even better about using the room after seeing what happened to OP when he went out of his way to report the situation. Though I am appreciative of the explanation (my name is somewhat common) as I was puzzled by the mistake.

Coincidentally, we found a wallet with over $1,200 in cash. We actually drove to the address listed on the driver's license (3 miles from where the wallet was found), knocked on the door, and was informed that the person moved over a year ago.

I then proceeded to Google the individual, and based on the information in the wallet (it did not contain his own business card), determined a possible email address that would be of the person in question.

I emailed the individual, confirming his identity and indeed he lost his wallet, and arranged for him to pick it up.

While part of me wonders how many MR's that wallet would have paid for, the majority of me knows I did the right thing... even above and beyond by tracking the individual down.

Anyway, back to the original question... as long as you made a good faith effort in informing the hotel, the rest is up to them to retract or leave alone the points.

Now, in regards to churning credit cards and such, I believe they are completely unrelated in practice and ethics. While it may not be the way the program was intended, it is completely within a company's control to prevent abuse.

I have found 3 wallets over time. The first one I found when at college at Penn State. The wallet had a student id and maybe $8 in it. I called the guy who lost the wallet and told him to meet me at a certian corner at 4pm..he showed up 15 minutes late and just said thanks dude...I was a little annoyed that the guy showed up late and didn't really seem to care but I knew it was the right thing to do.

The second wallet I found was in NYC had maybe $80 in it and just a business card. I called the business card and it was the guys son who lost it. He asked me to call his son directly which I really felt the father should have given me the sons address and I would have been done with it. When I finally called the kid he was like ok yeah I lost it and he seemed very ungrateful. I was heading back to Jersey that night so at my expense mailed the contents of the wallet....2 weeks later I get a huge thank you basket with cookies and cheese which blew my mind. So I guess you never know.


The 3rd wallet I found was on the street near a car. It had a license in it and some credit cards. I called the lady and she came to my home to pick it up. I think she was drunk when she came to my house or at least on something..thankful someone else drove her there...anyhoo :rolleyes: