Anyone bought back status this year and seen a decrease in Lifetime points?
 

Just wanted to see if it was correct that my Lifetime MR points decreased by 40000 when I bought back Platinum. Anyone else can check their buyback and Lifetime MR points to see if they decreased for you too?

I queried it by email with MR as this wasn't stated in the offer that Lifetime points would decrease and got this response...."The balance of points transferred to other Marriott Rewards accounts are no longer on the source account and do not count toward Lifetime Elite status. Points deducted for any Elite Buyback purchase also do not count toward Lifetime Elite status, so if you select to buy your status back then the points used will be deducted from the Lifetime points balance. "

I don't get that as I thought it would work the same as a stay redemption certificate which doesn't decrease your Lifetime MR points.

Although I've never bought back status, I remember reading somewhere that buyback points were deducted not only from your account but from lifetime totals too. Now there's the lifetime points calculator on the website, I guess we can verify that, and it seems you do.

I was told by customer service via phone sometime last year that buybacks would reduce the lifetime balance, and for that reason, I would never do it.

Who would purchase Platinum status? Why? How many months will it take you to get Plat status back the traditional way?

Anywhere from 3-12 ;)

Cheers.

I won't get it the traditional way this year due to working patterns. But I have a few stays booked at hotels this year where they give free parking to Platinums but not Golds. The monetary equivalent cost of buying Platinum works out close to what my parking bill would be if I was Gold.

I saw the deduction from the lifetime balance as well - had not seen that in the offer anywhere :-/

A regular 1 night guest at FS paying $150/night would recoup the points via the 500pt arrival gift and the extra 2.5pts per $ over Gold within 44 nights. So I'd imagine any busted Plat who expects that kind of stay pattern this year!

Hmmm. So I was correct when I posted that Plat buyback would probably be deducted from LT totals?
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marri...l#post24091356

Does anyone know of any other activity that lowers the lifetime points total?

Specifically, I am considering a nights and flights redemption, but don't want to do it if it will lower lifetime points.

A Travel Package award (airline miles + hotel) is a normal award and does not reduce your LT points totals.

I can confirm that they are deducting both renewals and transfers from lifetime points totals... WITHOUT ever having disclosed it. The current LT page says nothing about it, the T&C say nothing about it.

Arguing with them now as I 'was' within 20 nights and 50k points of LT Gold and discovered they have dinged me for three quarters of a million points on that total.

It's fine if I chose to do it knowing the rules, but not disclosing it and then smacking me back after YEARS of working at it (and even spending $$ to buy points) is simply unethical. :mad:

What do you mean by "transfers"? Purchased points? Points transferred into your account from an outside account (airline, etc.)? Points transferred into your account from someone else's Marriott account? Points transferred out of your account (to airline or someone else's account)?

Let us know what the final result is.

It cost you 750,000 points to buy back Plat status from having requalified for Gold? That seems like an awful lot of points for this.

They offered it to me for 25K points. Having seen on another thread that the points were deducted from lifetime totals, I declined. (I think someone on that thread got them restored, though.)

pjoalfa also included transfers in the deducted points. I'm waiting to find out which kinds (in? out? from/to other MR accounts or airline, etc. accounts?)

Sorry for the delay. Points you transfer to another person. Not points that are redeemed in any form.

So points transferred in do count? That would make sense, otherwise people could transfer points back and forth and both get lifetime points. (Though I wonder what happens if you earn Lifetime Something and then transfer out some of the points you needed to get it.)

TBH, wondering what happens is exactly the point. Applying an undisclosed rule after the fact is simply not kosher. They have T&C and those should be the rules. Period.

If they want to pull this when I'm at 489 nights and (supposedly) 1.5+ million points is dishonest. I understand the benefit was "secret" previously, but it is not now, and the page that talks about it says nothing about this "rule".

Certainly my behavior would have been very different had I known. Heck, I only transferred miles to my wife to get her AA miles toward her lifetime status. Otherwise there was no need to have her even become a member, much less redeem awards that I could just as well have redeemed myself. And that is the bulk of the 750k miles now missing.

Thanks to the resurgence of this thread, I found I was the victim of 80K deducted from lifetime miles for two years of Platinum rebuys.

Called to complain to a supervisor at the Platinum desk he:

1) gave me 40k miles (both lifetime and redeemable)
2) said if I got within 40k miles of lifetime Plat (I'm 115k now), they would comp me Platinum again for a year
3) conceded it wasn't disclosed

I asked for 80k but that was more than this guy could give (or so he said). but I figured I'm at least whole, with the extra points from Platinum over two years adding up to around 40k.

Thanks for the heads up, previous posters

The redeemable 40k miles are worth something, too, so it looks like you're coming out way ahead.

I was thinking the same thing. I would say getting everything you received without getting the 40K deposited into your account would have made you "whole" so to speak. The 40K to spend was quite a bit above and beyond and very nice of them to do that.

He "lost" 80K lifetime. He got back 40K lifetime, plus 40K redeemable, plus a year of Platinum (if he gets to within 40K of lifetime without being Platinum already, otherwise there's no upgrade involved).

Apparently, the two years of Platinum that he bought earned him an extra 40K points; however, the comparison is between what should have happened (bought Platinum without lifetime reduction) and what did (bought Platinum, had lifetime reduction) so those don't count. In a comparison with not buying Platinum they would.

Had I not bought platinum, for two years, I'd have 80k Redeemable points more than I did and 80k lifetime points more.

The benefit from Platinum (and the only reason I did it) was for the extra bonus points (which I thought brought me closer to lifetime status). Those were about 20k a year, 40k total.

So I now got back the 80k points I lost (40k in adjustment and 40k in bonuses in excess of what gold would give me).

Not sure what other benefits there are of Platinum except UA silver which I haven't flown during that time period.

To all FlyerTalk and all Marriott Rewards members:

I have done the buyback a few times and horrified to only learn this year of the deduction when the customer service representative mentioned to me that they would deduct points both from my balance and lifetime status. No publication from Marriott and no representative had ever told this to me before - both extremely misleading and unjustified to the customer!

I contacted Marriott today and the manager I spoke with was both rude and dismissive of my concerns, offering no help to make me whole or to escalate and have the policy changed. I am not giving up though and will be trying to escalate to the CEO and/or even file a class action lawsuit.

I implore anyone else also impacted to not let Marriott to step on you. The deduction is completely unfair and unacceptable, and Marriott needs to make us whole. Thanks in advance to anyone who is willing to share their experiences with me on this issue or to work alongside me in ensuring Marriott rectifies this wrong!

Thanks,
tigrr49

Been like this for years. And they gave you notice so you had a choice. But your biggest problem with your class action BS is that you have no property ownership in any Marriott points.

First, welcome to Flyertalk!

Now to the other stuff:

The CEO has bigger things to think about, such as the upcoming merger w/ Starwood. You'll get nowhere w/ a class action, and the end result of your attempting to do so could be Marriott eliminating the buyback program entirely. They're not required to offer one.

As leeky mentioned, once you were notified of the deduction of lifetime points w/ this buyback you had the option to continue w/ it or decline it. I'm assuming you declined this time.

FWIW - I've always found the buyback to be a so/so proposition. If it gets someone lounge access (assuming they stay at full-service properties) & they think they can earn back the points that are being deducted from their regular account, then it might be worth it. Otherwise I don't see it.

Cheers.

Apart from Gold buyback, I agree with you, Sharon, buyback is pretty "meh" at the points offered.

Although 7,500 points sounds cheap for silver, silvers not worth much more than the 20% (2 points per $) extra points and since you get silver after 10 nights you'd need to be spending over $375/nt to recoup the cost before the status kicks back in.

Plat at 40,000 is a lot of points. Since the main benefits of plat are welcome points and an extra 25% (2.5 points per $ over Gold) there's no value for the $100/nt SHS/FFI/RI/TPS guest with their low welcome points and in the case of RI/TPS half pointearning ratios. However a FS/CY regular staying $150/nt one-nighters would see their buyback paying dividends after 45/50 nights. Of course if they have no chance of making Plat the proper way then they'll only have a few nights to accumulate their profits. For most FS/CY 1-night-stay regulars paying $300+/nt it's well worthwhile. I suspect there's few of them though.

It's Gold at 25,000 points that's the clear bargain here for a FS stayer that enjoys lounge and breakfast. Since most concierge access rooms are at least $25/nt extra and taking the view that a Marriott point is worth a cent the 25,000 buyback points are worth $250, so the buyback investment is repaid in 10 nights. Inescapably great value!

Public announcement?
 

Just curious, where/when did Marriott publicly announce this "feature" of the buyback program where you lose the points for lifetime qualification? I/we here know that's what happens. I've posted here "warnings" to members thinking of doing this. But don't recall if/when Marriott has publicly informed members of the fact.

Here you go. It's on the front page of the buy back program.

http://www.marriott.com/marriott/elitebuyback.mi

Points used by members to buyback their previously attained Elite level will be permanently deducted from their Lifetime point balance

BTW - those interested in doing the buyback this year, even w/ the deduction from lifetime points, the deadline is April 1 2016.

Cheers.

Interesting that our 2014 subject wiki (says originally posted by mariott.com) does not contain the disclaimer. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marri...ck-back-2.html

And you can buy Plat for less than $400 (and earn a few points in the process). But that's another thread.

So you net paid 40K points (paid 80K, got back 40K in extra earnings) and 40K lifetime points (paid 80K, got back 40K in extra earnings). Now they provided you with 40K points and 40K lifetime points, putting you back to even with not having paid for Platinum, and any Platinum benefits you got (e.g. lounge access, upgrades) are gravy.

Read post 59 on the thread cited to.

Perhaps MR decided to emphasize the disclaimer this year vrs facing the same problem it had before.

That would be my guess. And presumably if they keep offering it, my money is on the verbiage re: deduction of lifetime will continue to stay on the home page.

And given the upcoming merger, this might be the last year Marriott offers buy-back. No idea of course.

Cheers.

My distinct recollection is that folks posted here that MR failed to even mention this "feature" when they first offered the program, never mind emphasize it. While one might expect a deduction for transferred points, I don't think most would expect a deduction for earned points spent to obtain a benefit. Of course MR can make whatever rules it wants to, but t'would be nice if it listed all the conditions when the offer was first made. However, as pointed out above, MR clearly listed the condition this year and so all were warned.

I am thinking once you made Lifetime gold or Lifetime Plat, you will stay as a gold/Plat for the rest of your life. Then the accumulated points do not matter that much and you can transfer points to family members or friends to help them buy back their status, right?

Correct.

Cheers.

Cool. So if someone will lend me a few hundred thousand points (if you're transferring them to your friend, send them by way of me so I can pick up lifetime status in the middle, then I'll send them on) we're good to go.

:D :D

To SkiAdcock:

As you can see on this thread, many customers did NOT know about the lifetime balance deduction because as stated in my post: "No publication from Marriott and no representative had ever told this to me before." The company has a legal obligation to disclose such terms clearly and directly to customers. Hiding such terms in micro fine print violates that legal requirement. Furthermore, I could care less if Marriott eliminates the buyback program -> it is currently hurting their customers more than it is helping.

My post is meant to help others by:

1) warning them of the situation
2) giving others a means to be made whole (via a class action suit should it come to that) if they have already been impacted either this year or in previous years as I was

So while I respect your opinion, I sure hope others won't think like you. If we all had the same "a class action will get you nowhere" attitude, then we would be living in an uncivilized world where corporations abuse the rights of customers.

Thanks,
tigrr49