Aug 31, 2015, 9:17 am
Last edit by: footastic
Sequence of events:
American Airlines (AA) Brazil website misprices revenue tickets in initial calculation on purchase page. Repricing the same reservation by changing billing country resulted in the correct price, even when reverting to Brazil.
Vast majority of tickets appear to have gone unticketed for ~1 week. It appears that tickets were issued manually, not automatically.
AA states repeatedly and to several outlets that they will unconditionally honor all fares.
AA begins cancelling tickets. Subsequently, they send out cancellation emails implying that the "country of residence" was misrepresented. Of course, this is not the case, as AA never actually asks for the "country of residence" but the billing address which includes the country of the billing address.
Since AA repeatedly and publicly stated that they would unconditionally honor the tickets, even when specifically asked about it, many purchasers relied upon AA's representations and made non-refundable plans. DoT regulations require airlines to reimburse purchasers who relied upon mistake fares to make non-refundable plans. It may be worth writing into the US Department of Transportation (DoT) to complain about AA's handling of the situation and ask for compensation even without having non-refundable reservations, because AA went to great lengths to assure purchasers that tickets would be unconditionally honored.
DoT air travel complaint form: http://airconsumer.dot.gov/escomplaint/ConsumerForm.cfm
DoT air travel complaint mailing address:
Aviation Consumer Protection Division, C-75
U.S. Department of Transportation
1200 New Jersey Ave, S.E.
Washington, D.C. 20590
DoT air travel complain phone line information:
You may call the ACPD 24 hours a day at 202-366-2220 (TTY 202-366-0511) to record your complaint. Calls are returned Monday through Friday, generally between 7:30 am and 5:00 pm Eastern time.
As mentioned by classyflyer and posted by pb9997, if your flight had some kind of legal nexus within Brazil, their consumer protections should apply to your ticket. Here is the contact information for the relevant consumer protection agencies within Brazil. Please be clear in your communication and REMEMBER TO SUBMIT YOUR COMMUNICATIONS IN PORTUGESE.
To translate your communications before submitting them:
http://translate.google.com
www.reclameaqui.com.br
Quote from pb9997: "This site is known to be the most popular, most viewed upon by companies who care about reputation; Though not official, it has proven to be the most respected by consumers and corporations, who may delay answers on their own channels but do take care to have teams focused on answering for this public site. Information written, from both parties, is public."
www.consumidor.gov.br
Quote again from pb9997: "This is the official PROCON site where consumers and companies present their complaints and arguments. It is official, additional care ought to be taken.
I would highly suggest following the order presented; With the first site the company has room to assess impact, prepare an amiable answer and protect their public reputation.
On the second site... well, it's official and what is written by both parties is the basis to act afterwards in a court of law. Ideally the complaint presented should have the Law that explains why a consumer has been impacted and the expected remedy, according [sic] to the Law."
As of 9/8/15 - Individuals who had tickets cancelled in the first round (8/28) have yet to see refunds post to credit cards.
Feel free to update this Wiki with more complete information.
American Airlines (AA) Brazil website misprices revenue tickets in initial calculation on purchase page. Repricing the same reservation by changing billing country resulted in the correct price, even when reverting to Brazil.
Vast majority of tickets appear to have gone unticketed for ~1 week. It appears that tickets were issued manually, not automatically.
AA states repeatedly and to several outlets that they will unconditionally honor all fares.
AA begins cancelling tickets. Subsequently, they send out cancellation emails implying that the "country of residence" was misrepresented. Of course, this is not the case, as AA never actually asks for the "country of residence" but the billing address which includes the country of the billing address.
Since AA repeatedly and publicly stated that they would unconditionally honor the tickets, even when specifically asked about it, many purchasers relied upon AA's representations and made non-refundable plans. DoT regulations require airlines to reimburse purchasers who relied upon mistake fares to make non-refundable plans. It may be worth writing into the US Department of Transportation (DoT) to complain about AA's handling of the situation and ask for compensation even without having non-refundable reservations, because AA went to great lengths to assure purchasers that tickets would be unconditionally honored.
DoT air travel complaint form: http://airconsumer.dot.gov/escomplaint/ConsumerForm.cfm
DoT air travel complaint mailing address:
Aviation Consumer Protection Division, C-75
U.S. Department of Transportation
1200 New Jersey Ave, S.E.
Washington, D.C. 20590
DoT air travel complain phone line information:
You may call the ACPD 24 hours a day at 202-366-2220 (TTY 202-366-0511) to record your complaint. Calls are returned Monday through Friday, generally between 7:30 am and 5:00 pm Eastern time.
As mentioned by classyflyer and posted by pb9997, if your flight had some kind of legal nexus within Brazil, their consumer protections should apply to your ticket. Here is the contact information for the relevant consumer protection agencies within Brazil. Please be clear in your communication and REMEMBER TO SUBMIT YOUR COMMUNICATIONS IN PORTUGESE.
To translate your communications before submitting them:
http://translate.google.com
www.reclameaqui.com.br
Quote from pb9997: "This site is known to be the most popular, most viewed upon by companies who care about reputation; Though not official, it has proven to be the most respected by consumers and corporations, who may delay answers on their own channels but do take care to have teams focused on answering for this public site. Information written, from both parties, is public."
www.consumidor.gov.br
Quote again from pb9997: "This is the official PROCON site where consumers and companies present their complaints and arguments. It is official, additional care ought to be taken.
I would highly suggest following the order presented; With the first site the company has room to assess impact, prepare an amiable answer and protect their public reputation.
On the second site... well, it's official and what is written by both parties is the basis to act afterwards in a court of law. Ideally the complaint presented should have the Law that explains why a consumer has been impacted and the expected remedy, according [sic] to the Law."
As of 9/8/15 - Individuals who had tickets cancelled in the first round (8/28) have yet to see refunds post to credit cards.
Feel free to update this Wiki with more complete information.
[PREM FARE GONE] AA: GIG/GRU- multiple locations (HKG/LAX/MIA/SFO ETC) ~$200 Y ~$360
Aug 31, 2015, 3:14 pm
#991
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: ATL
Posts: 127
Funny because the DOT has specifically ruled that airlines do not have to honor mistake fares. AA made no official determination (sorry some social media person is not official spokesman for the company) on if they would honor the tickets or not.
When will people realize the airlines live by very different rules thanks to the DOT.
When will people realize the airlines live by very different rules thanks to the DOT.
Aug 31, 2015, 3:16 pm
#992
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Dallas
Programs: AAdvantage EXP, IHG Spire, Marriott Gold, HHonors Gold, National Executive Elite
Posts: 1,523
If AA wants to rely on a bad faith (or fraudulent inducement) argument as the basis to void the contract, they certainly can. The correct forum for doing so is in State or Federal court. They would have to file individual actions against each individual they believed acted in this way and attempt to invalidate the individual contracts on those arguments. Obviously, this is hardly tenable, and their public announcements about honoring all the fares would not serve them well.
Even if they dont go that route by calling it fraudulent and therefore the "mistake fare" rule is moot, it will be up to each individual person, not AA, to prove any damages and ask for compensation (for non-refundable travel expenses incurred). But there is certainly no way that a re-positioning flight would ever be included in that expense incurred. From AA's perspective you are not impacted in any way from traveling from XXX-GIG-XXX just because your nested GIG-DFW-HKG-DFW-GIG flight was cancelled. The key is that since they were built as separate PNRs, AA can and will argue that they are no longer "connecting air travel", since AA does not publish a fare for a routing like NYC-GIG-DFW-HKG.
Aug 31, 2015, 3:22 pm
#993
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: SFO
Programs: AA EXP/4MM, UA GS, AS MVP GOLD 75K
Posts: 3,362
In fact, in 2013, the SEC even said that under certain circumstances, social media could be used as a means to notify of and distribute official shareholder documentation:
http://www.sec.gov/News/PressRelease.../1365171513574
I'd say it's pretty unlikely that "some social media person" just randomly decided to respond off-the-cuff without first having some sort of internal strategy discussion on how to best handle the fares.
Aug 31, 2015, 3:25 pm
#994
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Dallas
Programs: AAdvantage EXP, IHG Spire, Marriott Gold, HHonors Gold, National Executive Elite
Posts: 1,523
My last comment on this... people really should read:
https://cms.dot.gov/sites/dot.gov/fi...t_05082015.pdf
The DOT already ruled in favor of an airline for the exact same case as this (having to manipulate the booking process by both using a foreign website and having a billing address there). AA took the steps to say they may honor tickets if they were purchased by residents (citizens or otherwise) of Brazil.
Seems pretty cut and dry. Id be working with AA and the DOT to prove your non-refundable expenses instead of trying to fight to have flights reinstated.
https://cms.dot.gov/sites/dot.gov/fi...t_05082015.pdf
The DOT already ruled in favor of an airline for the exact same case as this (having to manipulate the booking process by both using a foreign website and having a billing address there). AA took the steps to say they may honor tickets if they were purchased by residents (citizens or otherwise) of Brazil.
Seems pretty cut and dry. Id be working with AA and the DOT to prove your non-refundable expenses instead of trying to fight to have flights reinstated.
Last edited by imapilotaz; Aug 31, 2015 at 3:28 pm Reason: typo
Aug 31, 2015, 3:45 pm
#995
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Austin, TX
Programs: AS MVP Gold 75K, ex-AA EXP, ex-UA 1K
Posts: 707
All final rules, however, can still be challenged in court. As I said before, courts generally offer broad deference to agency rulemaking. However, if they decide that the agency didn't allow for enough public input during the notice-and-comment period, or that its new rule simply oversteps its jurisdictional bounds, a court can invalidate it.
What happened here is that DOT followed the proper process for codifying 399.88 -- which no one is complaining about -- but then turned around and began "interpreting" it in ways that plainly lead to one of the problems it was designed to *fix*: passengers relying on error fares AFTER an airline has stated publicly that it will honor it, and then reversing themselves with weak justifications (e.g. "improper ticketing"). AA's actions have resulted in significant detrimental reliance on the part of potentially thousands of passengers; by relying on AA's own guidance, these passengers took actions like booking nonrefundable fares of various kinds, ones that they'll basically have to "eat" now that their tickets have been cancelled.
Not true in the least. Nobody is above the law, and certainly not a government agency (nor, in this instance, an airline relying on said agency's bad advice). I haven't even touched on the possibility of any direct collusion (of an illegal nature) between the airlines and DOT.
Last edited by kirker; Aug 31, 2015 at 3:51 pm Reason: typo
Aug 31, 2015, 3:50 pm
#996
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Austin, TX
Programs: AS MVP Gold 75K, ex-AA EXP, ex-UA 1K
Posts: 707
Nothing is "cut and dry" in law, and that goes triply so for agency rulemaking. The DOT is not a legislative body; it's an agency. Period. That's why it issues "rules" and not "laws." Said rules do not carry the same weight as laws -- nor should they -- and they are open to a considerable amount of interpretation by both industry figures as well as the judicial branch.
Aug 31, 2015, 5:10 pm
#998
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 319
In this case AA had all tickets in pending mode, then decided to honor (knowing the facts), and manually ticket them. Then cancel
UA never said they would honor.
Don't know if it would change the outcome, but shows how the devil could be in the details in this case.
Aug 31, 2015, 5:25 pm
#999
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Upper Sternistan
Posts: 10,047
There's also the timing here - UA canceled very fast. AA didn't even ticket that fast. Time is material.
Beyond all of the legal arguments (interesting reading, to me), has anyone actually been canceled today? Seems like AA might be changing course yet again here.
Beyond all of the legal arguments (interesting reading, to me), has anyone actually been canceled today? Seems like AA might be changing course yet again here.
Aug 31, 2015, 6:06 pm
#1000
Join Date: May 2015
Programs: BAEC, AAdvantage, AMEX Plat
Posts: 108
My 2x itineraries are still showing up as ticketed. I have no idea whether I should book hotels etc given how unpredictable AA has been.
Aug 31, 2015, 6:25 pm
#1001
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 13
If I booked 2 'reservations', with 2 passengers on each one, is that: 1,2 or 4 separate contracts and separate individual small claims lawsuits?
I believe AA violated their contract of carriage here by providing the 'prior authorization' (via public statements of honoring all bookings) which nullifies their right to cancel tickets which 'circumvent American Airlines' fare rules or policies' [for those which were allegedly booked with a 'misleading' country of residence].
Contract breach damages would be the cost of purchasing an equivalent ticket on another airline....
From contract of carriage:
Additionally, creating bookings to hold or block seats for the purpose of obtaining lower fares, AAdvantage award inventory, or upgrades that may not otherwise be available, or to gain access to airport facilities, or to circumvent any of American Airlines' fare rules or policies, is prohibited without prior authorization from American Airlines.
Where a ticket is invalidated as the result of the passenger's non-compliance with any term or condition of sale, American has the right in its sole discretion to:
Cancel any remaining portion of the passenger's itinerary
I believe AA violated their contract of carriage here by providing the 'prior authorization' (via public statements of honoring all bookings) which nullifies their right to cancel tickets which 'circumvent American Airlines' fare rules or policies' [for those which were allegedly booked with a 'misleading' country of residence].
Contract breach damages would be the cost of purchasing an equivalent ticket on another airline....
From contract of carriage:
Additionally, creating bookings to hold or block seats for the purpose of obtaining lower fares, AAdvantage award inventory, or upgrades that may not otherwise be available, or to gain access to airport facilities, or to circumvent any of American Airlines' fare rules or policies, is prohibited without prior authorization from American Airlines.
Where a ticket is invalidated as the result of the passenger's non-compliance with any term or condition of sale, American has the right in its sole discretion to:
Cancel any remaining portion of the passenger's itinerary
Aug 31, 2015, 6:32 pm
#1002
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 89
@kirker
http://imgur.com/a/fd0kT
I specifically asked AA whether they were going to either: a.) honor bookings in some markets only, or b.) honor all bookings, that had occurred in some markets, and they confirmed the latter in full, in writing.
http://imgur.com/a/fd0kT
I specifically asked AA whether they were going to either: a.) honor bookings in some markets only, or b.) honor all bookings, that had occurred in some markets, and they confirmed the latter in full, in writing.
Aug 31, 2015, 6:56 pm
#1003
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SAT
Programs: AA EXP BA Gold, TK Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, AS 100K, QR PLT, SAS Gold, IHG Spire, AMR
Posts: 5,898
No because AA will demand you prove your nonrefundable costs. Keep in mind AA doesnt care if you paid $1000 to fly DFW-GIG to pick up the flight. As far as they're concerned, they are separate tickets and you can enjoy Rio as you booked that ticket.
And frankly, who buys nonrefundable hotels without insurance on it? Your AA flight cancels and you're crap out of luck. Its rare that refundable hotels are more than 10% different, and that goes into the insurance/self-insurance debate.
And frankly, who buys nonrefundable hotels without insurance on it? Your AA flight cancels and you're crap out of luck. Its rare that refundable hotels are more than 10% different, and that goes into the insurance/self-insurance debate.
And I don't know anybody who books insurance for hotels as a matter of policy. I understand why you do that, but don't think that most people do what you do.
Aug 31, 2015, 6:57 pm
#1004
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SAT
Programs: AA EXP BA Gold, TK Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, AS 100K, QR PLT, SAS Gold, IHG Spire, AMR
Posts: 5,898
If I booked 2 'reservations', with 2 passengers on each one, is that: 1,2 or 4 separate contracts and separate individual small claims lawsuits?
I believe AA violated their contract of carriage here by providing the 'prior authorization' (via public statements of honoring all bookings) which nullifies their right to cancel tickets which 'circumvent American Airlines' fare rules or policies' [for those which were allegedly booked with a 'misleading' country of residence].
Contract breach damages would be the cost of purchasing an equivalent ticket on another airline....
From contract of carriage:
Additionally, creating bookings to hold or block seats for the purpose of obtaining lower fares, AAdvantage award inventory, or upgrades that may not otherwise be available, or to gain access to airport facilities, or to circumvent any of American Airlines' fare rules or policies, is prohibited without prior authorization from American Airlines.
Where a ticket is invalidated as the result of the passenger's non-compliance with any term or condition of sale, American has the right in its sole discretion to:
Cancel any remaining portion of the passenger's itinerary
I believe AA violated their contract of carriage here by providing the 'prior authorization' (via public statements of honoring all bookings) which nullifies their right to cancel tickets which 'circumvent American Airlines' fare rules or policies' [for those which were allegedly booked with a 'misleading' country of residence].
Contract breach damages would be the cost of purchasing an equivalent ticket on another airline....
From contract of carriage:
Additionally, creating bookings to hold or block seats for the purpose of obtaining lower fares, AAdvantage award inventory, or upgrades that may not otherwise be available, or to gain access to airport facilities, or to circumvent any of American Airlines' fare rules or policies, is prohibited without prior authorization from American Airlines.
Where a ticket is invalidated as the result of the passenger's non-compliance with any term or condition of sale, American has the right in its sole discretion to:
Cancel any remaining portion of the passenger's itinerary
Aug 31, 2015, 7:21 pm
#1005
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2001
Location: is everything...but...
Programs: dont matter anymore...
Posts: 3,019
My GRU-HKG trip just re-ticketed. No visible changes that I can see, even the fare rules are the same.
Edit: So I called the EXP desk and they said that all the tickets were being reissued because of some currency conversion malfunction. I didn't want to press any further.
Edit: So I called the EXP desk and they said that all the tickets were being reissued because of some currency conversion malfunction. I didn't want to press any further.
Last edited by flipside; Aug 31, 2015 at 7:30 pm