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-   -   DCA perimeter exemptions [additional slots at DCA ] (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mid-atlantic/2116144-dca-perimeter-exemptions-additional-slots-dca.html)

GUWonder Jul 19, 2023 5:36 pm


Originally Posted by djp98374 (Post 35427839)
I don’t see how this is really a problem. Sure changes made. Putting a pre-clearance in Mexico City would make sense.

you build it they will come…

Unless Mexico wants it built, it won’t be built. I doubt that it would be a popular move with Mexicans to have US CBP running around MEX on public duty in uniform.

flyer703 Jul 19, 2023 6:33 pm


Originally Posted by bradleyl12 (Post 35427389)
Yep, it looks like that will be the case for each current domestic carrier (sorry AC, would have loved to see YVR). Here is my updated prediction:
AA: AUS
AS: SAN
B6: LAX (Had the most trouble with this one)
DL: SEA
F9: LAS
UA: DEN
WN: SAT

Okay since we're playing the Perimeter Game, here's my ticket (come on Mayor Pete - have a look at this!!!):
DL: SLC, SEA
UA: DEN
AA: SAN
AS: SNA (still holding out for this one to visit my friends in Anaheim, lol)
WN: SAT, BUR...or maybe OAK - can't decide :)

flyer703 Jul 19, 2023 6:45 pm


Originally Posted by bradleyl12 (Post 35427389)
Yep, it looks like that will be the case for each current domestic carrier (sorry AC, would have loved to see YVR). Here is my updated prediction:
...
B6: LAX (Had the most trouble with this one)
...

It's a very interesting thought. Having Mint to LAX would be wonderful (blowing the doors off of AA and AS F and - I suspect - Delta One B757) but I think the DOT will view LAX-DCA as well served already with 3 competitors and not further expand that route.

LETTERBOY Jul 19, 2023 7:20 pm


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 35428075)
Unless Mexico wants it built, it won’t be built. I doubt that it would be a popular move with Mexicans to have US CBP running around MEX on public duty in uniform.

I share your doubts about Mexican desire for preclearance. Although, I was thinking more of the possibility of domestic political opposition in the US among certain members of right side of the aisle. I don't think anyone in Washington would want to have a potential argument about that.

GUWonder Jul 19, 2023 9:02 pm

Pushing out the US border enforcement/“security” efforts abroad while getting the airlines, the host country and/or host country’s US-bound travelers to foot the bill for the facility’s operations is an easier sell in DC than it is in Mexico. The baggage of history just works out differently for US-Mexico than it would for US-Iceland.

KEF-DCA/DCA-KEF? KEF is more likely to get CBP Preclearance than CUN or MEX. But KEF-DCA is a few hundred miles more than LAX/SFO/SAN/SEA-DCA, and even if physically possible I’m not sure Icelandair wants to risk being stuck with lots of delays or misconnecting passengers because of what the CBP messes at KEF would be like with the flight banking. And the US airlines would probably throw a hissy fit if Iceland were to build out and deliver on a CBP preclearance facility at KEF — even as that wouldn’t be about DCA.

Here is the kind of stuff I would like to see if it comes to more perimeter exemptions:

AA DCA-SFO/DEN/SLC.
DL DCA-SFO
UA DCA-SEA

bradleyl12 Jul 19, 2023 9:25 pm

Well, the house just rejected the proposal to add 7 more flights. The flights could still be added later before the final version, but it appears like the new beyond-perimeter flights are likely not to happen after all.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/0...ights-00107200

flyer703 Jul 20, 2023 5:54 pm


Originally Posted by bradleyl12 (Post 35428453)
... it appears like the new beyond-perimeter flights are likely not to happen after all.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/0...ights-00107200

Maybe not dead quite yet: https://www.politico.com/news/2023/0...house-00107294"
"But the issue is far from settled. The Senate will consider the matter as part of its bill, and it could also resurface during eventual conference negotiations. Senate Commerce Committee leaders Maria Cantwell (D-Wash.) and Ted Cruz (R-Texas) have considered adding a small number of additional long-haul flights out of the airport.
"

MCO Flyer Jul 23, 2023 10:48 pm


Originally Posted by flyer703 (Post 35431018)
Maybe not dead quite yet: https://www.politico.com/news/2023/0...house-00107294"
"But the issue is far from settled. The Senate will consider the matter as part of its bill, and it could also resurface during eventual conference negotiations. Senate Commerce Committee leaders Maria Cantwell (D-Wash.) and Ted Cruz (R-Texas) have considered adding a small number of additional long-haul flights out of the airport.
"

Looks like the new Cantwell-Cruz proposed committee compromise is now 4 beyond the perimeter slot pairs (8 slots total) instead of 7 (14 total slots) from the now rejected house bill. Last time their were changes made in 2012 with 4 new slots, the DOT gave one to each of the big 4 (at the time AA, DL, UA, and US) and I assume this time it would be AA, DL, UA, and WN favored to grab the slot pairs. Still a long shot this goes through the full Senate but if I had to guess we could see the following airline proposals.

AA: SAN
DL: SEA or 2nd SLC
UA: 2nd DEN
WN: SAT

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...eauthorization

Section 107 Jul 24, 2023 5:52 pm

DCA Runway Maintenance/Repair
 
Nice article about maintaining the runways

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...3387650/?amp=1

Zorak Jul 24, 2023 6:04 pm


Originally Posted by Section 107 (Post 35441513)
Nice article about maintaining the runways

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...3387650/?amp=1

also saw this: https://www.flyreagan.com/travel-inf...tation-project

which I dug up a week or two ago when I noticed late night arrivals landing on 15.

djp98374 Feb 9, 2024 6:00 am

Throw it in here….

Commerce committee in senate approved 5 more outside perimeter routes for DCA.

flyer703 Feb 20, 2024 6:11 pm


Originally Posted by djp98374 (Post 35984213)
Commerce committee in senate approved 5 more outside perimeter routes for DCA.

The new slots were added to the Senate version of the 2023 FAA Re-authorization via the Warnock-Lummis_2 amendment https://www.commerce.senate.gov/serv...9-111164F222E0

Still needs to be approved by the full Senate then sent to conference to work out differences with the House version (which contains NO new slots), then passed by the full congress, then signed by the president. IF all that happens, the way I read the amendment:
  • 10 new slots (5 slot-pairs serving a departure/arrival combo)
  • 4 slot-pairs would be awarded to "non-limited incumbent carriers" (e.g. AA, UA, DL, WN, etc.)
  • 1 slot-pair would be awarded to a "limited incumbent carrier" that currently operates fewer than 12 slots (e.g. AS, F9 - my money on AS).
  • Each air carrier would be awarded no more than one slot-pair. So 5 different carriers would get new perimeter exemption round-trips.
Air carriers would apply for the slots and the DOJ Secretary would award them (same way they allocated most of the DCA exemptions before). The amendment says the Secretary shall consider the extent to which the exemptions will:
  • (i) enhance options for nonstop travel to beyond-perimeter airports that do not currently have nonstop service from DCA (think SAT - for sure - and maybe SAN); or
  • (ii) have a positive impact on the overall level of competition in the markets that will be served as a result of those exemptions (perhaps competition to SLC or SEA? SNA/SAN as an alternative to LAX?).
Still a long way to go but it would be great if this happens!

Because this is DC, politics is ALWAYS involved. Keep in mind the Senators who have been pushing this:
  • Cruz (TX) - SAT (we all know that one)
  • Warnock (GA) - DL HQ (SLC2)
  • Cantwell (WA) - AS HQ (LAX2 or SNA?)
  • Lummis (WY) - more DEN?

djp98374 Feb 20, 2024 9:41 pm


Originally Posted by flyer703 (Post 36016696)
The new slots were added to the Senate version of the 2023 FAA Re-authorization via the Warnock-Lummis_2 amendment https://www.commerce.senate.gov/serv...9-111164F222E0

Still needs to be approved by the full Senate then sent to conference to work out differences with the House version (which contains NO new slots), then passed by the full congress, then signed by the president. IF all that happens, the way I read the amendment:
  • 10 new slots (5 slot-pairs serving a departure/arrival combo)
  • 4 slot-pairs would be awarded to "non-limited incumbent carriers" (e.g. AA, UA, DL, WN, etc.)
  • 1 slot-pair would be awarded to a "limited incumbent carrier" that currently operates fewer than 12 slots (e.g. AS, F9 - my money on AS).
  • Each air carrier would be awarded no more than one slot-pair. So 5 different carriers would get new perimeter exemption round-trips.
Air carriers would apply for the slots and the DOJ Secretary would award them (same way they allocated most of the DCA exemptions before). The amendment says the Secretary shall consider the extent to which the exemptions will:
  • (i) enhance options for nonstop travel to beyond-perimeter airports that do not currently have nonstop service from DCA (think SAT - for sure - and maybe SAN); or
  • (ii) have a positive impact on the overall level of competition in the markets that will be served as a result of those exemptions (perhaps competition to SLC or SEA? SNA/SAN as an alternative to LAX?).
Still a long way to go but it would be great if this happens!

Because this is DC, politics is ALWAYS involved. Keep in mind the Senators who have been pushing this:
  • Cruz (TX) - SAT (we all know that one)
  • Warnock (GA) - DL HQ (SLC2)
  • Cantwell (WA) - AS HQ (LAX2 or SNA?)
  • Lummis (WY) - more DEN?

My thoughts on routes

DL for SEA since they are making it a hub. They have one from LAX and SLC
AS maybe SAN? Large military presence. Unless they look at DEN growth. They could do SJC route
If it’s SAT, then likely AA does that. Large military area helps
I think WN could get DEN or LAS route.
AA could fly to JAC for Wyoming.

I think Cruz might want a Cancun flight…….

flyer703 May 1, 2024 12:44 pm

Looks like we will be getting 5 new beyond-perimeter flight pairs! :) :tu:
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...ional-airport/
I will update the table as the new slots are awarded. Here are my final guesses:

WN: SAT
Why? Southwest is from Texas and already has a large DCA operation to/from DAL & HOU, and they already have one beyond-perimeter Texas exemption (AUS). Plus Ted would be happy, stashing up some political chits for WN.

DL: SLC
Why? They used to have 2x daily service to their SLC hub but switched one to LAX for 752 Delta One service (which I assume has been immensely profitable). At the time, they said they would rather have kept both SLC flights and just added LAX. Here's their chance to do that. (Alternate guess: SEA)

UA: DEN
Why? The UA 753 operated on this route is currently coming in and going out nearly full every day. Even with competitive 3x daily DEN service from F9, there seems to be demand for this route. Also an AM departure westbound and a PM departure eastbound would open up a lot of new connection opportunities for UA and their DCA customers.

AA: SAN
Why? This would restore the service previously offered by US and converted to LAX after the merger. It would be a new DCA destination, so very attractive to the DOT. (Alternate guesses: LAS, SFO)

AS: SNA
Why? This one is more of a hope than a guess, as I have friends in Orange County (lol). AS already operates one of the four flights to/from LAX. This is a chance to increase SoCal service, but to a unique and new DCA destination - again, attractive to the DOT. (Alternate guesses: SEA, OAK)

IADCAflyer May 6, 2024 10:43 am

There is a little wrinkle in that one slot pair goes to a non-incumbent carrier. This means on that doesn't already have a strong presence. Which can mean Alaska, JetBlue, Frontier or Allegiant or Spirit.

My bet is that whatever Alaska asks for they will get. And if they're smart, they will ask for San Diego.
I think American will ask for San Diego or San Antonio. If Alaksa asks for San Diego, American will have to settle for possibly San Antonio
I think that Delta asks for Seattle.
I think that United asks for LA or SFO (making their bid the weakest of the lot)
I think that Southwest asks for San Antonio or (wildcard) Las Vegas.

Beyond those cities, there really aren't a lot left to pick from that have both the passenger demand and a realistic expectation of service.

Outliers include SMF, SJC, SNA, and maybe ABQ or ELP. But the latter two seem the least likely.

Maybe you see a wild card from Spirit?

This is the SSSS city bonanza:
San Diego, San Antonio, Seattle, Salt Lake. And friends.


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