jeanie

I wonder about this as well. But, I still think it will be worse than the existing lifetime criteria (i.e. more points/nights/etc. required to achieve lifetime status). None of the programs I have been in over the past few years have made their programs better. They all devalue their programs. So I expect the combined MR/SPG/Ritz program to be devalued from what it is right now - including lifetime status.

mooper

Quite possible, but if they do it this way, it would likely be base nights going forward only. I expect they'd grandfather everything earned to date, if for no other reason than the challenge of deciphering base from promo in the past, similar to the way American grandfathered lifetime tallies when thry switched rules years ago.

You're correct that percentage is a better metric than absolute, but the percentage of qualifiers will go up as well, leaving my point intact. When you combine the metrics, the odds that any given member will qualify for Lifetime status at the current thresholds increases.

JackE

They only said SPG LTP will be "recognized". If they meant what you said, they could easily change the Platinum designation to "Lifetime Platinum".

X-ON

One possibility is that MAR dilute the respective tier i.e. gold becomes similar to SPG gold, Platinum becomes similar to a MR Gold+ and they introduce a new level above platinum, lets call it Diamond in lack for anything better, Diamond then becomes similar to say SPG 75 with some extra bells and whistles who knows.
Then the merging is a two step process:

(1) First step is to grandfather, i.e. recognize, everybody's previous level for example LT SPG Gold becomes LT MPG Gold and LT MR Gold becomes LT MPG Gold etc ..
(2) Second step is to promote all accounts that meet the new LT criteria in a higher LT tier , for example if the LT requirement for LT Platinum is 500 BiB nights and you where LT MR Gold with 600 BiB nights then; Bob's your Uncle and you are now LT Platinum with MPG ... and if you were LT MR Platinum with 840 BiB nights and the new criteria is 800 BiB nights then you are promoted to LT Diamond....etc ...However if you were a LT MR Platinum with 450 BiB you don't get demoted you will still keep the LT MPG Platinum status

This will mean that you merge the MR and SPG account tiers with respect to a least common denominator, in addition you can manage the top -tier criteria so that you don't mint too many LT at the top level tier. In addition you have recognized the LT tier in the previous programs. which you promised to do.

mooper

I'm with you on all of that, and I think it would logical and well-received, with one exception/clarification:

Where you mention BiB night requirements for the newly combined program, are you suggesting that only past BiB nights would count initially (i.e. nights earned via holding the branded credit cards would be dropped), or that all past elite nights would be added and counted, and that going forward, only BiB nights would be added to LT totals? I ask because even if it's possible for both programs to distinguish BiB counts versus all elite nights from their historical logs, it's not going to be palatable to elites who spent resources to accumulate promotional elite nights to have them dropped. For example, if you have 900 combined elite nights by adding your current LT MR and LT SPG counts, and 600 of those were promotional and the new Platinum and "Diamond" LT tiers are 750 and 1000 nights, if your new LT night count becomes 300, you're going to be unhappy even if you are still grandfathered at the diluted tier. However, if your full 900 counts but *going forward only* BiB nights are the only ones to be accretive to LT, it would be transparent and fair because past efforts would still be rewarded and the rules going forward would allow members to decide what activities are worth investing in.

X-ON

What I am saying is that in order to find a least common denominator I would expect only BiB nights would count this since in SPG no CC nights/ Roll-Over nights/Bonus Nights counts towards LT qualification ... so if you going to compare apples to apples you would need to ONLY consider BiB nights, at the end of the day you try to measure loyalty to MAR in one fashion or another.
The new LT tier criteria must of course accommodate for this fact that LT nights are different. In other words current MR LT PLT tier of 750 nights means something completely different if it is BiB nights. There is another complication and that is the CC product is only availble in the US - market and if the new larger MAR corp.have aspirations to grow outside the US it might be unwize to build your loyalty program around a CC product only available in one market. Yes US is the biggest market for MAR but I suspect that the growth potential is elsewhere, I guess it becomes a strategic decision Arne and co. need to make.

Yes, some people, especially those that have maximized CC and roll-over nights will probably be unhappy, MAR might go for a completely different model but the removal of roll-over nights points in this direction...

mooper

I agree on your additional points as well .. international focus needed, lowest common denominator, etc .I continue to differ only in that I think that lowest common denominator needs to be applied only going forward, as of say Jan 1 2019, as anything retroactively devaluing non-BiB will alienate much of the most loyal base.

UA-NYC

Behavioral economics...much more palatable to the consumer base to "gross up" by adding in non-BIB nights (hey look, you are getting something extra!) than "gross down" and take away. There is little to no chance Marriott will retroactively "take away" nights from it's much larger consumer base.

SPG has all the data and easily add in CC / promo / bonus nights to somewhat equalize w/MR (though of course SPGers in the course of monthly stays/spend had less opportunity than MRs to rack up lots of bonus nights...it is what it is).

mooper

Great points. The other way to equalize is bring SPG to the same nights generosity. The benefit there would be, as you said, behaviorial economics, but also the preservation of the incentives for high-margin activities (credit cards and other night-promo activities generally make bank).

RogerD408

Actually what I recall reading is ALL LT statuses will be "recognized" and not just Platinum. It's unfortunate we can only guess what they will be doing. The sad part is some will remember the speculation and believe it's fact and be disappointed MPG didn't follow through and accuse them of deceptive tactics. The programs have enough differences that some form of conversion will be needed. My guess is neither will be the going-forward program. I suggest just sit back and see what they do and stop trying to second guess what they will do (yes, it takes all the fun out of FT).

UA-NYC

I just think that while they CAN calculate it (they do know my monthly SPG AmEx spending for the past decade of course), that just feels like one add'l degree of calculation (beyond just adding of nights between the programs and possibly figuring out points via SPG stay/spend) that they won't do.

jeanie

I think this is happening already.

MODERATOR: Would it be possible to separate the speculation from the existing Lifetime Marriott Rewards Elite Status thread, and create a new thread specifically for speculation on future lifetime status in a combined program?

We know facts about the current qualifications for lifetime status, and it would be less confusing to separate the facts from the speculation.

Thanks.

mahasamatman

I predict ... no.

UA-NYC

Agreed - one of the dumber things I think UA did was to create a LT GS tier

I could see them keeping LT Plat, grandfathering in SPG Plats and anyone else who passed 750 nights, but then having an annual 100-125 night Diamond tier that doesn't have a LT equivalent

SkiAdcock

I predict no one knows what will happen & these speculative threads are a waste of time...but that's just me.

Cheers.