Is using 60,000 pts worth it for saving $550 plus tax?
Jul 29, 2010, 4:45 pm
#31
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Airline miles are a wholly different currency, based as they are on distance and class travelled. I am not a member of any airline program as I dont fly frequently with premium carriers. I could guess on the answer, but its pretty pointless, airline miles are calculated on an entirely different premise.
Lets say I can spend $100 for 1 night at a Marriott and would get 1500 points, soley because I spent the cash. If I redeem 10,000 points for the night the value of the redemption is somehow less than $100
Why, because I didn't get the opportunity to spend it
MR is calculated on the amount spent. You don't spend when you redeem, hence calculating the effect of points not earned as a result of money not spent is a fallacy. The exception to the rule would be, as you quite rightly state, megabonuses lost that would otherwise be gained were that particular redemption to have been paid...
Lets say I can spend $100 for 1 night at a Marriott and would get 1500 points, soley because I spent the cash. If I redeem 10,000 points for the night the value of the redemption is somehow less than $100
Why, because I didn't get the opportunity to spend it
MR is calculated on the amount spent. You don't spend when you redeem, hence calculating the effect of points not earned as a result of money not spent is a fallacy. The exception to the rule would be, as you quite rightly state, megabonuses lost that would otherwise be gained were that particular redemption to have been paid...
Jul 29, 2010, 4:55 pm
#32
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MR is calculated on the amount spent. You don't spend when you redeem, hence calculating the effect of points not earned as a result of money not spent is a fallacy. The exception to the rule would be, as you quite rightly state, megabonuses lost that would otherwise be gained were that particular redemption to have been paid...
I just go by the old axiom of if I don't want to spend the money, I use points. If I don't want to spend points, I spend the money. If I don't want to spend the points or the money, I don't go on the trip.
Jul 29, 2010, 10:19 pm
#33
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 567
...
I'm not saying that you have to include the foregone Marriott points in the calculation - you don't. But it's not because you haven't earned them yet. It's because the earning ratio is fixed (excluding bonuses, etc.). You're always going to earn 15 points per dollar (for Plat), so factoring them in will always have the exact same effect on your calculation.
I'm not saying that you have to include the foregone Marriott points in the calculation - you don't. But it's not because you haven't earned them yet. It's because the earning ratio is fixed (excluding bonuses, etc.). You're always going to earn 15 points per dollar (for Plat), so factoring them in will always have the exact same effect on your calculation.
Five Nights stay at JW Grand Rapids (Cat 4) for $ 1.134.30 (net: $ 995) or 80K MRp: Worth of one point 1,42/1,19 cents
Five Nights stay at Chicago M MM (Cat 6) for $ 1.295.83 (net: $ 1045) or 120K MRp: Worth of one point 1,00/0,89 cents
Jul 29, 2010, 10:38 pm
#34
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I generally don't sweat exact cents-per-point on hotel points. I look at ballpark valuations: what would I really spend in terms of real cash in this city for a decent bed if hotel programs did not exist? I use that as a rough gauge to inform my decision about whether to redeem.
Chances are good that if I'm already staying in a Marriott, considering a 2nd room for $110/nt., I will pay for the room. In fact, with a known total Marriott expenditure that high I'd snag at least one $1000 Gift Card if not a $2000 card. (Depends on what other Marriott activity I had planned in the near future.) So I'd drop my total cost for both rooms by about 9% and I'd still earn the 20 points per dollar (since the GC is a Marriott purchase) and enjoy the breakfast, cocktail, and other benefits of having a 2nd room.
If you wanted to nitpick, and I certainly would consider the value of the foregone points considering you are indeed frequent Marriott guests, your "value per point" is getting down into the 0.8c range.
However, before you pay for a 2nd room, check with this hotel on the definition of a "Presidential" Suite. In some places I've stayed, that's huge - tons of room to sleep four. Or 8, or 12... (Okay, maybe not 12.
) But you've described a $169 confirmable room, which leads me to believe it might be more of a "regular" suite, in which case for 8 days I'd want the 2nd room.
Chances are good that if I'm already staying in a Marriott, considering a 2nd room for $110/nt., I will pay for the room. In fact, with a known total Marriott expenditure that high I'd snag at least one $1000 Gift Card if not a $2000 card. (Depends on what other Marriott activity I had planned in the near future.) So I'd drop my total cost for both rooms by about 9% and I'd still earn the 20 points per dollar (since the GC is a Marriott purchase) and enjoy the breakfast, cocktail, and other benefits of having a 2nd room.
If you wanted to nitpick, and I certainly would consider the value of the foregone points considering you are indeed frequent Marriott guests, your "value per point" is getting down into the 0.8c range.
However, before you pay for a 2nd room, check with this hotel on the definition of a "Presidential" Suite. In some places I've stayed, that's huge - tons of room to sleep four. Or 8, or 12... (Okay, maybe not 12.
) But you've described a $169 confirmable room, which leads me to believe it might be more of a "regular" suite, in which case for 8 days I'd want the 2nd room.
Jul 29, 2010, 11:43 pm
#35
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 552
It does not. If you exclude your earning potential (including bonuses!) out of your equation, than you will overestimate worth of points and your decission might not be in the best interest of your pocket. If you like to see what makes the difference, here are two examples:
Five Nights stay at JW Grand Rapids (Cat 4) for $ 1.134.30 (net: $ 995) or 80K MRp: Worth of one point 1,42/1,19 cents
Five Nights stay at Chicago M MM (Cat 6) for $ 1.295.83 (net: $ 1045) or 120K MRp: Worth of one point 1,00/0,89 cents
Five Nights stay at JW Grand Rapids (Cat 4) for $ 1.134.30 (net: $ 995) or 80K MRp: Worth of one point 1,42/1,19 cents
Five Nights stay at Chicago M MM (Cat 6) for $ 1.295.83 (net: $ 1045) or 120K MRp: Worth of one point 1,00/0,89 cents
And, of course, that's true, but I chose to ignore that for a couple of reasons:
1 - I was stating my opinion that it is NOT a mathematical fallacy to take the foregone points into account. (Though the fixed earning structure of Marriott limits the value of this exercise to promotions and taxes, with promotions being significantly more important than taxes).
2 - Occupancy tax rates don't vary wildly from place to place. They almost always make up a small(ish) but material portion of the hotel bill, and as a result, their impact on redemption rates is minimal. In your example, if you apply the Chicago tax rate to the total price of the Grand Rapids hotel and redemption rate (meaning you have a total cost of $1,134 with a base rate of $914), you get 1.21 cpp, vs. your 1.19. Certainly not a material difference.
But, absolutely, I agree with your mathematical concept - I just don't think it's material.
Jul 30, 2010, 1:41 pm
#36
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Your husband has 500,000 miles - almost enough for two travel packages. I'd be in a hoarding mode were I in such a position.
Not sure if there are any off price travel card deals at the moment, but that would further mitigate your costs without compromising your point earning.
Jul 30, 2010, 3:58 pm
#37
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Definitely I decided, that really although I'd rather not spend any points as of yet (we haven't done so in the 2 years since he joined), and it is really fun to see them accumulate (yup - I fell for the whole airline mile addiction years ago), I'm spending them. The overall comfort of the second room is desirable - having the kids each have their own double bed, an extra bathroom, extra tv that won't be used anyway, is nice. It's going to be hot as sin in St. Louis, so we may enjoy the hotel a lot more than if it were 80 degrees instead of the predicted upper 90's.
Still, he's getting 10 nights credit, plus the Fairfield Inn bonus (2 stays, one each way as I'm driving), spending about $1600 or so at the Marriott, and if he gets another 3 nights (may go to Williamsburg) another 30,000 bonus. So, really, we're not losing that many points. And we have enough for a nice trip next year (although we're going to Ko Olina for our week and paying for another, as it's not worth 250,000 for a week there when I can rent one for $2000 or so).
The math - makes my head hurt too!!! But it's fun.
Thanks to all of you experts. If anyone wants a trip report of the hotel, I'd be glad to give one. No one at the front desk seems to know very much about their "presidential suite" other than it only has one bathroom, and maybe isn't quite the size of 2 rooms? Doesn't make much sense to me, but they really only use it for bridal couples I think. This is definitely a business hotel, but I like that. The clientele is up and out early, very polite, and the staff is very professional. BTW, I've gotten this hotel twice for $37 from priceline about 4 years ago. Used to be you actually KNEW you were getting this hotel, till they re-zoned St. Louis.
Still, he's getting 10 nights credit, plus the Fairfield Inn bonus (2 stays, one each way as I'm driving), spending about $1600 or so at the Marriott, and if he gets another 3 nights (may go to Williamsburg) another 30,000 bonus. So, really, we're not losing that many points. And we have enough for a nice trip next year (although we're going to Ko Olina for our week and paying for another, as it's not worth 250,000 for a week there when I can rent one for $2000 or so).
The math - makes my head hurt too!!! But it's fun.
Thanks to all of you experts. If anyone wants a trip report of the hotel, I'd be glad to give one. No one at the front desk seems to know very much about their "presidential suite" other than it only has one bathroom, and maybe isn't quite the size of 2 rooms? Doesn't make much sense to me, but they really only use it for bridal couples I think. This is definitely a business hotel, but I like that. The clientele is up and out early, very polite, and the staff is very professional. BTW, I've gotten this hotel twice for $37 from priceline about 4 years ago. Used to be you actually KNEW you were getting this hotel, till they re-zoned St. Louis.
Aug 3, 2010, 4:14 pm
#38
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If I had the cash I'd suck it up and pay the $110 per night for 5 nights. Particularly if I needed nights for elite status or for a promo (though that doesn't appear to be the case here).
However that being said I did spend 120k points a few years ago for 2 nights at Marriott Waterfront in Sydney over NYE (this required a "pointbuster" award under the old system). I just could not stomach $600/night even though the ROR was low. But $500 for 5N is a better deal.
It really all depends on your own financial situation and how many points you have now and how many you need in the future for what you plan to do. It is often hard to find redemption values > .01 per point, but maybe easier to do with 5 night awards at Cat 6-8 level.
In your case, since you really do have points to burn and can't use the extra room for Plat qualification, I'd probably use the points. The result would be different if (like me) you didn't earn so many points as quick as you do.
However that being said I did spend 120k points a few years ago for 2 nights at Marriott Waterfront in Sydney over NYE (this required a "pointbuster" award under the old system). I just could not stomach $600/night even though the ROR was low. But $500 for 5N is a better deal.
It really all depends on your own financial situation and how many points you have now and how many you need in the future for what you plan to do. It is often hard to find redemption values > .01 per point, but maybe easier to do with 5 night awards at Cat 6-8 level.
In your case, since you really do have points to burn and can't use the extra room for Plat qualification, I'd probably use the points. The result would be different if (like me) you didn't earn so many points as quick as you do.
Aug 3, 2010, 6:33 pm
#39
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Yeah, what he said. Cheers.
Sep 2, 2010, 5:41 pm
#40
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I'm in the same boat often, paying 20,000 for a RI that I could probably get for $99 at times. Problem is that I have too many points, too little time and they sit there devaluating. So I treat other families to rooms when traveling on weekends for kids sports, often they drive me and treat me a bit so its a little nicer.
My answer is NO if you are confident of using the points in the near future for something better, nicer, bigger, longer, etc and YES if you feel they are going to sit there unused & waiting for a period of time.
And about one cent per point seems to be the bare minimum earn / burn ratio most folks try to use. But you have to do what makes sense for you at your particular stage in life... Waiting for retirement like I previously thought is a lose-lose situation with annual / bi-annual "enhancement" devaluations.
My answer is NO if you are confident of using the points in the near future for something better, nicer, bigger, longer, etc and YES if you feel they are going to sit there unused & waiting for a period of time.
And about one cent per point seems to be the bare minimum earn / burn ratio most folks try to use. But you have to do what makes sense for you at your particular stage in life... Waiting for retirement like I previously thought is a lose-lose situation with annual / bi-annual "enhancement" devaluations.
I just did 5 nights at a MVCI in Orlando last week, probably my only pleasure trip in 2 years and likely not until next summer.
An incredible 2BR villa for 150,000 points or 1/10 of my stash. Yet I could buy it for $915 (incl taxes) while receiving 2 x 14 day Sea World tickets each worth $117 (I know because had to buy a 3rd). No timeshare presentation deal whatsoever.
With a value of .45 cents per point, I just couldn't pull the trigger and paid cash.
So don't listen to me in the future...
Last edited by joshua362; Sep 3, 2010 at 6:54 am Reason: clarity - the 2BR villa was 150,000 pts or $900 plus 2 SW tickets
Sep 2, 2010, 5:50 pm
#41
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Good for you - do it your way.
Where not a good value for points, if the choice is one crowded room or two in comfort, I'd go for two. and assuming that you'd not feel good paying over $600 dollars for room two, the points option is your only way out of a crowded room.
If you look at total trip cost and the quality of the trip with two rooms vs one, you likely got a bargain.
Where not a good value for points, if the choice is one crowded room or two in comfort, I'd go for two. and assuming that you'd not feel good paying over $600 dollars for room two, the points option is your only way out of a crowded room.
If you look at total trip cost and the quality of the trip with two rooms vs one, you likely got a bargain.