May 11, 2019, 9:00 am
Last edit by: SanDiego1K
Description of resolution can be found here: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/31088204-post759.html
Outrageous No-Show Fee Incurred At St. Regis Aspen
Mar 23, 2019, 2:27 pm
#451
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Colorado
Programs: Lifetime UA 1K, Lifetime Hilton Diamond, Lifetime Marriott Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 1,261
I don't have a problem with these terms if they are disclosed at booking. The problem the OP (and many others) have is that the amount of the penalty is either not disclosed, or is only disclosed after the booking has been finalized in a follow-up email. Those practices are unconscionable.
I have a big problem with these terms. I pre-paid for the room with points. I fully understand that if I cancel after the cancellation date, I will lose the points.
But why would a hotel then charge me $899 if I don't come, and nothing if I come. If I cancel they keep the points and can easily re-sell the room. This makes no sense to me at all. I have no idea how you can think this is ok.
Marriott has lost $16,000 of my spend in the first quarter over this. I have not booked a single Marriott room in 40 nights of travel. Unless they change this policy I'm done with Marriott.
Mar 23, 2019, 6:41 pm
#452
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: ORD
Programs: United Plat 2MM, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,727
Let me make sure I understand the previous 450 messages:
On the second point, I am not a lawyer, but would expect that if one cancelled shortly after the notification of the cancellation, the property would not be able to collect the fee. If they did, the guest would be entirely within their rights to send a letter saying "By accepting my booking, the hotel agrees to pay me a million dollars if I cancel within 60 days."
On the first point, the opinion of this forum seems to be that this is a problem for the property. I don't think it is. It's not a bug, it's a feature. Someone that we never wanted as a customer won't stay there again and we get to keep a thousand bucks? Woo-hoo! Bad press on the internet? This is good press to their clientele: "We keep the riff-raff away!"
I suspect Marriott doesn't really care about this and has bigger fish to fry. But if they want to stop this, the solution is for Marriott to call up the property and say, "Based on what we are hearing, your new branding is 'Fairfield Inn'. We'll be there in 24 hours to check on this. Looking forward to the free breakfast."
- The OP got caught in weather, informed the property, and arrived somewhere between around 12 and 20 hours late.
- The property chose to process this as a no-show and not a late arrival. This happens to be the alternative that generates the most revenue for the hotel. The first the OP was told of this was when he checked out, and it was too late to process this the other way.
- The hotel has a history of disliking award bookings. It is felt that this detracts from the exclusivity they want to project.
- Can the terms of a booking inside of 60 days include a multi-thousand dollar cancellation fee for cancellation inside 60 days if that fee is not disclosed before the booking is made?
On the second point, I am not a lawyer, but would expect that if one cancelled shortly after the notification of the cancellation, the property would not be able to collect the fee. If they did, the guest would be entirely within their rights to send a letter saying "By accepting my booking, the hotel agrees to pay me a million dollars if I cancel within 60 days."
On the first point, the opinion of this forum seems to be that this is a problem for the property. I don't think it is. It's not a bug, it's a feature. Someone that we never wanted as a customer won't stay there again and we get to keep a thousand bucks? Woo-hoo! Bad press on the internet? This is good press to their clientele: "We keep the riff-raff away!"
I suspect Marriott doesn't really care about this and has bigger fish to fry. But if they want to stop this, the solution is for Marriott to call up the property and say, "Based on what we are hearing, your new branding is 'Fairfield Inn'. We'll be there in 24 hours to check on this. Looking forward to the free breakfast."
Mar 23, 2019, 6:59 pm
#453
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2012
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Posts: 11,247
I had a two night stay booked at the Marriott at Circular Quay in Sydney last August 31st which I had already checked in for and which was well past the cancellation window. My QF F flight DFW-SYD was delayed 24 hours due to Mechanical. I messaged the property through the APP and explained the situation. They, without issue and without charge, cancelled my first night and changed the reservation to a 1 night stay. When I arrived at 7:30 am the day after my original booking I was checked-in early and upgraded to a Junior Suite with a smile. Fantastic Customer Service.
I am all for the 48 hour check-in. It allows you to comminicate directly with the hotel. I have also been able to confirm suite upgrades before arrival if I haven't already been upgraded prior to check-in. I also advise the hotel again what time I will be arriving when enroute to the hotel so it is fresh in their minds when I get there.
James in Phoenix
I am all for the 48 hour check-in. It allows you to comminicate directly with the hotel. I have also been able to confirm suite upgrades before arrival if I haven't already been upgraded prior to check-in. I also advise the hotel again what time I will be arriving when enroute to the hotel so it is fresh in their minds when I get there.
James in Phoenix
Mar 24, 2019, 6:25 am
#454
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Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Buffalo, but live from suitcase
Programs: Delta, AA, Marriott
Posts: 240
There is a difference between a funds hold and an actual charge, and they represent different transaction codes to the credit card isssuer. The funds hold ensures you have adequate credit for a potential charge and while it does lower your credit availability it is not an actual charge. When a funds hold Is done, it can be followed up by later by an actual charge or removal. It will also automatically be removed if not re posted after a certain number of days.
Mar 24, 2019, 6:40 am
#455
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Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Buffalo, but live from suitcase
Programs: Delta, AA, Marriott
Posts: 240
Let me make sure I understand the previous 450 messages:
On the second point, I am not a lawyer, but would expect that if one cancelled shortly after the notification of the cancellation, the property would not be able to collect the fee. If they did, the guest would be entirely within their rights to send a letter saying "By accepting my booking, the hotel agrees to pay me a million dollars if I cancel within 60 days."
On the first point, the opinion of this forum seems to be that this is a problem for the property. I don't think it is. It's not a bug, it's a feature. Someone that we never wanted as a customer won't stay there again and we get to keep a thousand bucks? Woo-hoo! Bad press on the internet? This is good press to their clientele: "We keep the riff-raff away!"
I suspect Marriott doesn't really care about this and has bigger fish to fry. But if they want to stop this, the solution is for Marriott to call up the property and say, "Based on what we are hearing, your new branding is 'Fairfield Inn'. We'll be there in 24 hours to check on this. Looking forward to the free breakfast."
- The OP got caught in weather, informed the property, and arrived somewhere between around 12 and 20 hours late.
- The property chose to process this as a no-show and not a late arrival. This happens to be the alternative that generates the most revenue for the hotel. The first the OP was told of this was when he checked out, and it was too late to process this the other way.
- The hotel has a history of disliking award bookings. It is felt that this detracts from the exclusivity they want to project.
- Can the terms of a booking inside of 60 days include a multi-thousand dollar cancellation fee for cancellation inside 60 days if that fee is not disclosed before the booking is made?
On the second point, I am not a lawyer, but would expect that if one cancelled shortly after the notification of the cancellation, the property would not be able to collect the fee. If they did, the guest would be entirely within their rights to send a letter saying "By accepting my booking, the hotel agrees to pay me a million dollars if I cancel within 60 days."
On the first point, the opinion of this forum seems to be that this is a problem for the property. I don't think it is. It's not a bug, it's a feature. Someone that we never wanted as a customer won't stay there again and we get to keep a thousand bucks? Woo-hoo! Bad press on the internet? This is good press to their clientele: "We keep the riff-raff away!"
I suspect Marriott doesn't really care about this and has bigger fish to fry. But if they want to stop this, the solution is for Marriott to call up the property and say, "Based on what we are hearing, your new branding is 'Fairfield Inn'. We'll be there in 24 hours to check on this. Looking forward to the free breakfast."
1) If he checked in both rooms before the cut-off time. But I do not see where he states he did. If he did not do so before noon, he is a no-show
2) In his post 28 he admits that the receipt he got on booking stated cash charge if canceled after cut-off date. But it also says he can challenge that and have the points used instead on SPGs policy. He might be able to fight that but SPG also clearly states they can change award rules at their pleasure.
Mar 24, 2019, 7:05 am
#456
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2) In his post 28 he admits that the receipt he got on booking stated cash charge if canceled after cut-off date. But it also says he can challenge that and have the points used instead on SPGs policy. He might be able to fight that but SPG also clearly states they can change award rules at their pleasure.
Mar 24, 2019, 8:56 am
#457
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: ORD
Programs: United Plat 2MM, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,727
In message 1 the OP said that the hotel manager told him that had he checked in via the app, he could have avoided this. The property also could have checked him in, but instead chose to process this in such a way that would incur an additional $1000 for the hotel. Given that, have I misstated or misunderstood anything?
Mar 24, 2019, 9:00 am
#458
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Mar 24, 2019, 9:15 am
#459
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: ORD
Programs: United Plat 2MM, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,727
Often1, are you an attorney? I'd like to better understand something. I have been led to believe that a contract is an agreement, and for the parties to agree, they have to know what's in it. As such, if the property sends a letter at T-65 that says "this is the T-60 cancellation fee", it is valid, because a guest who disagrees with that has an opportunity to disagree and cancel at T-64, 63, all the way to T-61. However, if they send this at T-59, it is not valid since the guest has no opportunity to disagree.
Mar 24, 2019, 9:19 am
#460
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: England - UK
Posts: 512
In message 1 the OP said that the hotel manager told him that had he checked in via the app, he could have avoided this. The property also could have checked him in, but instead chose to process this in such a way that would incur an additional $1000 for the hotel. Given that, have I misstated or misunderstood anything?
Mar 24, 2019, 10:02 am
#461
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Often1, are you an attorney? I'd like to better understand something. I have been led to believe that a contract is an agreement, and for the parties to agree, they have to know what's in it. As such, if the property sends a letter at T-65 that says "this is the T-60 cancellation fee", it is valid, because a guest who disagrees with that has an opportunity to disagree and cancel at T-64, 63, all the way to T-61. However, if they send this at T-59, it is not valid since the guest has no opportunity to disagree.
Nobody seems to complain that if one books a room which permits cancellations without penalty until T-24, that one change one's mind and cancel and the property is out the funds. If the property does not like those terms, it should not agree to them.
Mar 24, 2019, 10:13 am
#462
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 902
Often1, are you an attorney? I'd like to better understand something. I have been led to believe that a contract is an agreement, and for the parties to agree, they have to know what's in it. As such, if the property sends a letter at T-65 that says "this is the T-60 cancellation fee", it is valid, because a guest who disagrees with that has an opportunity to disagree and cancel at T-64, 63, all the way to T-61. However, if they send this at T-59, it is not valid since the guest has no opportunity to disagree.
No letter or email sent after a booking has been completed is, in and of itself, sufficient to change the terms of a reservation. In this event, the email appears to have been sent to clarify the amount of the cancellation penalty which the website does not specify. Both the terms of the booking and Bonvoy’s T&Cs (which are incorporated in the reservation terms) are abundantly clear that in the event of a late cancellation or a no-show the points will be returned to the member’s account and the guest will be required to pay a cancellation penalty. Some properties however (I imagine this is due to poor coding of their rates in the new booking system) do not inform of the exact amount that will be due. So that seems to be the purpose of the email. Also, OP’s booking apparently had a provision allowing to reverse a cash penalty for points under the old SPG rules—whether that provision was superseded by the new T&Cs of the loyalty program is a matter left for discussion.
Mar 24, 2019, 10:47 am
#463
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I'm amazed that nobody from Marriott has commented on this thread nor responded to the various reports of this on the travel blogs. You know damn well they've read about this. The lurkers are all over other threads.
Making this worse is the fact that the property is managed not by a third-party management company, but Marriott itself.
Has the original poster received a response, either from Marriott or the credit card company?
Making this worse is the fact that the property is managed not by a third-party management company, but Marriott itself.
Has the original poster received a response, either from Marriott or the credit card company?
Mar 24, 2019, 11:08 am
#464
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 698
I'm amazed that nobody from Marriott has commented on this thread nor responded to the various reports of this on the travel blogs. You know damn well they've read about this. The lurkers are all over other threads.
Making this worse is the fact that the property is managed not by a third-party management company, but Marriott itself.
Has the original poster received a response, either from Marriott or the credit card company?
Making this worse is the fact that the property is managed not by a third-party management company, but Marriott itself.
Has the original poster received a response, either from Marriott or the credit card company?
it does not bode well for them at all that they are ignoring the problem. even if its a bigger issue, they should have resolved it for the op, even as a gesture of good will if the prop is refusing to cooperate