Mar 15, 2020, 10:29 am
Last edit by: Maestro Ramen
FARE RULES:
I pulled down the DL fare rules (these are BUD-SEA but they all appeared nearly identical). I posted them on a share. We can easily grab the AF and KL variants if others need those.
Q: This is a fully flexible fare with free changes. Does that mean I can change the flight dates as I want without paying anything extra?
A: No. The airline simply doesn't charge a change fee. But depending on the fare rules, you will still need to pay the difference to the new price.
Q: But I read that some people could change their flights for free...?
A: The rules for this fare (linked to above) specify that historical pricing shall be used if either at least one flight from the ticket has been taken or the outbound remains the same. In other words, in order to be able to change your flights for free, you must have flown at least one flight from your booking. Otherwise, you can only change the inbound. The outbound has to remain the same or you will be charged the fare difference.
Q: Can I change the rest of the itinerary after flying the first segment without any other charges or additional fare differences?
A: Yes this is possible according to the fare rules where after completing the first segment, you can change the rest of the flights for free (with the condition that the same fare class is available- I-class - in this case. According to the fare rules, after flying the FIRST segment (in the case here BUD-XXX) the historical fare is used. Possible to use the first stopover at AMS or CDG (see post #830).
Q: But some people could change their outbound flights for free!
A: They got lucky. It was probably a bug on the website/in the app. When no flight from the ticket has been flown, the fare rules do not allow changing the outbound without repricing.
Q: Ok, ok, so I can only change the inbound for free. How do I do that?
A: You search for availability for alternative flights on ITA Matrix using "F ..I2FFHU" in the extension codes. You must search for round trip flights as this is a round trip fare. Then you ignore the outbound result (as long as you haven't flown at least one flight from your ticket) and just try to rebook your inbound on the website/app.
Q: I have found availability on ITA Matrix, but the app/website doesn't show me those flights!
A: Keep trying. Sometimes you may have to serach in a different way (split up the searches, e.g. HNL-LAX and LAX-BUD), sometimes you just have to repeat the search several times. But that's no guarantee the desired results will turn up (and without repricing).
Q: It doesn't work. Can I just call the airline to make the changes?
A: Please don't unless you need to. Calling can increase the risk for all of us that they'll change their mind and disallow all further changes, or simply cancel everyone's tickets. However, as this fare has now been running for months and has seen many calls made about it, it is reasonable to expect that calling will not cause issues at this stage. As best practice, avoid attracting attention on the low price paid, and avoid making additional demands or tempting your luck. Remember you get to fly a J ticket for the cost of a Y fare.
Q: How many times can I make changes?
A: In theory, as often as you like, but you can't make more than two changes online/in the app. After that, you'd have to call, which we are trying to avoid.
Q: I've changed my mind. Can I get a refund?
A: Yes, the fare was fully refundable. Just contact the airline or fill out a refund form online.
Q: Due to Coronavirus, I need to extend my travel plan beyond the original expiry date. What can I do?
A: For Delta tickets (starting with 006) you can travel at any point until December 2022. Changes to flights within a 10 month window can be done at any point on the app, following the rules above. If you want to fly later than 10 months from now, you can call Delta and ask them to "park" your ticket. You will receive a ticket number that ties to an eCredit which can be used later to buy tickets. As long as you keep the original itinerary, or if you have flown at least a segment, you will not be charged a fare difference. Bear in mind that the eCredit may only be refundable if your original flight was cancelled (which is very likely in those day and times). Note that only Delta in the US are able to do this so do not call the EU numbers (use Skype to save money on international calls). According to user feedback: iMessage agents seem to also be able to do this, but twitter agents not.
I pulled down the DL fare rules (these are BUD-SEA but they all appeared nearly identical). I posted them on a share. We can easily grab the AF and KL variants if others need those.
Q: This is a fully flexible fare with free changes. Does that mean I can change the flight dates as I want without paying anything extra?
A: No. The airline simply doesn't charge a change fee. But depending on the fare rules, you will still need to pay the difference to the new price.
Q: But I read that some people could change their flights for free...?
A: The rules for this fare (linked to above) specify that historical pricing shall be used if either at least one flight from the ticket has been taken or the outbound remains the same. In other words, in order to be able to change your flights for free, you must have flown at least one flight from your booking. Otherwise, you can only change the inbound. The outbound has to remain the same or you will be charged the fare difference.
Q: Can I change the rest of the itinerary after flying the first segment without any other charges or additional fare differences?
A: Yes this is possible according to the fare rules where after completing the first segment, you can change the rest of the flights for free (with the condition that the same fare class is available- I-class - in this case. According to the fare rules, after flying the FIRST segment (in the case here BUD-XXX) the historical fare is used. Possible to use the first stopover at AMS or CDG (see post #830).
Q: But some people could change their outbound flights for free!
A: They got lucky. It was probably a bug on the website/in the app. When no flight from the ticket has been flown, the fare rules do not allow changing the outbound without repricing.
Q: Ok, ok, so I can only change the inbound for free. How do I do that?
A: You search for availability for alternative flights on ITA Matrix using "F ..I2FFHU" in the extension codes. You must search for round trip flights as this is a round trip fare. Then you ignore the outbound result (as long as you haven't flown at least one flight from your ticket) and just try to rebook your inbound on the website/app.
Q: I have found availability on ITA Matrix, but the app/website doesn't show me those flights!
A: Keep trying. Sometimes you may have to serach in a different way (split up the searches, e.g. HNL-LAX and LAX-BUD), sometimes you just have to repeat the search several times. But that's no guarantee the desired results will turn up (and without repricing).
Q: It doesn't work. Can I just call the airline to make the changes?
A: Please don't unless you need to. Calling can increase the risk for all of us that they'll change their mind and disallow all further changes, or simply cancel everyone's tickets. However, as this fare has now been running for months and has seen many calls made about it, it is reasonable to expect that calling will not cause issues at this stage. As best practice, avoid attracting attention on the low price paid, and avoid making additional demands or tempting your luck. Remember you get to fly a J ticket for the cost of a Y fare.
Q: How many times can I make changes?
A: In theory, as often as you like, but you can't make more than two changes online/in the app. After that, you'd have to call, which we are trying to avoid.
Q: I've changed my mind. Can I get a refund?
A: Yes, the fare was fully refundable. Just contact the airline or fill out a refund form online.
Q: Due to Coronavirus, I need to extend my travel plan beyond the original expiry date. What can I do?
A: For Delta tickets (starting with 006) you can travel at any point until December 2022. Changes to flights within a 10 month window can be done at any point on the app, following the rules above. If you want to fly later than 10 months from now, you can call Delta and ask them to "park" your ticket. You will receive a ticket number that ties to an eCredit which can be used later to buy tickets. As long as you keep the original itinerary, or if you have flown at least a segment, you will not be charged a fare difference. Bear in mind that the eCredit may only be refundable if your original flight was cancelled (which is very likely in those day and times). Note that only Delta in the US are able to do this so do not call the EU numbers (use Skype to save money on international calls). According to user feedback: iMessage agents seem to also be able to do this, but twitter agents not.
{prem fare gone}: AF/KL/DL/VS: BUD-US from $750 R/T
Jun 6, 2022, 5:23 am
#3001
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: DXB
Programs: Marriott Titanium Elite, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, BA Silver, A3 Gold, Sixt Diamond
Posts: 2,812
What’s the new waiver code? I gave them all the waiver codes I could find and they said they had all expired. They seemed really confident about that, too. As in “I deal with the bulletins every day, the last one definitely expired in March” sures
EU261 would be for the original 2020 ticket.
EU261 would be for the original 2020 ticket.
Jun 6, 2022, 1:04 pm
#3002
Join Date: Jul 2009
Programs: M&M
Posts: 997
Jun 7, 2022, 1:00 am
#3003
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: DXB
Programs: Marriott Titanium Elite, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, BA Silver, A3 Gold, Sixt Diamond
Posts: 2,812
Oh my god, I got it reissued. I had mentioned bulletin 6 and waiver codes before, but no avail.
But now when I mentioned it again and quoted from the bulletin document directly, suddenly they were friendly and willing to help again!
It was quite the struggle to find availability though… But in the end I lucked out and got Delta One on the A330neo.
Slept only 1-2 hours last night because I couldn’t risk the chat disconnecting… What a ride.
Thank you!
Edit: Here's a tip for those struggling to find availability: Try searching for flights from AMS or CDG. Seems like it's much easier for ITA Matrix to find availability when there are fewer flights involved. Once you know when there's I class availability from/to AMS/CDG, you only need to find availability for the BUD flights, which should be a lot easier. Yes, there could be married segments, but it still made it a lot easier for me to find available seats.
But now when I mentioned it again and quoted from the bulletin document directly, suddenly they were friendly and willing to help again!
It was quite the struggle to find availability though… But in the end I lucked out and got Delta One on the A330neo.
Slept only 1-2 hours last night because I couldn’t risk the chat disconnecting… What a ride.
Thank you!
Edit: Here's a tip for those struggling to find availability: Try searching for flights from AMS or CDG. Seems like it's much easier for ITA Matrix to find availability when there are fewer flights involved. Once you know when there's I class availability from/to AMS/CDG, you only need to find availability for the BUD flights, which should be a lot easier. Yes, there could be married segments, but it still made it a lot easier for me to find available seats.
Last edited by ChocolateFactory; Jun 7, 2022 at 1:25 am
Jun 10, 2022, 2:04 am
#3006
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Netherlands
Programs: Skyteam Elite+ / Hertz PC / Sixt Platinum
Posts: 80
Last edited by XyberBorg; Jun 10, 2022 at 6:13 pm
Jun 13, 2022, 8:15 am
#3007
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: DXB
Programs: Marriott Titanium Elite, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, BA Silver, A3 Gold, Sixt Diamond
Posts: 2,812
Just had a great chat with Delta again, for rebooking a different ticket. Only 7-8 hours of waiting for a ticketing specialist. Then she told me the bulletins had expired. I then sent her links to the bulletins: "Sorry, those are for travel agencies. If you booked through Delta, the bulletins have all expired."
"Please have a look at this other ticket that I got reissued under bulletin 6 a couple days ago"
"They used a travel agency waiver code, they should never have rebooked that for free. The bulletins all expired last year."
I then asked about a rebooking of a different ticket after a schedule change (the original connection was now impossible to make), and if I could add a stopover:
"The fare doesn't allow stopovers"
"I actually have the fare rules in front of me, they say unlimited stopovers are allowed?"
"Your original ticket was with a stopover, what you have now (rebooked under bulletin 6) was changed to an open jaw ticket instead. So you should never have been able to get this rebooked as an even exchange in the first place."
She was literally contradicting herself and making up reasons as we spoke, just so she wouldn't have to help me... Thanks, Delta. I guess it's HUCA and another 8 hours waiting for a ticketing specialist.
"Please have a look at this other ticket that I got reissued under bulletin 6 a couple days ago"
"They used a travel agency waiver code, they should never have rebooked that for free. The bulletins all expired last year."
I then asked about a rebooking of a different ticket after a schedule change (the original connection was now impossible to make), and if I could add a stopover:
"The fare doesn't allow stopovers"
"I actually have the fare rules in front of me, they say unlimited stopovers are allowed?"
"Your original ticket was with a stopover, what you have now (rebooked under bulletin 6) was changed to an open jaw ticket instead. So you should never have been able to get this rebooked as an even exchange in the first place."
She was literally contradicting herself and making up reasons as we spoke, just so she wouldn't have to help me... Thanks, Delta. I guess it's HUCA and another 8 hours waiting for a ticketing specialist.
Jun 13, 2022, 8:47 am
#3009
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,487
Jun 14, 2022, 9:36 am
#3010
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: DXB
Programs: Marriott Titanium Elite, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, BA Silver, A3 Gold, Sixt Diamond
Posts: 2,812
Guys, they are driving me nuts. I have gotten 2 tickets reboooked under bulletin 6.
But they are giving me such a hard time rebooking a third ticket to STT. The agents apparently have been instructed that the bulletins have expired.
When I point them to the Delta webpage for travel agents that explains the details of Bulletin 6, they would quote irrelevant parts. Like the rules for cabin to cabin rebookings.
Or they would quote the part that says that it doesn't apply to USVI bookings (because those are covered by the domestic bulletin).
I've gone through lots of agents and supervisors. It's extremely frustrating.
Even in the end, they didn't give a reason, just: "Fare difference applies."
Does anyone have any recourse? The iMessage chat is so frustrating, it takes hours and hours and hours to get through to a competent agent. And on the phone, they just hang up.
But they are giving me such a hard time rebooking a third ticket to STT. The agents apparently have been instructed that the bulletins have expired.
When I point them to the Delta webpage for travel agents that explains the details of Bulletin 6, they would quote irrelevant parts. Like the rules for cabin to cabin rebookings.
Or they would quote the part that says that it doesn't apply to USVI bookings (because those are covered by the domestic bulletin).
I've gone through lots of agents and supervisors. It's extremely frustrating.
Even in the end, they didn't give a reason, just: "Fare difference applies."
Does anyone have any recourse? The iMessage chat is so frustrating, it takes hours and hours and hours to get through to a competent agent. And on the phone, they just hang up.
Jun 14, 2022, 11:39 am
#3011
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: DXB
Programs: Marriott Titanium Elite, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, BA Silver, A3 Gold, Sixt Diamond
Posts: 2,812
They are telling me that bulletin 6 no longer applies because the newer bulletins replace the previous ones.
The current one is bulletin 11 and it no longer allows for free class to class rebookings.
I guess I’m lucky that they allowed me to rebook two tickets at least…
The current one is bulletin 11 and it no longer allows for free class to class rebookings.
I guess I’m lucky that they allowed me to rebook two tickets at least…
Jun 15, 2022, 1:30 am
#3012
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Netherlands
Programs: Skyteam Elite+ / Hertz PC / Sixt Platinum
Posts: 80
They are telling me that bulletin 6 no longer applies because the newer bulletins replace the previous ones.
The current one is bulletin 11 and it no longer allows for free class to class rebookings.
I guess I’m lucky that they allowed me to rebook two tickets at least…
The current one is bulletin 11 and it no longer allows for free class to class rebookings.
I guess I’m lucky that they allowed me to rebook two tickets at least…
Jun 15, 2022, 4:07 am
#3013
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: DXB
Programs: Marriott Titanium Elite, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, BA Silver, A3 Gold, Sixt Diamond
Posts: 2,812
Unfortunately, Bulletin 11 actually seems to apply to such tickets:
https://pro.delta.com/content/agency...---------.html
What’s worse, the supervisor I spoke to pulled up Bulletin 6 on his end and it didn’t contain the parts about 2022 travel. So probably the statement for travel agencies that can be found on Google is in fact outdated.
Well, or his version is, but how would we prove that.
I think I’m going to give it one last try today with their German hotline. Since I guess EU agents may be a bit more flexible due to EU261. Otherwise I’m going to cut my losses at this point and get the remaining “parked” tickets refunded.
Got one Hawaii trip and one California trip out of it for me+1. Due to a schedule change on the California trip, I could even (after many, many, many tries) get it rebooked to new dates and choose any flight (they opened up I space for us). It shouldn’t have been that difficult as my lawyer confirmed that a schedule change leading to a misconnect counts as a cancellation under EU261 (so Article 8 entitles us to a rebooking on any flight on any date), but Delta disagrees with that and there wouldn’t have been enough time to sue (not that I had wanted to).
https://pro.delta.com/content/agency...---------.html
What’s worse, the supervisor I spoke to pulled up Bulletin 6 on his end and it didn’t contain the parts about 2022 travel. So probably the statement for travel agencies that can be found on Google is in fact outdated.
Well, or his version is, but how would we prove that.
I think I’m going to give it one last try today with their German hotline. Since I guess EU agents may be a bit more flexible due to EU261. Otherwise I’m going to cut my losses at this point and get the remaining “parked” tickets refunded.
Got one Hawaii trip and one California trip out of it for me+1. Due to a schedule change on the California trip, I could even (after many, many, many tries) get it rebooked to new dates and choose any flight (they opened up I space for us). It shouldn’t have been that difficult as my lawyer confirmed that a schedule change leading to a misconnect counts as a cancellation under EU261 (so Article 8 entitles us to a rebooking on any flight on any date), but Delta disagrees with that and there wouldn’t have been enough time to sue (not that I had wanted to).
Jun 15, 2022, 4:26 am
#3014
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,487
That's pretty crappy that they've just removed the ability to rebook under Bulletin 6, but at the end of the day it was Bulletin 6 which was the massive outlier in terms of allowing trips to be preserved through the pandemic. The number of remaining eligible trips must be tiny, so I'm not really sure why they felt the need to do that rather than let things end naturally. Fortunate enough to have used all but the last flight of my I2FFHU fares already, so I'm not personally affected. I did feel better getting the tickets back on the books as the months ticked by though, albeit because I thought the roadblock would be agents with knowledge and willingness to rebook rather than the option being withdrawn.
Jun 15, 2022, 4:33 am
#3015
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: DXB
Programs: Marriott Titanium Elite, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, BA Silver, A3 Gold, Sixt Diamond
Posts: 2,812
I think I may have been advised of some cutoff dates for rebookings when my tickets were parked, but that was a looong time ago. I have also booked (and flown) the ALG AF error fare, and for rebooking that, there was an earlier deadline. But I think that was possibly more about ticket validity than about any bulletins...
What's strange is that there is no consistency. Some agents say free class-to-class rebookings ended Dec 31, 2020. Others say it ended Dec 31, 2021. And still others say it ended March 27, 2022. Either way, they all say it's over.
What's strange is that there is no consistency. Some agents say free class-to-class rebookings ended Dec 31, 2020. Others say it ended Dec 31, 2021. And still others say it ended March 27, 2022. Either way, they all say it's over.