Has Marriott always been this virulently anti-guest?
 

Just asking, because for 20 years we focused our hotel budget almost exclusively to SPG properties. Reason was, as Lifetime Platinum members, we received world-class service in terms of recognition and benefits. Upgrades, sometimes they were pre-allocated. If not pre-allocated, they were warmly offered at check-in. Now as Titanium for life, it's like, "where's the upgrade?" better rooms available for sale only. In terms of Breakfast, this was a most wonderful benefit at SPG's leading locations. Now, it's like "no breakfast for you, our lounge is closed and we don't offer breakfast when the lounge is closed", or if there is breakfast, the offering seems to be low quality. With SPG, there was a warm heart, and they cared, and they showed it. Now, with Marriott, there's a big fat finger telling us we just don't care about you. With SPG, you'd actually receive a nice and thoughtful local gift on arrival some times. With Marriott, that nicely wrapped red gift on the bed in the Bonvoy commercial seems to be your virtual welcome gift.

So Arne and friends, guess what, there are tons of options around the world nowadays that don't have the Marriott brand nameplates, that do have a heart and show they care, with warmth and world class hospitality. Bonvoyage.

Just my two cents.

2019, and I have personally experienced Marriott's "we just don't care about you"!

Remember with Bonvoy the guests are the product.
The actual customers are the hotel property owners

If you swap "SPG" for "Marriott" in the OP's post, I would agree. Marriott always treated me as a valued guest; SPG screwed me every time I made the mistake of staying at one of their properties.

I don't know about anti-guest, but dull, boring and far from great customer service is why back in the day, when given a choice: it was Starwood/SPG while I tried to generally stay away from Marriott's brands. It also baffled me how people put up with the lack of information on their website.

Were you SPG PLT?

SPG treat Silver better than Marriott treat Titanium

Can't exactly say every hotel is anti-guest - have had good experience in some hotels. However Corporate is really anti-guest, no matter how human they sound they just follow the computer's decision.

It's like a Swedish bank declined Mr's credit card application (his income qualified), the CSR said to me that Mr. has to call and they will tell him why. So I got Mr. to call and the reason was "the computer said no" (Mr almost wanted to tell her to ask the computer why it said no). He moved on asking if there's any message or anything and she said once again "the computer said no". Marriott hasn't gotten this far yet but I think it's coming.

Nice "click-bait" thread title. It does set me off a bit when a poster makes an overly dramatic statement only to find that the "meat" of the argument are actually rather minor complaints (see airline threads titled "Is this the new norm?" when a single FA was rude). I'm not saying that Marriott is perfect (so no "Marriott defender" responses please) and certainly seem to be controlled/strongly influenced by the properties, but I would say that 90%+ of their guest interactions are warm and positive. So, to answer your question, no, I would not say that Marriott is "virulently anti-guest".

You're right, perhaps 'virulently anti-guest' is indeed a bit strong. What about...

Not exactly customer centric
Pathetically inept
Clueless
Confusing
Overly complex
Inconsistent
Incongruous with a positive experience
Lacking customer focus
Unable to fulfill basic expectations
Total shambles
IT disaster
Communications joke
Asleep at the proverbial switch

Feel free to add your own perspective on this, but Marriott has done little else but screw up. (And no, breakfast is not included).

I would accept those comments/descriptors with the possible exception of "Incongruous with a positive experience" and "Unable to fulfill basic expectations".

I'm a US-based legacy SPG Lifetime Plat, but MR was my backup program. My two cents:

There's a lot of selective memory in these threads. Marriott had lounges in just about all of their FS properties long before SPG properties started to offer them on a very inconsistent basis. Yes, MR lounges have typically been closed on weekends while SPG's have been open, but if lounge access was important you had to research SPG to determine if there would be any access at all. My experience was that lounge offerings were better at MR properties. As for upgrades, I agree that I got more suites in SPG properties, but most of my upgrades have been to "better rooms" and I can't say that I notice much difference. I've had more bad interactions with SPG staff than MR. One major difference that matters to me is that Marriotts have easily accessed electrical outlets while I've spent far too much time hunting for outlets in SPGs and playing contortionist or moving furniture just to plug in my laptop.

Most of the above is about US properties. My experience outside the US is that this is where SPG had a pretty big edge. I often found SPG hotels to be superior and less expensive. The Sheraton brand is no guarantee of anything in the US, but Sheratons outside the US tend to be very good.

My bottom line: it's different now. Get used to it or find something else that works better for you. I admit that I'm getting fed up with the IT issues, but I'm not going anywhere yet.

Absolutely. There are dozens of threads with hundreds of posts in the old SPG forum about how people had to beg and threaten for upgrades, yet the OP claims that upgrades were always cheerfully offered.

The bottom line is that people are blinded by nostalgia and fearful of change. And those people will forever be unhappy no matter what happens.

Both these things can be true: flouting of the SPG rules was uncommon and generally a big issue. I will generally no longer post most Marriott issues, like points for my last 3 stays being wrong, for example.

Well sure, if they're not happy with the mess of the last 6 months then clearly nothing will make people happy!

I would add hostile.

Sounds like Bonvoy has opened the Air Canada playbook circa 1995. Hopefully they get it together and this is just the pain of merging two systems.

Only good thing at the time was paying executive class and flying in a legacy Canadian craft in an actual first class seat. Oh those were the days.

I never had the opportunity. The closest I got to flying Canadian was seeing the galley carts still stamped with the Goose on Air Canada flights.

They figured themselves out, hopefully Bonvoy will as well. I don't think they are "anti-guest", it's just a transition and for the record, I ran into plenty of salty SPG property staff and managers too. The Westin Excelsior Rome comes to mind where I received 50,000 points (3 years ago) as compensation for a room with stains on the sheets and floor AND a manager that told me I could take my American attitude somewhere else (I'm Canadian soooooo that conversation didn't end well as I not so politely told him to eat a moose knuckle).

What I do remember though was how awesome SPG back-office care was. I sent them pictures and a nicely worded email and they took a day to take care of it. Even got a weak apology from the hotel manager.

Anyways, point is be understanding where you can and where you can't, be firm but polite in demanding they step up. Unless they call you an American, in which case, swear at him in French. :D

It works either way, this whole experience is beginning to smack of the United/Continental merger under Smisek.

When Bill Marriott was in charge, the emphasis was on the customer. Things started to go downhill in 2009 when Arne was promoted to President and COO. Bill Marriott's team enforced contracts with franchisees with an iron fist, almost always ruling in favor of the customer.

Things are different under Arne's team.

I have found Marriott to be an absolutely nightmare to deal with compared to my experiences as a Starwood preferred guest. Even at former Starwood properties I stayed at under the previous regime I now find beyond anti-consumer in their practices. I have moved most of my stays to Hilton and Hyatt for differing reasons, and am using up my remaining Starpoints or whatever they are being called this week...

Mine was better than yours.

Things aren't as good as they used to be.

I'm going somewhere else.

I see people occasionally complaining about the picture of the two old guys on the wall ...

But, having once chatted with Bill in a random concierge lounge, seen him chatting with others, making notes, and having someone give me his "office" phone number in case I ever needed assistance, it was clear the emphasis was on the customer and standards.

Too bad Arne came from the finance side ... and is focused on analytics rather than customers/standards.

Lounge closed = breakfast in the restaurant or extra points (750 a day). Don't let the OP fool you.

Some of the rest might be spot on.

-RM

Exactly, and there is a limited list of legacy Marriott properties that give points in lieu of breakfast when the lounge is closed on the weekend. Many of us avoid those properties. If OP identifies the property at issue, it would help.

As for legacy SPG properties, breakfast is always offered but can be radically inconsistent, even at the hotel. At one W, its a select list of 2-3 viable options. At another W, its a $25 credit toward anything on the menu. At another W, its three breads (muffin/crescent/pastry), coffee and juice. At one Westin I've stay at, some days, its anything I want on the menu within reason and other days, its a choice of oatmeal or fruit and yoghurt, with juice and coffee.

Fake news.

As one with over 1,500 nights, I speak from experience.

Chances are you only stayed at SPG as a non-elite, or after the merger, when it was no longer SPG in any way shape or form.

I agree. In the "good old days" the lounges were open on weekends, upgrades usually worked as indicated, there were no mandatory, rip-off, resort or property fees, customer service calls were answered promptly, platinum welcome gifts included a bottle of wine, if desired, etc.

(Recently, It took more than 3 weeks time for Marriott to respond to a website problem I had. And of course the e-mail response was the typical brush off: "I offer our apologies for the delay in response, as we are currently experiencing a higher correspondence volume than usual.")

The culture is much changed with brand inconsistency, hotel inconsistency, and poor customer service too often. After 1500 plus nights with Marriott, I see Marriott as simply another opportunistic business where customer service cutbacks are the perceived way of maximizing profits.

I was only SPG Platinum for about 4 years. Those were some truly fantastic experiences - upgrades that mattered (full suites) and nearly always solid on-property recognition of the status, even in cases when a full suite was not available.

I've been Marriott Platinum for many years and am now Lifetime "Titanium" (lol). For most of that time, Plat was alright: customer service was good, the phone support was quick and competent, and I have enjoyed many Travel Packages to many different parts of the world. I generally accepted the fact that most Marriotts weren't built with many suites, so I never obsessed about upgrades. Platinum meant they never failed to get your bed/smoke right and almost always gave you the best non-suite room they had. In cases where I stayed at a hotel with lots of suites, or lots of junior suites, I got some upgrades. Marriott always felt a little more transactional vs. Starwood's aspirational, but both had their place and Marriott's people and culture always seemed competent and professional to me.

Then came 2018. Now it seems that the entire thing has fallen apart and they can't get the basic things right. Answering the phone, maintaining a working website, operating a loyalty program, and generally acting like they don't care about their customers.

At what point do people get fired? At what point does the Chairman of the Board stand up and say "We made a huge mistake and we're going to try to fix it." This feels like Marriott's New Coke moment. Except for instead of just a bad product, it's a bad product that doesn't work and doesn't appear to have been tested at all.

The sentimental view now from some on the SPG side isn't fully consistent with the pre-merger view by many. See, e.g.,

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/star...tay-again.html
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/star...ted-title.html
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/star...old-times.html
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/star...ined-reps.html
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/star...d-out-spg.html

The reality is that individual legacy Marriott and Starwood properties have hotel GM who largely control our experiences at the property level and make the decisions on whether to do the bare minimum, cheat on award or suite availability, or focus on delivering excellent guest experiences. They are usually operated by a hotel management company that also controls those decisions.

Some of those GM's are excellent! I have handwritten notes and cell phone numbers from many GM's at Marriott properties around the world. I've never received a note at a legacy SPG property.

But hotel experiences can vary. For example, I like the SLS in LA and am a repeat guest. But, last time I was there, they wanted $200 for a suite upgrade to a basic suite that should have been free because they had adopted the legacy SPG "standard" suite approach. In contrast, since then, my last couple of stays, I've stayed at the Marriott BH, where they upgrade me to a larger suite than the one the SLS wanted $200 for. Breakfasts at W's in the US alone are all over the place.

And, of course, the phone lines were overwhelmed last year between the 8/18 merger and the state actor data theft. It was compounded by poor planning and poor communication. Moreover, its my sense that Arne, like other executives in the travel industry, might pay more attention to what he views as blogger schemes (lets change hotels 5 times to get 5 arrival bonuses) that bloggers identifying issues (hotels that don't comply with the spirit of the program on upgrades, award availability, or breakfast) . Plus, this focus on "moments" is stupid (although it comes from legacy SPG folks) and they need to focus on delivering their core business right before moving on to incremental revenue from selling hop on/hop off tickets.

Is this a SPG/Marriott thing? Or is it a difference in approach by an individual GM?

Personally, I think we need to get beyond the merger issue and focus on helping keep us aware of which properties exceed, which properties cheat, and which properties follow the St.R Aspen approach of taking advantage of guests.

Interesting post from FB
 

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...0a48818238.jpg
Source: https://www.facebook.com/groups/financebuzzelite/

Interesting comments. As a ritz platinum I have found the opposite with starwood hotels. And SPG may not know the Marriott rules : show them. They must give you breakfast if the lounge is closed (except at resorts, weekends, etc)

Agreed; picking breakfast as an example in a SPG-vs-Marriott complaint is bizarre to me. SPG was late to offer PLT breakfasts, and has always trailed Hyatt and Hilton in implementation, IMHO.

Which isn't to say Marriott hasn't made it worse -- I don't even *understand* the new Marriott breakfast rules without a cheat sheet -- but it certainly wasn't a highlight of the SPG program for "20 years."

I was SPG plat before with occasional marriott stays - it was always a good experience; even without any MR status phone CSRs were consistently professional and helpful.
Now as Tit/Plat it seems completely random sometimes you get someone competent sometimes completely clueless... i see this merger as good+good = average and inconsistent

I think it highly depends where you are, I had 232 hotel days total in 2018, and you can not compare Europa, Asia or the US. In Europe.

In Europe, I can tell you 95% if I will get an upgrade at SPG / Marriott or not. 19 trips to Frankfurt, the same hotel never got an upgrade there. Complaints got answered poorly and very rude.
Since that we still use SPG / Marriott but switched Hotel brand and now every time an upgrade, very nice people.

So you have to test a lot to get the satisfaction you want to have. So also very important who is managing the hotel locally and how they train their people. So not all are related to the change from SPG to Marriott.

But because all is getting a bit out of line and tested past ten stays, IHG and Hilton are trying to match to check out what they have to offer or willing to offer.
Loyalty is not that what it was 5-10 years ago.

I have started to stay at some boutique hotels. Some of the options out there are surprisingly good. The price was 25% less than the local Marriott and Westin. I didnt know that mid level hotels have screens in every room and showers with steam and 7 shower heads. If these big boys don't get things together real quick, we are gonna see lots of new boutique hotel chains.

It's never too late to take a chance on something new.

No, Marriott's not always been this bad. Phone reps used to be pleasant and knowledgeable. Other than the occasional missing stay, nothing really negative to report. Hotels were pretty consistent and one of the reasons our office traditionally went with Marriott is that the product/experience was generally consistent. SPG's website was always friendlier and reliable (I miss the price grid), but Marriott's old site was decent and usable.

The former Marriott employee's post above just confirms what I've suspected -- Marriott is trying to do too many changes simultaneously and isn't waiting to get things right before proceeding with the next change.