keithguy

As I understand it, one of the jobs of the RPU was to look out for multiple segments flown for mileage, but its other duties were looking out for things like back-to-back ticketing, throw away ticketing and hidden city ticketing.

anonplz

Glad I know this. How second-tier of them.

El Boocho

If due to the extra segments added, that full fare customer is no longer a profitable customer or has reduced the margin to something akin to a deeply discounted ticket, why would they want to encourage those customers. They want to encourage getting you there on the least expenseive (to them) route for the most money (from you). Those seats that go to MRers could have been sold for additional revenue.

anonplz

Because in a lot of markets, there are alternatives on carriers who don't mind selling seats to MRers.

pb9997

Well, they could also have flown empty meaning wasted = zero revenue.

The point is: when a routing gets published the airline has got to do their homework and check whether it is profitable for them if a pax flies all the segs. If it's profitable, then let the passenger fly one or all the authorized segments - that's the rule the carrier published.

Otherwise you start having arguments with your (best) customers.

Like flukes that sometimes pop-up in the internet due to extremely low fares being input to the engines. If it was a mistake the carrier has got to honour it, the same way a customer has got to abide by the rules when a purchase is made 'by mistake'.

To me, the way DL position themselves, speaks a lot of them. I simply steer away.

Mileage runners are there for the sake of the company in good and bad times. Sometimes MR are the ones who help carriers with their cashflow, when carriers publish double and triple miles. As a former CEO once said - all our customers are important customers, regardless of the reasons they choose to fly our planes.

El Boocho

I guess I'm missing your point. Just because others are willing to sell tickets that net them a loss doesn't mean that it is a best practice or one that should be followed. No matter how many revenue negative seats you sell, you still can't turn a profit on them.

Besides I think you are overestimating the amount of revenue that MRers provide to an airline. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking it after all they set the rules, but let's be honest here, the typical MR is not a full fare ticket. Rather it is a low fare ticket that because of the segments or crazy routing causes the airline to incur a disproportionately high ratio of expense to revenue.

channa

Revenue negativity isn't always an issue with airline pricing, as the seats are perishable and have no value after the door closes.

$100 is better than $0 when that door is shut, even if that $100 is below the airline's cost per seat mile.

seoulmanjr

It is only a disproportionately high ratio of expense to revenue if they could have otherwise sold that seat to a different passenger. If the flight is half full and a MRer is on the plane, then the costs for operating the flight increase only negligibly with a MRer in a seat as opposed to not - a soda and the extra fuel required to haul a whole extra 120-220 lbs probably is about it. If the seat would otherwise go empty, then the MRer isn't costing the airline money by going on those segments.

I could understand if Delta was expecting to fill the flights and were to say to a MRer "Hey, we have people trying to get places today, so we have to put you on a more direct routing to free up those seats". If they are busting a MRers chops when the flights wouldn't be filled up anyway, then they're just antagonizing a frequently flying passenger for very, very little gain.

I really think that Delta is going about this back asswards. If they don't want people to assume that they can fly the routings that are published, then they should change what they publish.

What is a few thousand frequent flier miles to DL anyway? A MRer might not be flying on a fare/routing that makes the airline profit, but if there are open seats, then that lil' bit of revenue at least defrays the margin of loss on the flight. Revenue is revenue unless, like I said above, they are incurring an opportunity cost by missing out on putting another revenue generating butt in their seats.

Sheesh.

peace,
~Ben~

autopilot

The strength of this forum is the combined force of all participating FT'ers. We are 50.000 people with the overwhelming majority on elite status at 1 or more airlines. If every one of us flies for just $ 2000 a year we bring $ 1 billion to the airlines.
That still does not mean we are the "most" important group for the airlines but we are defently a powerful force due to the fact that we communicate extensively with each other. This forum is probable a very valuable resource because it gives airlines information about real experiences from frequent fliers who understand the industry and its practices as opposed to the one-time experience of an occasional passenger.

Following some of the threads, some airlines value us higher than others, but none of them will give us the pleasure acknowleding our value to them.

El Boocho

I'm sure this is the wrong forum for me to take this up, but I guess I'm just not bright enough to help myself.

Allow me to preface my comments with: I have no issues with the mileage run. I think you guys and gals are an interesting breed.
There would be no revenue from the seat on that extra segment(s) whether it goes empty or with the MRer in it. However the possibility of getting revenue from that seat(s) is better than putting a passenger who pays the same to go from A-B as he does to go from A-B-C-D in it.
Are we sure this is a published routing?
I don't think they have to honor it in all places. They choose to do so. I believe that at least in the US it would be subject to state law, presumably the state in which the purchaser made the purchase.
BTW the MRer isn't exactly helping the airline by booking the those mistake fares. Chances are it would probably be cheaper for the airline to have the seat go empty. It is the fear of losing future revenue that causes them to honor the fare.
Every passenger should be treated with respect. That doesn't mean that they should be treated equally or that they should be offered fares that are losers.

anonplz

Good points. ^

But let me be a little cheeky here (having a bad day):

[cheekiness]You can't turn a profit on them when you are overpaying your management team, sure. Bring those costs down, stop giving your CEO bazillion dollar bonuses and maybe you could start to turn a profit on those seats. But ultimately, why go to the trouble when congress has spoiled you by bailing you out every time you lose money. Running an airline is one of the few businesses apparently, in which you actually win by losing.[/cheekiness]

El Boocho

If this was a true MR you would be correct.
In the OPs situation there is no incremental $100.

seoulmanjr

Anonplz, I would like to present you with the Nail-on-the-Head Award for March 3, 2005:

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V

Congratulations!

peace,
~Ben~

El Boocho

Can't argue that! The FAIC (federal airline insurance corporation) i.e. congress, sure doesn't help the situation. How about a true merit based comp. structure for the C-suite employees? What a radical idea.

stephem

Funny to read that Delta would try to crack down on MRers b/c I consistently get some of the wackiest routings from Delta without even trying. This is largely because as someone based in Seattle, they dont seem to care if i go through ATL or SLC and that can lead to some high mileage routings, especially for multi stop trips.

I was just trying to book a ticket for an upcoming business trip that involves travel to both IAH and DFW (one day in each). Continental is an X fare and I don't want 50 EQMs, NW is outrageous. Delta routes me SEA-ATL-IAH-ATL-DFW-ATL-SEA. If I changed things around a bit to cram in another meeting, it was even adding in another back and forth to ATL on the return and if i dug a bit more i found a IAH-SLC-DFW leg. Mind you I wasnt even trying to get a MR here, just a reasonable fare with 100% EQMs. I'd end up with about 7200 EQM's and over 16k miles with a platinum bonus for about $500 (another 1500+ EQM's available with another loop through ATL). My point, if Delta really wants to make flights available for me to lots of destinations and at lots of times, their computers are going to churn out some pretty interesting stuff. I'd be pissed if I bought this expecting to get the EQM's and they tried to screw me. If they dont like these routings they shouldn't even display them in the first place.