pinniped

I've seen a few European restaurants that do this. Italy, IIRC. Maybe only in tourist sections. Flat gratuity for the table or per person. You are correct in that I still don't like it, but at least it was on the menu and automatically added to the bill, as you cannot adjust a tip amount on many of the handheld chip & PIN systems in Europe.

This could be an improvement in the U.S., but only in restaurants as an improvement over today's system. Everywhere else I'd rather see this kind of behavior eradicated entirely.

I hate any idea that seeks to introduce tips or bribes into a place where they didn't exist before. Shame on Marriott for trying to do this in hopes of an end-game where they can eventually distort the labor demand curve for hospitality talent in a way that results in them paying their people less.

pvn

When I look at a menu and see a hamburger, the tip amount isn't "unknown". It's up to me. That's a big difference. I'm in control, so there's no excuse for me to "not know" how much the tip will be. I can tip a flat fee of $1, I can tip 20% of whatever it costs, it's up to me. How is this something that can't be accounted for when considering two different restaurants???

How is that a problem if you're just considering the final total and not worrying how much is "burger" (or "room rate") and how much is "tip" (or resort fee)? You're simultaneously advocating that people ignore what the line items are labeled and trying to micro-manage the line items.

sethb

When you left did you call the Department of Labor to find out if that was legal or if they owed you minimum wage for those hours?

clarkef

That's not entirely true. In general, if something is up to me, that implies that the choice is relatively free of punitive measures, whether legal, financial, societal, etc. For better or worse, tipping is expected in certain areas. Failure to adequately tip exposes you to several punitive measures including:
.

• derision - I believed your term for poor tippers was "cheap"
• poor service
• public shaming - a la the now-defunct website Lousy Tippers. Its slogan was "There is a consequence"
• I believe CJKATL mentioned that you may no longer be a welcome guest next time
• Racial or other stereotyping - so and so group are poor tippers. Please see this article in Eater https://www.eater.com/2012/8/9/65567...rated-food-and

I think part of the issue is that some resent feeling coerced into tipping.

pvn

But none of that is UNKNOWN. The cost, whether it be the amount you chose to leave, or the sadness you get when people think you're cheap, is KNOWN. It's UP TO YOU whether you want to pay in cash or social pressure. The "this is too variable, I can't figure it out" excuse is just that - an excuse.

innesst

Exactly! The point of tipping is not to provide money to the waiter (for which tipping is an inconsistent system fraught with fraud and abuse, and including the amount in the bill would be superior on many levels), it's so people can feel superior to others, be it the waiter or other customers!

1StRanger

I am sorry if that's the case for you and for those who have to satisfy their superiority.
For the waiters I have known, - the primary point of being tipped is to earn money. (And yes, they will accept tips even from arrogant customers.) And just in case you weren't aware: in some (many?) restaurants, the tips constitute the majority of waters' income, as the hourly rate is sometimes even below the minimum wage.
And the point for me, as a tipper, is to provide an [additional] incentive for the waiters to do their job right and [secondary] as a way to express appreciation for the job done right.

maewest

I always get a revised copy of the folio (even on award stays showing 0 balance) for this reason, though depending on when you ate breakfast vs check out I suppose it could show up later

htb

It always amazes me that in other places you can get a full meal for the amount you pay the person who takes your order and brings a plate and a drink. The amount being tipped is seemingly completely out of proportion with the service rendered.

HTB.

htb

That's exactly the problem with tip-based service: service deteriorates unless you shower everyone with money. This problem is absent when no tip is being expected and things run smoothly as well. Of course, it shifts some responsibility to management to sort out people who underperform in their position. In a tip-based environment these people just starve and are gone before long (unless of course you consider a 10% tip for horrible service the absolute minimum)...

HTB.

htb

What "housekeeping tips"? Who would ever have the idea that making up your room is not part of the price you pay for the room? Do I have to fear that they will dip my toothbrush into the toilet if I didn't leave an adequate tip? I don't want to even think about this!

But that's not the case. You are expected to tip a percentage (that has crept up from 10 to 15 to now 20%) of the price of the meal. There was even discussion in this thread that you are expected to tip $80 for opening a $400 bottle of wine. Don't now turn around and say that one can tip whatever seems appropriate. Not in the US.

HTB.

pvn

Don't tip that much, then. None of us will ever know.

pvn

What's "not the case"??? The poster I was replying to was saying that it makes sense to ignore the fact that a resort fee is tacked on and to only consider the total when making a decision. How come you can't do that when ordering food? If you know the menu price of a burger is $10, why is it impossible to account for the tip and base your decision on a cost of $11.50?

innesst

Except resort fees are typically not known at first glance when looking at prices.

Hotel owners love resort fees for the same reason restaurant owners love tips (and airlines love baggage fees while we're at it):
Income that's not disclosed in the initial price customers see, that's exempt from tax (local hotel excise taxes / social security / federal transit), and that customers generally have no choice but to pay anyway, but with some vague have waving about how things are optional.

clarkef

The questions about it being known or unknown was another poster. I agree that the expected tip is generally known in advance. I challenged the statement that tipping is completely up to you. I submit that statement is disingenuous as there are very real, likely consequences for not tipping.