Jun 19, 2013, 9:45 pm

FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides

Last edit by: fti

People, please edit/use the wiki so same questions are not always asked.

The current CTA decision on the Yangon deal is only for tickets canceled by SWISS Airlines for the seven merged complaints/companions and tickets canceled by Jet Airways for one complainant and companions
- It's not about other carriers because each carrier submits different tariffs.
- If you are not one of the complainants or their companions above who were mentioned in the respective cases, you need to submit a case yourself for hearing.
- There's currently one person who is on Iberia for CTA decision, one can either wait for results or submit a complaint to CTA.

Result of the current case for LX in brief is:
- CTA found 5(F) in the tariff used to be unclear for canceling tickets on erroneously quoted fares.
- 5(F) is unjust and unreasonable and must be revised or taken down by July 9, 2013 (or SWISS can appeal by then)
- SWISS did not use its tariff correctly to cancel the tickets.
- SWISS must compensate one complainant's First Class ticket and any related expenses by July 18, 2013 provided with evidence.
- SWISS must transport other complainants (and their companions) in the original price charged with same booking class and routing by June 18, 2014.

Result of the current case for 9W in brief is:
- Tariff on file had no clauses for "erroneous fares" and was updated subsequently, which means it is not relevant to this event
- Therefore, 9W is to reinstate the tickets with a 1-year validity for transport between the same points and the same booking class.

CTA official news can be read here for general overview of the case.

Actual CTA case review can be found here for reference should you wish to file a complaint.

If you have a similar case that's with SWISS, you need to file with CTA to get a result through informal process first before it gets to formal process. The entire procedure can take up to 3 months for each and the result may not be same cause it's case-by-base and the reviewer of the case can be different.

To file an informal complaint with CTA, see here. Click through all of the pages to get to the online form for the informal complaint. Or click here.

To file a formal complaint after informal complaint has been closed, see here. Continue on to the next page to see the address or email address for the formal complaint.

The July 17th and 18th responses from LX can be found here:

Other Letters:

Feel free to add dates, flights, etc., in order to plan DOs, etc.

Aug 4: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612

Aug 5: ICN-SFO (UA892)
Jason8612

Aug 7: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612

Aug 11: ICN-NRT-ORD (UA78, UA882)
Jason8612

Aug 14: BOS-IAD-NRT-ICN (UA285, UA803, UA79)
Deltspygt

Aug 19: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA352)
Deltspygt

Oct 1: UA433-UA893
JeredF +1

Oct 8: UA892-UA242
JeredF +1

Oct 9: BOS-SFO-ICN (UA433, UA893)
BigJC

Oct 13: ICN-NRT-ORD-BOS (UA78, UA882, UA744)
BigJC

Oct 21: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
Sterndogg +1
flyerdude88 (SFO - ICN portion only)

Oct 23: ICN - SFO UA 892
flyerdude88

Oct 27: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-BOS UA286
Sterndogg +1

Nov 05: BOS-ORD UA521, ORD-NRT UA881
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1

Nov 11: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-IAD UA727
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1

Nov 26: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-NRT UA837, NRT-ICN UA79
thepla

Nov 27: BOS-ORD-NRT-ICN (UA501, UA881, UA196)
BigJC+1

Nov 29: Planning 2 days in TPE, been to ICN
thepla

Dec 1: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-ORD UA698, ORD-BOS UA961
thepla

Dec 1: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA822)
BigJC+1

Dec 15: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
songzm

Dec 25: BOS-IAD UA285, IAD-NRT UA803, NRT-ICN UA79
Dinoscool3 +2

Dec 30: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA444
songzm

Dec 31: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA770
Dinoscool3 +2

Jan 11: BOS-SFO UA1523, Jan 12: SFO-ICN UA893
margarita girl

Jan 12: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
Zebranz

14 Jan: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
ORDOGG

19 Jan: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-ORD UA698 to ORD-BOS UA961
ORDOGG

Jan 22: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA500
margarita girl

Feb 5: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA242
Zebranz

CMB-DFW EY F

FARE IS GONE

FARE RULES (thanks to SQ421)
FRTLK Fare Rules (RT)
FOWLK Fare Rules (OW)

WHEN ARE YOU FLYING?
Feel free to add any additional cities you're leaving from!
Please slot yourselves in!!!

ex-CMB
Feb

Mar
8 - Darmajaya
12 - Thaidai
22 - Deadinabsentia

Apr
21 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
26 - tahsir21

May
28 - Upperdeck744
29 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)

Jun
12 - lelee

Jul
7 - HansGolden +6
8 - arcticbull + 1
11 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: SIN-CMB, DFW-MCI)
25 - Tycosiao
30 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: MCI-DFW, CMB-SIN)

Aug
17 - DC777Fan
26 - Yi Yang
31 - dcas

Sep

Oct

Nov
8 - harryhv
29 - stephem+4

Dec
6 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. roastpuff , JFKEZE (UL Code-share)
7 - DWFI
10 - jlisi984 + dad (CMB-AUH-DFW)
21 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)

ex-AUH
Jan

Feb

Mar

Apr
27 - RICHKLHS

May

Jun
29 - yerffej201

Jul
9 - HansGolden +6
27 - Tycosiao

Aug

Sep

Oct

Nov
30 - stephem+4 (to JFK)

Dec
7 - JFKEZE, DWFI [EY161 nonstop]
9 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. Roastpuff

ex-DFW
Jan

Feb

Mar
14 - Thaidai
15 - zainman +1

Apr
25 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir

May

Jun

Jul

Aug
22 - arcticbull + 1

Sep
22 - bonsaisai (positioning flights ORD-DFW, CMB-SIN)

Oct

Nov
19 - harryhv->Paris

Dec
19 - Yi Yang, jona970318
24 - DWFI (EY160 nonstop)
26 - HansGolden +6 (CDG), LwoodY2K (AUH)

[PREM FARE GONE] RGN First class comes back again!!!!

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Nov 20, 2013, 12:53 pm

#9586

colpuck

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Jul 2007

Location: DFW

Programs: UA Pleb, HH Gold, PWP General Secretary

Posts: 23,199

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnAMileHigh

I received the same e-mail regarding the stay util 2/14.

Yet another document for Heather and her team to review and rack up some more billable hours.

I didn't get it. Is this new e-mail part of the 7 or part of the 21?

Nov 20, 2013, 2:07 pm

#9587

patchan8984

Join Date: Oct 2005

Location: SFO/SJC

Programs: AMEX PLT, AA PPro, Spire AMB

Posts: 1,617

I count only 21. To let us know that we will be combined with the first 7 complainants...thats it.

Nov 20, 2013, 3:33 pm

#9588

palefire

Join Date: Apr 2008

Posts: 389

Quote:

Originally Posted by patchan8984

I count only 21. To let us know that we will be combined with the first 7 complainants...thats it.

With each other, I think, and not with the first 7.

I received such a letter from CTA last week (with 17 complainants on it), and nothing today. So maybe there are 17+21 more? Or did anyone get copied twice?

Nov 20, 2013, 4:03 pm

#9589

danger

Join Date: Apr 2007

Programs: QF, VA, AC, Hyatt, Marriott

Posts: 3,783

Quote:

Originally Posted by redtailshark

How about in the first case, file against those for whom you have written proof of voiding responsibility? There is no reason why CTA cannot inform you if you should file against other parties. Let them do so. Make it formal.

I have a JL plated ticket, BA cancelled sectors - twice, in fact - and after extensive correspondence with JL, BA and TL, I obtained written confirmation from other parties that BA was the responsible party. BA themselves did not deny this directly but were evasive, telling me to contact TL.

The only proof I have is voiding by IB of their sector, not of the entire ticket which was issued by CX. It's become extremely difficult to find out exactly why my entire itinerary was cancelled. It would appear as though Travelocity cancelled it but it's not clear if they did so on IB's instruction (or maybe another airline's).

I have filed with the CTA against IB.

Nov 20, 2013, 5:06 pm

#9590

cruisr

Join Date: Dec 2004

Programs: UA-1K, MM, Hilton-Diamond, Marriott-Titanium

Posts: 4,432

Quote:

Originally Posted by palefire

I just received the one from CTA last Thursday. I have been added to the original 7. Haven't recd anything since. It sounds like it's the same letter though.

Nov 20, 2013, 5:40 pm

#9591

palefire

Join Date: Apr 2008

Posts: 389

Quote:

Originally Posted by cruisr

I just received the one from CTA last Thursday. I have been added to the original 7.

Again, I don't think so -- the recipients of that letter were combined together, not added to the original 7.

Nov 20, 2013, 5:58 pm

#9592

Pucnit

Join Date: Jan 2011

Location: CMH

Programs: AA EXP, EBS GLD, A|Club PLT, CC Silver, HH GLD

Posts: 782

Quote:

Originally Posted by patgarrett

It was only the last segment, but I was told by SQ and MH that I would be denied boarding at RGN because of the IB cancellation. That didn't make sense to me at the time and still doesn't, but I decided not to risk it. IB essentially voided the ticket, which is why I don't see much point in pursuing mediation for just the LHR-YUL segment. I want the whole thing reinstated.

I would research the COC of the plating carrier. The COC will dictate what happens when a segment is cancelled.

It seems you are at the formal complaint process with IB. Did you file an informal complaint against SQ as well for being the plating carrier?

Nov 20, 2013, 7:01 pm

#9593

redtailshark

Suspended

Join Date: Nov 2003

Location: Tucson, AZ, USA. UA 1K, reluctant but * best in class * DL FO/MM. Former BA jumpseat rider and scourge of Dilbertian management and apologists. As LX might - and do - say: "....an experienced frequent flyer of international airlines"

Posts: 3,386

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sykes

All documents related to the complaint are shared with all parties--it says so directly on the website. Further, summary-level information (including your full name) will be posted on the CTA's website along with any decisions when part of the formal process. All of it is probably part of the public record as well, although I'm not really sure how that works in Canada.

This is necessary reciprocidad... whoever expects LX and CTA to be accountable to FOI type laws should at least be held accountable to the same standard. Stand up and be counted.

The Yangon Seven already have.

And so what...the whole world will know, you are "an experienced frequent flyer of international airlines"

Muahahahaha! Like they don't know that anyway...

Nov 20, 2013, 7:09 pm

#9594

AA_EXP09

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Oct 2011

Location: Anywhere I need to be.

Programs: OW Emerald, *A Gold, NEXUS, GE, ABTC/APEC, South Korea SES, eIACS, PP, Hyatt Diamond

Posts: 16,046

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sykes

Looking at the CTA complaint for the original 7, it seems that this should have been an expectation, IMO.

Nov 20, 2013, 7:55 pm

#9595

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Mar 2001

Location: AU

Programs: former Olympic Airways Gold (yeah - still proud of that!)

Posts: 14,406

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deltahater

we shall see what discovery will yield. How much they have spent so far on legal fees is certainly part of the scope of discovery

for whom? why would the CTA care? or are you talking about an individual suing Swiss?

Nov 20, 2013, 7:56 pm

#9596

cruisr

Join Date: Dec 2004

Programs: UA-1K, MM, Hilton-Diamond, Marriott-Titanium

Posts: 4,432

Quote:

Originally Posted by palefire

Again, I don't think so -- the recipients of that letter were combined together, not added to the original 7.

Well this is confusing. I thought that some of the names on the cc and some of the addresses on the letter were some of the original 7.

Nov 20, 2013, 8:11 pm

#9597

BrewerSEA

Join Date: Nov 2010

Location: Seattle

Programs: AS MVPG 75K

Posts: 2,574

Quote:

Originally Posted by cruisr

Well this is confusing. I thought that some of the names on the cc and some of the addresses on the letter were some of the original 7.

Very strange. The copy of Decision No.LET-C-A-123-2013 dated November 14, 2013 that I received from Cathy Murphy is addressed to Swiss and copied to the 7 (of whom I am one).

Nov 20, 2013, 8:37 pm

#9598

FlytheTail

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Anywhere but home

Programs: UA 1K/MM, DL GM/MM, HH Dia, PC Plat, MR Gold, ALL Sil,

Posts: 4,552

From what I can tell, here's my math for the formal complaints filed to date:
7+17+21 = 45... and counting

Last edited by FlytheTail; Nov 20, 2013 at 8:45 pm

Nov 20, 2013, 8:48 pm

#9599

cruisr

Join Date: Dec 2004

Programs: UA-1K, MM, Hilton-Diamond, Marriott-Titanium

Posts: 4,432

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrewerSEA

Very strange. The copy of Decision No.LET-C-A-123-2013 dated November 14, 2013 that I received from Cathy Murphy is addressed to Swiss and copied to the 7 (of whom I am one).

My bad. I am confused. There were two letters. I got 123-2013 and 125-2013. I must have been tired or jet lagged when I read the email and the attachments.

123-2013 was cc'd to the original 7. 125-2013 went to 17 people who I presume had their complaints moved from informal to formal process or who started out with the formal process.

Nov 21, 2013, 12:12 am

#9600

MileTex

Join Date: Feb 2000

Location: AA-Plat 7 Mil, UA-Plat 2 Mil, BA - Silv., KLM/AF- Plat, Bonvoy-Plat.

Posts: 821

Can/Should I file ?

I purchased a R2 ticket and flew:

1. ANA RGN- NRT in Business
2. LH NRT-FRA in F (ANA Codeshare)
3. LH FRA-ZRH in Y (Swiss Codeshare) Was booked in J but Swiss downgraded me to Y

4. LX ZRH-YUL in Y (Was booked in F but LX downgraded me to Y)

I might add that the flight was full from ZRH-YUL so they had to put me in Business. Once the "higher Ups" realized this, they came on the plane and yelled at me in front of all the other passengers that I hadn't paid enough for my ticket and I had to move to Y. Talk about a walk of shame. And to a middle seat in Y.

So, do I have any right to seek justice from LX?