[prem fare gone]: *A US-Europe in Summer from $248 RT in Biz
Mar 8, 2021, 7:48 am
#346
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: New York City
Posts: 801
Let's play a game...
I'm not a lawyer nor did I stay at a holiday Inn Express yesterday. 😉😂
99.9% of flyertalkers will not go through with this but if you have some spare dollars and want to learn more about the legal system and how airlines respond to them it might be worth an investment.
Let's look at some options TAP is not in bankruptcy unlike airlines such as Aeromexico so Small Claims might be a valid route.
They don't seem to have a office in New York City, my usual place but they have an office in New Jersey specifically in Newark so you might be able to initiate a New Jersey Small Claims Court filing.
From the attached link it seems that you can sue for up to 3,000 and did cost $42 to file a lawsuit.
Where do we start? There are several posts in this thread with Instagram Twitter advertisements announcing a sale starting at $299 for medium and long distance business class travel.
TAP has historically priced a variety of airfares at very low rates in both economy and business class there are a variety of posts on FlyerTalk, social media and blogs indicating airfares in the sub $100 for one way economy class travel as well as sub 700 dollars for Boston to Lisbon/Ponta Delgada on several occasions as well as sub 1500 from Chicago to Bilbao and Seville.
So there goes the argument that business class tickets must cost over x amount of dollars.
Now the next point is you are a Savvy frequent flyer who is interested in a personal level on airfares and actively seek Fair deals for travel for yourself or for others.
Over the course of your searches and by reading publicly available information you came across an airfare for sale to Europe before September 30th.
As we are in a pandemic of public knowledge and borders to Europe are closed right now for non citizens/ residents and there are many additional restrictions for entry into particular countries together with a massive decline in business travel, with frequent media stories of only dozens of passengers being transported on routes such as New York to London a well informed traveler could be led to the conclusion that transatlantic travel is extremely depressed.
It is also publicly known that TAP has financial difficulties has received bailouts from local governments and is actively seeking to sell tickets during this pandemic to stay afloat.
As such it is understandable that the airline initiated a short-term sale between the US and different points within the European Union in order to foment travel in their premium cabins which have been depressed by the implosion in business travel by selling these tickets at a cost that is marginal to the airline.
Based upon other airfares that are publicly available both posted by this airline and other airlines a savvy traveler who is knowledgeable about airfare sales from a personal level of interest could assume together with the advertisements that TAP was having a promotional sale.
Leave it to the defendant to prove that this was not a promotional sale that they have not sold airfares in the past at values of sub $600 for travel across the Atlantic and provide all information related to this airfare.
Prior to submitting this for small claims I would suggest filing a DOT response with some verbiage similar to the above paragraphs to see if TAP decides to comply.
Once again this is not legal advice just how I would approach it if I were involved in this deal.
I'm not a lawyer nor did I stay at a holiday Inn Express yesterday. 😉😂
99.9% of flyertalkers will not go through with this but if you have some spare dollars and want to learn more about the legal system and how airlines respond to them it might be worth an investment.
Let's look at some options TAP is not in bankruptcy unlike airlines such as Aeromexico so Small Claims might be a valid route.
They don't seem to have a office in New York City, my usual place but they have an office in New Jersey specifically in Newark so you might be able to initiate a New Jersey Small Claims Court filing.
Spoiler
From the attached link it seems that you can sue for up to 3,000 and did cost $42 to file a lawsuit.
Where do we start? There are several posts in this thread with Instagram Twitter advertisements announcing a sale starting at $299 for medium and long distance business class travel.
TAP has historically priced a variety of airfares at very low rates in both economy and business class there are a variety of posts on FlyerTalk, social media and blogs indicating airfares in the sub $100 for one way economy class travel as well as sub 700 dollars for Boston to Lisbon/Ponta Delgada on several occasions as well as sub 1500 from Chicago to Bilbao and Seville.
So there goes the argument that business class tickets must cost over x amount of dollars.
Now the next point is you are a Savvy frequent flyer who is interested in a personal level on airfares and actively seek Fair deals for travel for yourself or for others.
Over the course of your searches and by reading publicly available information you came across an airfare for sale to Europe before September 30th.
As we are in a pandemic of public knowledge and borders to Europe are closed right now for non citizens/ residents and there are many additional restrictions for entry into particular countries together with a massive decline in business travel, with frequent media stories of only dozens of passengers being transported on routes such as New York to London a well informed traveler could be led to the conclusion that transatlantic travel is extremely depressed.
It is also publicly known that TAP has financial difficulties has received bailouts from local governments and is actively seeking to sell tickets during this pandemic to stay afloat.
As such it is understandable that the airline initiated a short-term sale between the US and different points within the European Union in order to foment travel in their premium cabins which have been depressed by the implosion in business travel by selling these tickets at a cost that is marginal to the airline.
Based upon other airfares that are publicly available both posted by this airline and other airlines a savvy traveler who is knowledgeable about airfare sales from a personal level of interest could assume together with the advertisements that TAP was having a promotional sale.
Leave it to the defendant to prove that this was not a promotional sale that they have not sold airfares in the past at values of sub $600 for travel across the Atlantic and provide all information related to this airfare.
Prior to submitting this for small claims I would suggest filing a DOT response with some verbiage similar to the above paragraphs to see if TAP decides to comply.
Once again this is not legal advice just how I would approach it if I were involved in this deal.
However... the charges posted to my account and I've yet to receive a refund. That's a big no no in my book. I'm going to give it, say, seven business days for the refund to post. If it doesn't, I'm going to skip the chargeback, and put my substantial litigation experience to good use. Some airlines will fight, fight, fight (looking at you, AA, even if I did ultimately win... twice), while many other airlines will settle or default. For me, the commencement fee in small claims (less than $50 usually) is certainly worth the price of admission -- and the entertainment.
Let's see how this shakes out.
Mar 8, 2021, 8:41 am
#347
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Global
Posts: 5,998
Seems to me a simple DOT rule would solve this for US-based flyers.
For all fares to/from/transiting the USA:
If the airline believes a fare is in error, they have 72 hours to cancel the fare.
The airline must state they believe it is an error and must initiate a refund within one week.
If they do not cancel within 72-hours, the fare shall be deemed correct and they must honor it like any other fare covered by the CoC.
Create some standard verbiage and require it to be in the CoC.
Pretty simple and fair.
For all fares to/from/transiting the USA:
If the airline believes a fare is in error, they have 72 hours to cancel the fare.
The airline must state they believe it is an error and must initiate a refund within one week.
If they do not cancel within 72-hours, the fare shall be deemed correct and they must honor it like any other fare covered by the CoC.
Create some standard verbiage and require it to be in the CoC.
Pretty simple and fair.
Mar 8, 2021, 10:47 am
#348
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: IAD
Posts: 735
I mostly agree with you. But I think the consumer backout period and the airline backout period should be the same, so 24 hours. Unless they want to allow us 72 hours as well.
Mar 8, 2021, 11:27 am
#351
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 222
I already spent 20 minutes filing DOT complaint, chargeback and CFPB against credit card company to cover all bases. Let the games begin. If refund shows up I’ll cancel the complaints. Otherwise they take time so better get started early in my personal experience.
Last edited by Basanez; Mar 8, 2021 at 11:59 am
Mar 8, 2021, 12:18 pm
#352
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Global
Posts: 5,998
I did the chargebacks with the credit cards as well. If you try to request a refund through TAP they force it to the trip credit. My guess is if you check 'agree' and click through you would be bound to the trip credit.
Mar 8, 2021, 12:47 pm
#353
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 222
I don’t even bother calling TAP anymore. In my experience the reps are never familiar with US regulations, they never admit the 24 hour free cancellation period and they offer voucher, or refund in 12 weeks which is the time limit for chargeback in most cases. So I just file charge backs asap and let it play out. Mind you, I’m still silver with them, and when I call the silver desk, they treat me like a pest because I’m calling about a matter that’s not related to miles and transfer me to the general desk 
Mar 8, 2021, 1:43 pm
#355
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 205
You're right. I just checked again and the charges showed up again and have posted. I guess time to call my CC.
Mar 8, 2021, 2:15 pm
#357
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: KHOU/KIAH
Programs: AA EXP | Marriott Bonvoy Titanium| Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 11,247
Seems to me a simple DOT rule would solve this for US-based flyers.
For all fares to/from/transiting the USA:
If the airline believes a fare is in error, they have 72 hours to cancel the fare.
The airline must state they believe it is an error and must initiate a refund within one week.
If they do not cancel within 72-hours, the fare shall be deemed correct and they must honor it like any other fare covered by the CoC.
Create some standard verbiage and require it to be in the CoC.
Pretty simple and fair.
For all fares to/from/transiting the USA:
If the airline believes a fare is in error, they have 72 hours to cancel the fare.
The airline must state they believe it is an error and must initiate a refund within one week.
If they do not cancel within 72-hours, the fare shall be deemed correct and they must honor it like any other fare covered by the CoC.
Create some standard verbiage and require it to be in the CoC.
Pretty simple and fair.
Airline pricing is not simple. Expecting people to know what's a mistake when you sell valid fares at equivalent price is ridiculous.
Mar 8, 2021, 2:17 pm
#358
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 222
I disputed it online and was able to call right after to confirm the submission was received. Not sure what’s going on your case but the app usually has that functionality. Otherwise you might want to call again and see if you get somebody who can help you.
Mar 8, 2021, 2:19 pm
#359
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 205
Are you only disputing one charge?
I'm now thinking maybe I'll wait 2-4 days to see if TAP issues the refund on their own?
Mar 8, 2021, 2:42 pm
#360
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 222
I bought tickets for 4 passengers and they each posted as separate transactions. The rep said because it's more than 2 transactions I'm disputing, I have to do it via fax or snail mail. ... what year is this??
Are you only disputing one charge?
I'm now thinking maybe I'll wait 2-4 days to see if TAP issues the refund on their own?
Are you only disputing one charge?
I'm now thinking maybe I'll wait 2-4 days to see if TAP issues the refund on their own?