UA run from BRE
Nov 1, 2001, 10:24 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K,SPG Plat,
Posts: 1,091
UA run from BRE
I'm calling on your collective wisdom to help me out.
I found a nice fare on UA from BRE to PHL for what works out in my head to 1.75 cents/mile.
17 NOV
BRE to FRA UA3689 10:45-11:50
FRA to PHL UA3874 13:15-16:20
18 NOV
PHL to FRA UA3875 18:05-07:55
FRA to BRE UA3722 9:10-10:05
$350.31
If I route it a bit differently(BRE to FRA to ORD to PHL and back), I bump the miles a bit more, yielding more bang for the buck.
Having not flown in the US recently, would I be setting myself up for delays and cancellations by routing through ORD and being greedy?
Thanks,
Joe
I found a nice fare on UA from BRE to PHL for what works out in my head to 1.75 cents/mile.
17 NOV
BRE to FRA UA3689 10:45-11:50
FRA to PHL UA3874 13:15-16:20
18 NOV
PHL to FRA UA3875 18:05-07:55
FRA to BRE UA3722 9:10-10:05
$350.31
If I route it a bit differently(BRE to FRA to ORD to PHL and back), I bump the miles a bit more, yielding more bang for the buck.
Having not flown in the US recently, would I be setting myself up for delays and cancellations by routing through ORD and being greedy?
Thanks,
Joe
Nov 1, 2001, 2:40 pm
#2
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: CH-3823 Wengen Switzerland
Programs: miles&more, MileagePlus
Posts: 27,041
All of the above flights (UA numbers 3NNN) are UA code-shares with LH being the actual carrier.
No upgrades using miles or vouchers possible on such code share flights with UA flight# and LH being the actual carrier.
No promotional bonus/double miles credited either. But you do get the UA status bonus (25%/100% for Premier/Premier Executive).
No upgrades using miles or vouchers possible on such code share flights with UA flight# and LH being the actual carrier.
No promotional bonus/double miles credited either. But you do get the UA status bonus (25%/100% for Premier/Premier Executive).
Nov 1, 2001, 10:00 pm
#3
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New Brunswick, NJ, USA
Posts: 40
How about this connection:
1) United Airlines 3673 (Operated by Deutsche Lufthansa Ag) Nov 17 14:20 BRE 15:25 FRA
United Airlines 945 Nov 17 17:00 FRA 19:25 ORD
United Airlines 1976 Nov 17 20:40 ORD 23:31 PHL
2) United Airlines 1863 Nov 18 12:00 PHL 13:05 ORD
United Airlines 944 Nov 18 14:30 ORD 5:45 (Next day) FRA
United Airlines 3556 (Operated by Deutsche Lufthansa Ag) Nov 19 6:40 FRA 7:35 BRE
This ticket is 359.31 USD per person (you may save another $15 if you book via a German ticket consolidator). It gives you 10040 base miles on UA metal plus 1000 minimum miles on LH metal. With the double miles bonus per UA mile and the 25% premier bonus on UA+LH miles you end up with 23840 Miles for about $360, i.e. 1.51 cents per mile.
The routing via ORD does not create problems with UA (I recently had a flight to EZE (Buenos Aires) from the New York area via ORD, although there are direct flights JFK-EZE). However, the connection time at ORD on your inbound seems to be very short (75 minutes), given that you have to pass through INS/customs and, after a 10 minute lightrail ride to a different terminal, you have to pass through security again.
The connection times at ORD look better for the DUS-ORD-PHL option. You loose the 1000LH miles and will receive 22086 UA miles for $343, i.e. 1.55 cents per mile. Of course, the Deutsche Bundesbahn will rip you off on this deal.
Regards
Chris
[This message has been edited by parallelrechner (edited 11-01-2001).]
1) United Airlines 3673 (Operated by Deutsche Lufthansa Ag) Nov 17 14:20 BRE 15:25 FRA
United Airlines 945 Nov 17 17:00 FRA 19:25 ORD
United Airlines 1976 Nov 17 20:40 ORD 23:31 PHL
2) United Airlines 1863 Nov 18 12:00 PHL 13:05 ORD
United Airlines 944 Nov 18 14:30 ORD 5:45 (Next day) FRA
United Airlines 3556 (Operated by Deutsche Lufthansa Ag) Nov 19 6:40 FRA 7:35 BRE
This ticket is 359.31 USD per person (you may save another $15 if you book via a German ticket consolidator). It gives you 10040 base miles on UA metal plus 1000 minimum miles on LH metal. With the double miles bonus per UA mile and the 25% premier bonus on UA+LH miles you end up with 23840 Miles for about $360, i.e. 1.51 cents per mile.
The routing via ORD does not create problems with UA (I recently had a flight to EZE (Buenos Aires) from the New York area via ORD, although there are direct flights JFK-EZE). However, the connection time at ORD on your inbound seems to be very short (75 minutes), given that you have to pass through INS/customs and, after a 10 minute lightrail ride to a different terminal, you have to pass through security again.
The connection times at ORD look better for the DUS-ORD-PHL option. You loose the 1000LH miles and will receive 22086 UA miles for $343, i.e. 1.55 cents per mile. Of course, the Deutsche Bundesbahn will rip you off on this deal.
Regards
Chris
[This message has been edited by parallelrechner (edited 11-01-2001).]
Nov 2, 2001, 3:51 am
#4
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Wesseling, NRW, Germany
Programs: UA *S , MR LT Titanium, HH Diamond, Hertz PC
Posts: 3,940
How do you guys get this price out of this routing? All fares I checked had a maximum-mileage that do not allow any connections to northern east-coast-destinations through ORD...only the IAD-connection will fit into the maximum allowed miles...
Any hints?
Greetings - Dirk
Any hints?
Greetings - Dirk
Nov 2, 2001, 10:24 pm
#5
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New Brunswick, NJ, USA
Posts: 40
Dirk,
Where did you check flight availability and prices?
On the ual.com webpage (and also on unitedairlines.de), you can easily create those itinaries. Just minutes ago I got a price for an EWR-DUS roundtrip via SFO, too crazy for me. But why not???
In your profile, set the number of connections per leg to 20.
Regards
Chris
Where did you check flight availability and prices?
On the ual.com webpage (and also on unitedairlines.de), you can easily create those itinaries. Just minutes ago I got a price for an EWR-DUS roundtrip via SFO, too crazy for me. But why not???
In your profile, set the number of connections per leg to 20.
Regards
Chris
Nov 3, 2001, 4:17 am
#6
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Wesseling, NRW, Germany
Programs: UA *S , MR LT Titanium, HH Diamond, Hertz PC
Posts: 3,940
Creating these roundtrips is not a problem, but the price is completly different when I price them (e.g. on UAL.com)...say CGN-FRA-IAD-PHL for 345$, but CGN-FRA-ORD-PHL is around 600$.
That's my main problem: How to get a routing via Chicago to northeastern destination like PHL or NYC, without inflating the price...
Availability in the necessary fareclasses is not a problem...
Greetings- Dirk
That's my main problem: How to get a routing via Chicago to northeastern destination like PHL or NYC, without inflating the price...
Availability in the necessary fareclasses is not a problem...
Greetings- Dirk
Nov 3, 2001, 11:35 am
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K,SPG Plat,
Posts: 1,091
Rudi...thanks for the heads up.
I went back and looked at the options, and have booked BRE-FRA-IAD-PHL and back, $415.
Funny thing I found out is that ual.de has a MP bonus for booking on there, 3000 bonus miles for using the "new" website to book, and then 500 miles per transatlantic segment.
Plus, the FRA-IAD-PHL are on UA metal, so I get the double miles. Ends up around 1.66 cents per mile. Add that to the cheesesteaks I'm getting hungry for, and I'm a happy man.
I went back and looked at the options, and have booked BRE-FRA-IAD-PHL and back, $415.
Funny thing I found out is that ual.de has a MP bonus for booking on there, 3000 bonus miles for using the "new" website to book, and then 500 miles per transatlantic segment.
Plus, the FRA-IAD-PHL are on UA metal, so I get the double miles. Ends up around 1.66 cents per mile. Add that to the cheesesteaks I'm getting hungry for, and I'm a happy man.
Nov 4, 2001, 12:19 am
#8
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New Brunswick, NJ, USA
Posts: 40
Dirk:
I checked out some US-Germany connections. There are strong fare differences for intra-US flights depending on the time of day, expecially for the Thanksgiving weekend.
One example is documented at http://monika.rutgers.edu/dummy/example.htm (hope the link works and sorry, for the poor quality, missing icons etc).
Maybe you should play around with various times for your intra-US legs.
Regards
Chris
I checked out some US-Germany connections. There are strong fare differences for intra-US flights depending on the time of day, expecially for the Thanksgiving weekend.
One example is documented at http://monika.rutgers.edu/dummy/example.htm (hope the link works and sorry, for the poor quality, missing icons etc).
Maybe you should play around with various times for your intra-US legs.
Regards
Chris
Nov 4, 2001, 1:44 am
#9
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Wesseling, NRW, Germany
Programs: UA *S , MR LT Titanium, HH Diamond, Hertz PC
Posts: 3,940
I guess I found the problem after carefully reading what you wrote...;-)!
You were checking US-DE roundtrips, while I was checking DE-US ones.
That means totally different rules, even for the same fare-type, airline and routing. Seems to me that the MPM-rule either does not apply to the US-DE version of a fare or is a hell lot more generous, but it does apply to the DE-US one or is at least a lot more restrictive (usually direct routing plus 10% or so).
So it seems that DUS-SFO-EWR does not work with the dirt-cheap fares, EWR-SFO-DUS indeed does. Sadly all my trips begin in DE, so I cannot use these...;-)!
Greetings - Dirk
You were checking US-DE roundtrips, while I was checking DE-US ones.
That means totally different rules, even for the same fare-type, airline and routing. Seems to me that the MPM-rule either does not apply to the US-DE version of a fare or is a hell lot more generous, but it does apply to the DE-US one or is at least a lot more restrictive (usually direct routing plus 10% or so).
So it seems that DUS-SFO-EWR does not work with the dirt-cheap fares, EWR-SFO-DUS indeed does. Sadly all my trips begin in DE, so I cannot use these...;-)!
Greetings - Dirk
Nov 4, 2001, 6:47 am
#10
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K,SPG Plat,
Posts: 1,091
Dirk,
United.de is having a special right now, called "Out of the Rain, Into the Sun" with flights running from FRA to western US cities, most showing up under 800DM. I played with a few different routings, including from BRE, and going to LAS is cheaper than going to PHL(not kicking myself too much as I don't know anyone in LAS...yet).
Give it a shot.
Joe
United.de is having a special right now, called "Out of the Rain, Into the Sun" with flights running from FRA to western US cities, most showing up under 800DM. I played with a few different routings, including from BRE, and going to LAS is cheaper than going to PHL(not kicking myself too much as I don't know anyone in LAS...yet).
Give it a shot.
Joe
Nov 4, 2001, 5:06 pm
#11
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New Brunswick, NJ, USA
Posts: 40
Dirk,
never heard about MPM rule etc. The prices for DE-USA-DE and USA-DE-USA are more or less identical in many cases (see example 1), sometimes the USA-DE-USA tickets are way more expensive (see example 2).
Example 1
1) DUS-ORD-PHL Nov. 30
PHL-ORD-DUS Dec. 4 ==> $343.82 on united.com (and believe it or not $333 on unitedairlines.de)
2) PHL-ORD-DUS Nov. 30
DUS-ORD-PHL Dec. 4 ==> $345.82 again on united.com
Example 2
1) BRE-FRA-ORD-PHL Nov. 30
PHL-ORD-FRA-BRE Dec. 4 ==> $375.31
2) PHL-ORD-FRA-BRE Nov. 30
BRE-FRA-ORD-PHL Dec. 4 ==> $660.31
(all long dist on UA metal)
I think all one could do is to play around with departure times and days and routings. It's not very efficient for a reservation system to frequently generate $300 EWR-SFO-Europe routings.
Regards
Chris
never heard about MPM rule etc. The prices for DE-USA-DE and USA-DE-USA are more or less identical in many cases (see example 1), sometimes the USA-DE-USA tickets are way more expensive (see example 2).
Example 1
1) DUS-ORD-PHL Nov. 30
PHL-ORD-DUS Dec. 4 ==> $343.82 on united.com (and believe it or not $333 on unitedairlines.de)
2) PHL-ORD-DUS Nov. 30
DUS-ORD-PHL Dec. 4 ==> $345.82 again on united.com
Example 2
1) BRE-FRA-ORD-PHL Nov. 30
PHL-ORD-FRA-BRE Dec. 4 ==> $375.31
2) PHL-ORD-FRA-BRE Nov. 30
BRE-FRA-ORD-PHL Dec. 4 ==> $660.31
(all long dist on UA metal)
I think all one could do is to play around with departure times and days and routings. It's not very efficient for a reservation system to frequently generate $300 EWR-SFO-Europe routings.
Regards
Chris
Nov 5, 2001, 5:04 am
#12
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Wesseling, NRW, Germany
Programs: UA *S , MR LT Titanium, HH Diamond, Hertz PC
Posts: 3,940
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
I think all one could do is to play around with departure times and days and routings. It's not very efficient for a reservation system to frequently generate $300 EWR-SFO-Europe routings.
</font>
I think all one could do is to play around with departure times and days and routings. It's not very efficient for a reservation system to frequently generate $300 EWR-SFO-Europe routings.
</font>
From: Düsseldorf (DUS-Flughafen Düsseldorf)
To: Philadelphia, PA (PHL-Philadelphia Intl.)
Farebase: WLSPXDE8
DUSPHL-UA 8NOV01 *RULE DISPLAY* TARIFF 001 RULE 2517
* ADD APPLICABLE TAX * FED INSP FEES *
-FARE BASIS EUR NUC PTC FT GI
WLSPXDE8 R 309.00 276.43 ADT EX AT
WLSPXDE8/CH33 R 207.03 185.20 CNN EX AT
WLSPXDE8/IN33 R 207.03 185.20 INS EX AT
WLSPXDE8/IN90 R 30.90 27.64 INF EX AT
WLSPXDE8/CH33 R 207.03 185.20 UNN EX AT
BOOKING CODES W
FIRST TRAVEL -29OCT01 LAST TRAVEL -13DEC01
LAST TICKETING -23NOV01 TRAVEL COMPLETE -21DEC01
[...]
MPM - AT 4598 VIA NORTH ATLANTIC
This routing though is 4230 miles (DUS-ORD) plus 719 miles (ORD-PHL), a total of 4949 miles. So I would consider it illegal, yet UAL.com brings it up for the mentioned price and farebase.
Funny enough the routing is valid as by the rules:
ROUTING 125 FROM DUS-UA-CHI-UA-WAS/EWR/NYC-
OR FROM DUS-SK/LH/UA-CPH-UA-NYC/EWR-
UA-WAS-
OR FROM DUS-LH/UA-FRA-UA-NYC/EWR-UA-
WAS-
OR FROM DUS-YY-MUC-UA-NYC/EWR-UA-WAS-
OR FROM DUS-LH/UA-PAR-UA-NYC/EWR-UA-
WAS-
OR FROM DUS-YY-MUC-UA-WAS-UA-EWR/NYC-
So maybe this overrides the MPM rule...this though exceeds my knowledge of airline-rules...;-)!
As to the routing DUS-SFO-EWR-SFO-DUS (that would be a great mileage-run), I get the option before finally pricing the trip also (offered at the same price as the most-direct routing), but on the final display the price jumps to ~1500$.
Here even the routing (apart from the MPM) is not allowed...
Greetings - Dirk
Nov 5, 2001, 6:00 am
#13
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Sunny Switzerland
Programs: BD / BA / AF
Posts: 4,388
If you don't mind spending an extra day, you can book the following for DM832 (approx $380):
Mileage calculations:
17 Nov: FRA-ORD 4342
17 Nov: ORD-PHL 678
18 Nov: PHL-IAD 500
18 Nov: IAD-SFO 2419
19 Nov: SFO-ORD 1846
19 Nov: ORD-FRA 4342
Status Mileage: 14127
Mileage Bonus: 17127 (Double miles plus 3000 for online booking)
Status bonus: 3531.75 (based on 25% bonus for 2P)
Ticket Price: $380.00 (DM832.44)
Total Mileage: 35785.75
Cost per mile: $0.011
Cost per status mile: $0.027
Fare basis is WLSPXDE. I suspect a few more miles could be squeezed out of this with a little work. Let me know if you'd like me to explore further.
------------------
Please visit The Mileage Runner's Toolkit and Unofficial United Airlines Guide
Mileage calculations:
17 Nov: FRA-ORD 4342
17 Nov: ORD-PHL 678
18 Nov: PHL-IAD 500
18 Nov: IAD-SFO 2419
19 Nov: SFO-ORD 1846
19 Nov: ORD-FRA 4342
Status Mileage: 14127
Mileage Bonus: 17127 (Double miles plus 3000 for online booking)
Status bonus: 3531.75 (based on 25% bonus for 2P)
Ticket Price: $380.00 (DM832.44)
Total Mileage: 35785.75
Cost per mile: $0.011
Cost per status mile: $0.027
Fare basis is WLSPXDE. I suspect a few more miles could be squeezed out of this with a little work. Let me know if you'd like me to explore further.
------------------
Please visit The Mileage Runner's Toolkit and Unofficial United Airlines Guide
Nov 5, 2001, 6:19 am
#14
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Sunny Switzerland
Programs: BD / BA / AF
Posts: 4,388
This one prices out at DM814 -- fare basis is VLGCDE:
Bremen (BRE) to Philadelphia (PHL) Saturday, 17 Nov
United Airlines 3673
(Operated by Deutsche Lufthansa Ag)
17 Nov 14:20 depart BRE
17 Nov 15:25 arrive FRA
United Airlines 945
Boeing 777
17 Nov 17:00 depart FRA
17 Nov 19:25 arrive ORD
United Airlines 1976
Boeing 737-300
17 Nov 20:40 depart ORD
17 Nov 23:31 arrive PHL
Philadelphia (PHL) to San Francisco (SFO) Sunday, 18 Nov
United Airlines 7333
(Operated by United Express/Atlantic Coast)
Canadair Jet
18 Nov 18:25 depart PHL
18 Nov 19:15 arrive IAD
United Airlines 225
Airbus A320
18 Nov 20:25 depart IAD
18 Nov 23:08 arrive SFO
San Francisco (SFO) to Bremen (BRE) Monday, 19 Nov
United Airlines 900
Boeing 777
19 Nov 15:35 depart SFO
20 Nov 11:40 arrive FRA
United Airlines 3724
(Operated by Deutsche Lufthansa Ag)
Airbus A320
20 Nov 12:45 depart FRA
20 Nov 13:40 arrive BRE
Total Airfare (including taxes and charges): DEM 814.82
Mileage breakdowns
As a UA Premier:
Status Mileage: 14637
Mileage Bonus: 17637
Status bonus: 3659.25
Ticket Price: $372.00
Total Mileage: 36933.25
Cost per mile: $0.010
Cost per status mile: $0.025
As a UA Premier Exec:
Status Mileage: 14637
Mileage Bonus: 17637
Status bonus: 14637
Ticket Price: $372.00
Total Mileage: 47911
Cost per mile: $0.008
Cost per status mile: $0.025
------------------
Please visit The Mileage Runner's Toolkit and Unofficial United Airlines Guide
[This message has been edited by MatthewClement (edited 11-05-2001).]
Bremen (BRE) to Philadelphia (PHL) Saturday, 17 Nov
United Airlines 3673
(Operated by Deutsche Lufthansa Ag)
17 Nov 14:20 depart BRE
17 Nov 15:25 arrive FRA
United Airlines 945
Boeing 777
17 Nov 17:00 depart FRA
17 Nov 19:25 arrive ORD
United Airlines 1976
Boeing 737-300
17 Nov 20:40 depart ORD
17 Nov 23:31 arrive PHL
Philadelphia (PHL) to San Francisco (SFO) Sunday, 18 Nov
United Airlines 7333
(Operated by United Express/Atlantic Coast)
Canadair Jet
18 Nov 18:25 depart PHL
18 Nov 19:15 arrive IAD
United Airlines 225
Airbus A320
18 Nov 20:25 depart IAD
18 Nov 23:08 arrive SFO
San Francisco (SFO) to Bremen (BRE) Monday, 19 Nov
United Airlines 900
Boeing 777
19 Nov 15:35 depart SFO
20 Nov 11:40 arrive FRA
United Airlines 3724
(Operated by Deutsche Lufthansa Ag)
Airbus A320
20 Nov 12:45 depart FRA
20 Nov 13:40 arrive BRE
Total Airfare (including taxes and charges): DEM 814.82
Mileage breakdowns
As a UA Premier:
Status Mileage: 14637
Mileage Bonus: 17637
Status bonus: 3659.25
Ticket Price: $372.00
Total Mileage: 36933.25
Cost per mile: $0.010
Cost per status mile: $0.025
As a UA Premier Exec:
Status Mileage: 14637
Mileage Bonus: 17637
Status bonus: 14637
Ticket Price: $372.00
Total Mileage: 47911
Cost per mile: $0.008
Cost per status mile: $0.025
------------------
Please visit The Mileage Runner's Toolkit and Unofficial United Airlines Guide
[This message has been edited by MatthewClement (edited 11-05-2001).]