+1.
Exactly what I want for breakfast just simple yogurt, oatmeal, or cereals and some fruits. My solution as business traveler is to stay away from CY unless it is the only hotel within 10 miles radius of my destination.

May I also add some "overseas" perspective? Per Diem rules in Germany where I live and work are somewhat different from the US-rules.

For starters, as socrates mentioned, most (if not all) here only get a 50% reduced rate for their first and last day of travel. The second reduction takes place once the hotel has included breakfast in their rate (and shows such); that gets you another deduction of your per diem. And finally, the standard per-diem is substantially lower than your US-counterparts, like 24 Euro per full day, half of that if not exact full 24 hours traveling. If breakfast is included in the rate (and NOT part of Elite benefits!) you get 4.80 Euro deducted from that allowance.

Given the breakfast rate of 21 Euro at the Courtyard down the street or 26 Euro at the Marriott FS I currently stay at you probably can understand why I consider free breakfast for Elites an important perk as it leaves me with at least some money to buy food other than the Burger King value meal - expensing meals as some reported here are not possible at all due to taxation laws (or would be at least be a major headache for accounting, so companies don't do that).

Greetings - Dirk

When Mr. Nacho was travelling for business (he travelled less than 15 days in a year), he works in Denmark. He said as long as you put the food expenses into the hotel bill, then there shouldn't be any problem, as long as you don't abuse it.

Mr. Nacho used to attend some meetings with other European Telecommunication regulators (I used to go along because his J class ticket can be turned into 2 Ys). The Germans there told us that their company doesn't allow flying unless the destination is not reachable by train within 12 hours. The meeting took place in Prague and it took them 11 hr 55 mins by train, and they were so annoyed.

I think it's nice to have free breakfast as Gold, but to us, it's just as nice to pick up our breakfast from a Lidl - 29 EUR cent for a croissant which is comparible to the French ones. I guess travelling for business is different.

The CYs I stayed in Europe are actually quite nice - especially compared to Accor's. I'm looking forward to our first CY stay in HK.

The lack of points on incidental charges is really incomprehensible, particularly as Marriott positions Courtyard as full service in so many markets. European Courtyards can be quite nice and have a decent full restaurant/bar (not just the bistro concept).

Why does eating at a restaurant at one Marriott property earn points, but not at another?

As I said in my earlier post, out of principle it drives me to look off-property for any food options where I might otherwise have considered eating in-house.

After reading 94 posts, I've come to the sad realization that it's not all about us frequent, elite travelers. What I've realized is Marriott can have a brand that runs profitably without catering to us. It's sobering. It's scary. It's an ego hit.

While we have issues with the CY, it seems to be chugging along just fine. Maybe it's not the hotel for business travelers it was in the late eighties, but is seems to be a relatively upscale choice for the budget minded. Maybe all that was missing from that niche was a close-to full serve restaurant that served alcohol and food throughout the day. Maybe Marriott got it right, and we just don't realize or cannot accept that right for Marriott isn't right for us.

It seems Marriott is trying to get us away from CYs and into SHS and FI. Maybe by doing that, they get our business and the business of those less frequent travelers who may think of SHS and FI as being more downscale than CY. Most Plats will go towards the SHS for the free breakfast and points, while I would guess many who don't care about points and perks would go to the CY for it's more upscale surroundings.

In other words, the problem may not be Marriott. The problem may be us. We just don't get that every brand doesn't have to be catered to us in order to succeed. Ouch.

I've stayed at a CY probably a dozen times in the past month and only a SHS once. I've been upgraded to a suite the past 5 stays in a row, but still don't think I'm getting the value I should at the new(er) SHS locations.

I am going to start seeking out SHS due to the breakfast alone. I do like their new "suite feeling" rooms that have a separate sitting area to get some work done.

It's an interesting theory, but a large percentage of guests at any hotel on a typical night (not New Year's Eve, for instance) are frequent travelers. I can't imagine a hotel brand affirmatively discouraging frequent travelers from staying there, but that's what Courtyard seems to be doing. It works for me!

Bruce

My choice is based on location and price more than perks, so I'll still stay at CYs. I'll just stop griping under my breath.

The real issue here is one that comes along every now and then: Is it possible for a company to treat its customers in a distinctly different manner depending on which arm of the business the customer is dealing with? A Marriott elite is treated one way at a FS Marriott or Ren, and another way at CY.

I remember how bad it was when Delta Air Lines decided it wasn't going to recognize its elite flyers on the old DL Express (the all coach 737-200s)... no elite boarding, no elite seating etc. It was a real bad business practice to treat elites royally by one hand of your company and not recognize them at all by the other hand.

I think Elites are just a small part of Marriott's hotels guests. Yes some of the FTer spend tons of $$$ per year in hotels but they are not the only ones.

Again, Courtyard is international - and from what I can see from FT, CY outside the US and Canada are nicer. I saw Marriott's own blog saying that CY is their fastest growing brand internationally. The concept works, and I like the CY's I stayed at too.

Of course I don't like the fact that you don't points for spending any $$$ other than the room at CYs. I do hope that Marriott can change that, btw has anyone mention this to Marriott Concierge?

Marriott Concierge can't affect the no incidentals getting points.

I'm still waiting to find out WHY incidental spends don't count. It's been like that for years. What is the rationale for no incidental spend points....

Cheers.

Socrates - If the brand managers for Courtyard would read this thread, the amount of money they would save in marketing studies and consulting fees from the information contained here would pay for everyone to have a free breakfast in CY for a year.

This week I am at a client site, I was offered either the Courtyard or a Hyatt Regency. Even though I'm loyal to Marriott, guess which one I chose? And to top it off, the corporate rate includes breakfast, which is one of the best I've seen at any hotel properties.

Regarding the bedding, I don't have an issue with the mattresses but the sheets seem thin (low thread count) and the comforter is thin as well. It's not horrible, but the HGI is better.

Many HGI properties look to be in the year 1996 but it's difficult to beat the values HGI offers. Personally, I could care less about the "Bistro" or hanging out in the lobby in the evenings.

You ignore one of the major perks of elite status; that is that you are treated as an elite at all of the program's properties. I would guess that the single biggest reason for Marriott's leading position in hotels is the MR program. While, it may (or may not) be as you state, that is that CY does just fine without elites and Marriott doesn't want us there (very doubtful), Marriott has to weigh that against the damage done to the very reason for its success: Marriott Rewards.

Huh????

Different brands treat us differently. I'd love to get 500 welcome points at an FI. It doesn't happen. I'd love to get full points at an RI. That doesn't happen. Where is the CL access at the SHS? Or a resort, for that matter.

If MI has made a decision that losing elites business at CY makes more sense than throwing in free breakfast, and CY is a growing brand, it's hard to fault them for not bending over backwards for our business. We still get other recognition and perks, but MI doesn't feel the need to throw in the one thing that will give them more elite business. As much as we want to stomp our feet, hold our breath and say we won't stop until we get free breakfast, MI obviously thinks the CY brand is find ignoring those requests.

I suppose this is non-debatable. But I'd still like to understand their reasoning. I don't have a clue right now. It's hard to believe that the revenue from paid breakfasts (which must be pretty rare) exceeds the loss from a signficant number of elite travelers avoiding Courtyards, but what do I know?

Bruce