bhrubin

First, I'm afraid you're very mistaken: the Prince Gallery and Moana Surfrider both have a tragically low proportion of suites. The PG has 239 total rooms and only 11 suites (4.6%), and the Westin Moana has 749 total rooms and just 42 suites (5.6%). Most luxury hotels have closer to 15-20% of all rooms as suites.

As I've said repeatedly, few are likely to get SNAs to clear at hotels that don't have that many suites in the first place. It's pretty easy to check that in advance, too.

Second, not to mention that 2 hotels or even 20 or even 200 hotels out of the portfolio of 7000+ hotels is just not remotely significant. Come on, we really need to get real about the actual numbers and not focus on anecdotes.

Third, I stayed last May when the PG accepted SNAs--and they didn't clear. Of course, as an Ambassador elite, I arrived at 7 am and already had been pre-upgraded to a Kioi Suite. For those of us with actual Ambassador elite status, this is called a very good thing that we appreciate.

Finally, this hotel not participating with SNAs is no different than the Ritz-Carlton and Edition brands not participating with SNAs. And yet I've had pre-upgrades before arrival to suites at all of the following hotels: RC Coconut Grove, RC Georgetown, RC Boston, RC Kyoto, RC Chicago, RC Santa Barbara, RC Half Moon Bay. For everyone complaining about how elite status isn't recognized as well with Bonvoy, I can attest to that being crazy and just wrong. My upgrade rate with Bonvoy is actually even better than it was with SPG. And I've been Ambassador status for 6 years now.

Actually, you're wrong again. To get a better chance for SNAs clear, you should stay at hotels that have higher proportions of suites. In almost all cases, those are the luxury brand hotels that clearly are nicer. Most people just don't want to pay for those or use the points for those. it's all about choices.

bhrubin

It was the same with SPG.

bgriff

I'm not talking about *chances* of an SNA clearing. I'm talking about those two properties not putting *any* suites available for SNA use at all (and in the PG's case, declining to participate in the program entirely). If you could request an upgrade at the Moana but your chances of clearing were low because there aren't a lot of them available, that would be one thing. That the list of upgraded room options you can use SNAs for does not extend up as far as their suites is another.

And you are correct that conceptually the PG not taking SNAs is not so different from Ritz and a few other high-end brands being allowed not to participate ... except the PG isn't in one of those brands, and under SPG, none of the brands were allowed to opt out.

bhrubin

So don't stay at the Moana or PG. Problem solved.

While you and others seem to be bothered significantly by these scenarios, it seems painfully obvious to me that any hotels that don't have many suites shouldn't bother participating in SNAs or including their few suites in the SNA pool.

Luxury brand hotels typically have the most suites--often as many as 20% of their total room count or more. The better and more luxurious a hotel is, the higher the proportion of suites that hotel is likely to have. The St Regis New York has 67 suites out of 171 total rooms; that's 39% of all rooms! But the St Regis doesn't make available most of those suites for its SNA or complimentary Plat check in suite upgrades: only the entry level or lower category suites, perhaps accounting for but half of all the suites, are included in the SNA and Plat suite upgrade pools. That means that the top 20% of rooms aren't included in the SNAs or Plat suite upgrades.

That's what you're also seeing in all these other less luxurious hotels that have so few suites. The top 5-10% of their top rooms aren't included, either. Unfortunately, for these more common, less luxury hotels, that means that almost all of the suites aren't included. But it's the exact same scenario proportionally as with the St Regis New York.

Most people from SPG understood that the specialty suites and other top suites were rarely if ever included in the suite upgrade pools at the luxury hotels with the most suites. Too many people from SPG less understood that the comparable scenario for non-luxury hotels meant that the few if any suites at other brands often meant that there were no suites available for SNAs or Plat suite upgrades.

People from Marriott Rewards or now with Marriott Bonvoy are just as unaware as some of their counterparts from SPG that non-luxury hotels have few suites--and that all hotels can hold back their top 5-10% of rooms for their own purposes if they want to do so.

Too many people almost certainly complained so incessantly at properties like the Moana and PG about not getting their SNAs to clear--as is done so often in these threads--that those hotels probably very wisely decided to stop creating the chance for disappointment in the first place. So they can't disappoint everyone when their SNAs don't clear as would be most often the case.

So people complained about SNAs not going through (because they shouldn't go through so often based on the obvious numbers)...so the hotel stopped offering them.

Problem solved. The incessant complaints made the hotels stop offering what people complained about so often. And now people are incessantly complaining about not even getting the chance to complain about that.

Ah, no sympathy from me. Sorry.

MaxFlying

This is the first year (as a Canadian AMEX Bonvoy holder) that I have earned nights merely for having a rather cheap credit card. Together with quite a number of award nights I am aware I haven't actually spent very much to earn 5 SNA. So for me if I get an upgrade using them, great. If not, nothing lost. They feel like quite a generous bonus tbh. Also, over time I have become less obsessed with suites and ensure the room I book is one I am very happy to stay in which may or may not be a suite. I have had lots of great rooms (the tiny room this summer at Les Roches Rouges is an example) that are not suites. Of course, this depends on what else comes with the suite other than more square footage - I will still be hoping for the beachfront villa at the StRPM over new year, but if not, I will be very happy in the garden view room.

Flying for Fun

I was reluctant to select 5 SNA certificates last year based on some of the data points in this thread. I did end up choosing them. I was 100% on my requests clearing and all were full suites. I used them at the Renaissance(1) HKG, The Sheraton Grand(1) SYD, The Marriott at Circular Quay(2) SYD and the W(1) SCL.

The Renaissance HKG was a one night award stay for a garden view room. The SNA upgraded me to a full suite with beautiful unobstructed views across Victoria Harbour with a rate of $1,250 during my stay. In fact, all my SNAs cleared on award redemptions.

They were all great stays but my best upgrades have been on the strength of my Titanium Status weather revenue or awards. 2 nights at the St. Regis in Bora Bora from Reefside Villa to Deluxe overwater Villa with Mt Otemanu view, 3 nights at the Renaissance Santiago to the Top floor largest Governor's Suite, Full suite for 4 nights at the Westin Brisbane, Full Suite for 2 nights at the Sheraton Grand Dubai, Full Suite for 3 nights at the Westin Expo Guadalajara, Full suite at the Four Points in Seattle with a hand written note and a Lindt Chocolate bar in the room and Full suite at a Courtyard in Seattle North/Lynwood with a 10:20 am check-in last Sunday after an Alaska Cruise.

I also have have emails from the Westin Guadalajara & the Manager of the Courtyard Seattle North/Lynwood thanking me for my stay and advising that they are my first contact should I need anything in the future.

I selected 5 SNAs again this year for my Platinum Gift and the Free night for Titanium. At $8,240 Spend on 77 nights with 1/3 of that at the St. Regis Bora Bora, I declare free agency. While I will hit 100 nights with ease this year, I won't spend (refuse to spend) $11,760 for Ambassador Elite. I don't subscribe to revenue based loyalty. It manifests and festers inequity. But that is for discussion in another thread.

If I don't get to use the SNAs, not a big deal. Upgrades without them have been amazing anyway.

Titanium Elite is IMHO, the sweet spot.

James

kaizen7

So far my SNA records are pretty good.

I did apply them long before stays .... usually at the time of booking.
And staying on not so busy seasons did help

And I find that SNA is useful to improve my somehow very low suite upgrade rate
4 out of 15 so far (2 of them due SNA)

jeepie

bhrubin

Keyser

i guess the point many are trying to make here is that they would much rather have the option of requesting a 'real' suite at these properties as compared to not having that option at all....

there are a lot of properties where we had the option to use a sna to upgrade to a suite under spg but now those same properties under marriott don't give that option....

no one here is arguing that the chance of an sna clearing at a property with more suites is much greater than with a property that has a low number of suites....no one here is arguing that there are probably other properties in the same city that would accept the sna as compared to the property that is not giving the option of the sna clearing into a real suite....but please keep in mind that not everyone can afford to stay at these other properties that have more suites or are more expensive....

there are now far more properties to choose from when it comes to applying suite nights but there are also many properties that only give you the option to use them against an enhanced room & not a real suite....in this regard suite nights may work for some people & won't work for others....i'm glad it works for you because you can afford to stay at the better properties that have a great many number & types of suites, but there are many others who either can't afford those properties or their work commitments force them to stay at other 'lesser' properties....my understanding is that these people would much rather have the small chance of their sna clearing into a suite than not having that option at all....

bhrubin

I understand that many people want that. But the reality is that the larger number of Marriott brand properties weren't built with suites in mind because the average profile of the pre merger Marriott customer was distinct from that of the pre merger Starwood customer. Starwood hotels typically had higher proportions of suites with new builds than Marriott hotels for that reason.

So, as with life, it is what it is. Despite what people may want, I'm afraid.

Keyser

yes, but that doesn't change the fact that a number of these properties gave us the option of requesting a real suite under spg but do not under marriott....

i remember a property with only one suite & they always had the option of using an sna against that suite....but they don't anymore....

bhrubin

Things change. There now are a lot more elites trying to claim suites. Marriott properties have to adjust.

But still the number of properties that used to offer SNAs that now have stopped is pretty insignificant to the entire portfolio. And almost all of those that stopped offering SNAs had very few suites to begin with.

People at those properties were complaining before how often their SNAs didn't clear; now those same people are complaining that they can't use their SNAs. The irony suggests karma to me.

ALSO: for Titanium and especially Ambassador elites, properties not participating with SNAs actually allow for greater chances for pre-upgrades to the best Marriott customers. And greater chances for upgrades at check-in for the best Marriott customers. So when people wonder if it's worth it to achieve Titanium or Ambassador status, I remind them of that fact.

Keyser

as usual, we will have to agree to disagree....the number may be insignificant to you but not to others....karma or not, i am in agreement with those who would much rather have a low chance of success than have no chance at all....

rny321

Without addressing the real or perceived limitations of SNAs, I don't see a better choice than them at the 50-night level. The only real choice for me was between the free night and more SNAs at the 75-night level. Since I was finishing off travel packages and my wife and I both have annual credit card "free" nights, I chose the SNAs at both levels. Once the last travel certificate is used, I might make a different decision.

My best upgrade this year came after my suite upgrades didn't clear. Although one is unlikely to know if the upgrades associated with SNAs would have happened anyway, I have found considerable value in them. Still, I can always hope that the numbers and categories of upgrades improves.