E190 Seat Maps after November 1 are now showing 11 Signature Seats. Looks like the plan to convert the fleet to 2x2 Signature Seating has changed.

Also, a new link:

http://www.midwestairlines.com/About...ypes/E190.aspx

The E9B seat map is the same seat map for the E190's in the USAir fleet according to seatguru.com.

I checked out the "virtual tour" of the E190. Are those brown leather seats? Due to the lighting, it's hard to tell if they are gray seats from US or light brown YX seats?

Speaking of YX, is it still accurate to call it YX after the 717s go away? Will the YX code still be used on the Republic/Frontier flights?

In the tour it is a YX with brown leather. The E190's for US are dark blue. The gray seats are on the E170's. I think that we have figured out who has bought the US planes!

I too, noticed the light brown seats. It appears we will have dark blue and light brown leather seating. Whatever happened to the good old days when everything was dark brown?

It's probably more accurate to describe Midwest as Midwest Connect and Frontier when the A319s are put into service. My instinct tells me to permanently join you on AirTran going forward. AirTran can get me to the same places Frontier/Midwest Connect can and there is at least uniformity among the fleet.

Dump on Midwest because of the seat color, huh? Step back and think about that for a moment.

Coach on the FL 737 (decent) and the FL 717 (very tight) is not uniform. And flights to the east coast, ATL and Florida frequently swing back and forth between the 717 and the 737, so good luck predicting more than 5 weeks out what plane you'll get in those markets.

As for the fleet, a little patience might be in order when it comes to broad pronouncements. You as a customer, of course, have every right to choose as you see fit. Every customer does. But when it comes down to it, for most customers it will come down to the standard things things...price, frequency, flight times, FF program, corporate contracts. That includes people who earlier "swear off" an airline for some wrong or perceived wrong.

Flights will operate with the YX* code, Midwest Airlines operated by Republic, Chautauqua, or Frontier. The disappearance of the 717 doesn't change that.


I'm sure you've just baited a few of our select participants with that question. However here's my take on it.

Since the first YX* flight 20+ years ago:

--When discussing the brand, the hub, the flight offerings, the market share, the marketing, and all those aspects, Midwest (or back then Midwest Express) meant both YX and YX*, whether it was outsourced (Mesa, Skywest) or owned by Midwest (Astral Aviation, dba Midwest Connect). The ownership or certificate wasn't mentioned when discussing in any of these sorts of contexts.

--When talking about corporate structure, corporate results, or specifically differentiating between companies, then "Midwest" or "Midwest Express" specifically meant that company.


So I think it is still appropriate to speak of "Midwest" when it comes to the brand, the markets served, the hub, market share, etc, etc, just as always has been done. "Midwest" in all those contexts has not equaled the planes flown under the YX certificate for 20+ years.

Looking at it another way, everything sold as "Midwest" will for the first time in several years be all under the same corporate umbrella...Republic Airways Holdings. Republic owns the Midwest brand and name, and several of their divisions will be selling some of their services under that brand name. But nothing will be outsourced to another corporation. So while it may seem odd to think of this a "no outsourcing" when it's also viewed as "100% outsourcing", if one wants to dwell on technicalities, this is will be no outsourcing once the last Skywest planes leave. Midwest is a different entity, but it is 100% operated under the corporate umbrella of Republic.

When it comes to the corporate side...things like profit or loss, it's all Republic. Midwest is part of Republic Airways Holdings. We know that Midwest will almost certainly surrender their operating certificate with the last of the 717's, but that does not mean Midwest will or will not continue to exist as a corporate entity owned by Republic. Skyway as a corporate entity continued to exist as a unit of Midwest Airlines long after they surrendered their operating certificate with the last of the BE1 and FRJ leaving. Republic may or may not have reason to continue with Midwest as an entity.

Key to all this, however, is that I don't think the distinction of "Midwest" or "Midwest Operated By" matters that much to the customer. Where there is product change, of course, that does potentially matter to the customer. But that's product change, not "operated by" change. If Midwest were still an independent entity and bought five A319's with different-colored leather seats, all standard coach, onboard entertainment for purchase, and more aggressive price discounting, it would be no different to 99% of the passengers than Frontier's A319's coming in to do the exact same thing. (As a matter of fact, that sounds remarkably like Saver's rollout a few years back, but with the blue cloth seats.) But would it matter to the customers if the planes were flown and staffed by Midwest employees, Skyway employees, or Frontier employees? Honestly? Nope.

I recognize that there will be some people who for whatever reason may shy away from Midwest because there is nothing on the Midwest certificate anymore. But the buying decisions for the vast majority come down to the same things they always do. Onboard amenities are far down on the list for most and usually only matter if all else is equal or nearly so.

OK, I'm not going to join those splitting hairs on blue vs brown vs grey (or light brown vs dark brown ) seats. I will, however, weigh in on the issue of product uniformity.

The Midwest brand and product are going through tremendous change right now, as everyone knows. This has specific meanings to Midwest Airlines (proper) employees, Republic and Frontier employees, and to Midwest's customer base.

I say my piece as a fan of Midwest thus far, and with an open mind about the future Republic- and Frontier-flown Midwest-branded flights.

Both newsmanhoss and RSVP both touch on an important point: for the time being, we Midwest passengers don't know what we're getting until we show up for the flight. 170 vs 190 vs 319? 1x2? 2x2 with or without extra legroom? 3x3? Best care cuisine that could mean a nice BOB meal or could mean nothing but garlic cheese curds for breakfast (my personal experience ). There are plenty of people who booked a month ago for a November trip in Signature on a 717 who are now on something far different. This will undoubtedly continue for the next several months, while the whole Republic/Midwest/Frontier dance gets choreographed, while the fleet gets sorted out, and hopefully while integration issues with former Midwest Airlines (proper) crews get sorted out. It doesn't mean Republic is bad; it's the nature of a major corporate change, particularly when the brand and the corporation get split apart.

It does not, however, mean that passengers have to subject themselves to unpredictability. While keeping an open mind, I, for one, am holding back on Midwest bookings until things become clearer and more predictable, even though I plan to ultimately use the Midwest brand as an option for nonstop flights that qualify for Delta Medallion Qualifying Miles. For now, however, I have to agree with RSVP that passengers have a much clearer understanding of what they're getting from Southwest or Airtran. Heck, even Delta's scheduling capriciousness looks comparitively stable.

While this period of change and unpredictability is unavoidable, it will certainly be in Republic's interest to make it as short-lived as possible. Another market reality is that passengers may indeed find themselves at home with another airline they "temporarily" use while waiting out Midwest's transition period.

By the way, are hair-splitters allowed in carry-ons these days, or does the TSA still confiscate them??

I'll be the first to agree that AirTran's 717 Coach is extremely tight. 717 or 737 both have a great biz class. That said, I'll miss the 2x1 config on the E190 to the West Coast. I can see the economics involved. If you're doing battle with AirTran and Southwest, you're not going to win the war with a 99 or 94 seat aircraft.

The uniformity I was referring to was regarding configuration. EVERY AirTran aircraft has 12 biz class seats. 717 or 737. There's no guesswork involved.

In its present state, the Midwest fleet is a patchwork of aircraft and configuration. (yes, I remember Bob Fornaro's comments about a patchwork of regiional aircraft) I hope to see some type of uniformity in the coming months.

The best care in the air slogan needs to be changed. How about this idea.

We don't know what airplane or airline we will have you fly to get there, we assume you don't care, fly "Midwest Air".

Unfortunately for airlines out there
most travelers really don't care
as long as they get the lowest fare
they'll fly anytime or anywhere
even with Midwest/Republic/Frontier/Chatauqua Air

Great points, triathlete.

I have reached the point where, when I'm flying west coast routes or other long-haul service, I am specifically looking at which options will get me there most comfortably and with in-flight amenities such as IFE, BOB, etc.

Midwest has a great BOB product, but the execution of it is horribly inconsistent. Hopefully Republic can find a way to improve that amenity. They had great seating, but after the upcoming transition it will be almost entirely gone. They still largely have no IFE, although it helps that the 319 aircraft have live TV and it's good to see that Midwest is looking at wi-fi.

Airtran doesn't have much in the way of food (I still have never seen an explanation of what happened to the once touted but now non-existent skybites). But they do have wifi, free XM and a great business class product.

Some may question how much these amenities impact actual booking decisions. Well, there has to be some value to these options, otherwise no airline would have them. It provides a competitive advantage and can attract future passengers who like those particular offerings. Now is the time for Midwest to step up and improve their product, because other than the extra legroom on some E-jets and limited BOB, they are on a path to be one of the most vanilla airlines out there. The original flight crews that provided that friendly service are nearly extinct.

I have been a loyal YX fan for many years until recently. For now, I have switched my allegiences to AirTran, but am open to going back to Midwest if they improve their product. Again, this probably isn't important to most people, but there are still some of us who value a pleasant flight experience.

Price is still somewhat important, but nonstop service, legroom, seat comfort, food options, etc all make flights more pleasant. I'm sure I am in the minority on making these a priority when booking a flight. But, just because I am in the minority doesn't mean that people who think like me don't count. In fact, our booking decisions could be the difference between a particular flight turning a profit or losing money.

I wouldn't quit your day job.

Wi-Fi makes a HUGE difference in comfort in a long flight if you have a laptop. Certainly keeps you busy and entertained.