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Originally Posted by escape4
(Post 31136891)
I know your personal suite upgrade success has not been great, but if you take into consideration the overall ambassador community and the overall titanium community on FT based what they report in various threads, do you not believe that as a whole and on average, Ambassadors are more successful on suite upgrades, possibly far more successful? I personally think that if I was Titanium my upgrades would not be nearly as good and I get thousands $$ of value out of Amb status from that alone. Unfortunately I cannot prove it. But I am quite sure there are large number of hotels (admittedly, most likely not all of them) who prioritize Ambassadors for room upgrades, regardless how small or how generous those upgrades are.
I also think the situation will get even better starting in 2020 with a reduced number of Ambassador guests. And initiatives like this one below show me that Marriott is making an effort to acknowledge Ambassador Elites. https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...d435c6aaf.jpeg |
Originally Posted by kaizen7
(Post 31136743)
If the issue is just overcrowding at Amb level due to 100 nighters (ex SPG) can get ambassador without 20k spending then the issue will be gone next year.
But I think the issue is way more than that. The quality of ambassador is varies too greatly. At least according to FT posts. And also the execution of the request is varies as well at property level. Some property proactively welcoming ambassador members, some do nothing Now Ambassadors can focus more on resolving IT issues, booking special stays, making special requests for special occasion stays, as the like. But those Ambassador actions are less the norm in the general course of our weekly stays. The execution of elite treatment is ALWAYS contingent on the hotel property itself...for every elite loyalty program. I’m sorry to say that this also depends greatly on the brands at which one stays. If you’re staying at select service brands not known for personalized service, like all midscale and extended stay brands, your expectation for personalized service and for Ambassador or any better elite treatment should be lower than when staying at premium or luxury brands. This has less to do with status and more about better hotels delivering better experiences. That’s always been true for hotels. There are many who get their panties in a twist when they aren’t recognized at check in as Ambassador elites. They are entitled to their feelings, but I value how I’m treated overall rather more than a FDA identifying my elite status. Some people mistakenly believe that a FDA forgetting to not identify them somehow is reflective of the entire experience at a hotel....and I know that’s hardly the case for me. I’ve not been identified as Ambassador plenty of times...at stays in which I’ve also been pre-upgraded to suites and even specialty suites and treated extremely well. That’s not nothing to me. Even when the number evens out in 2020 (all ambassador members are the 100 night + 20k spends), the service will still face those two issues. And for the tier itself, I really think the incremental benefit of amb tier really weak for the added qualifying requirements over titaniums. Most of the benefits are comes with if available tags ... never guaranteed (like Your24) |
I've noticed a couple positives lately that have me feeling a bit better about the program. Im finally getting welcomed as an ambassador level guest. On my last two stays at luxury former-spg properties, I've been acknowledged as an ambassador. Before that it was always platinum or lifetime titanium. Not sure if it was IT related or what, but if it looks like status is finally properly reflected at check in.
I've also had pretty good upgrade luck. This weekend i was upgraded to a $2600/night suite at the st regis bal harbour on a $327/night brg rate. The week before that I had a suite upgrade in new york York at the ritz. So all in all, I feel like there is some real value in the program. Your24 still seems like a mess, and I've had 0 luck on the rare occasions where I've needed it, but hopefully this is something they can address. It seems clear to me that this needs to go back to a more formal automated system. I probably won't focus enough business on marriott to requalify next year, but depending on how the rest of the year goes I may push for it the following year. Right now I still enjoy maintaining hyatt globalist and am not ready to focus 100% on Marriott. |
Originally Posted by UA-NYC
(Post 31136226)
I frankly feel sorry for any of you suckers continuing to spend $20K annually with this sorry excuse of a hotel chain and getting such abysmal levels of (non-) service, save for BHR and a couple other lucky ones. It frankly is embarrassing that Marriott thinks this is acceptable; I actually see it aligning with my theory that they are trying go cancel the program (isn't in the Marriott DNA, which is more about point redemption than high-touch service).
Good article from VFTW that I didn't see posted here previously: https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea...ites/#comments Some of the comments are both amazing and telling Why not just cut ties and move to Hyatt or Hilton? |
Great question! I have 95% cut ties. I'm quite enjoying Hyatt so far - competent, dare I say good customer service, IT that actually works, nice property base...very SPG-like. Globalist benefits (will be there in a couple months) seem amazing.
WRT Marriott, I have a couple of "nice stays" this week (then basically done, save for burning off points), and I am SMH at the state of the Ambassador service these days. Gary summed it up nicely. Objectively, it's just embarrassing how poor/unresponsive the CS is, for supposed top tier, high value guests. I can only imagine the frustration low/no-status folks are feeling with Marriott. |
Originally Posted by UA-NYC
(Post 31137972)
Great question! I have 95% cut ties. I'm quite enjoying Hyatt so far - competent, dare I say good customer service, IT that actually works, nice property base...very SPG-like. Globalist benefits (will be there in a couple months) seem amazing.
But we both know that Hyatt’s footprint is atrocious in way too many areas for most who travel a lot to different destinations. We also know Hyatt’s aspirational footprint is a fraction of Marriott’s, so good IT doesn’t mean much when I can’t find a luxury hotel to enjoy in the places I want to visit. Also. Globalist concierges don’t do much more than even some of the more average Ambassadors....as stipulated quite frequently in the Hyatt Forum. Those Globalist concierges also have troubles...and they’ve got no merger or new program to blame now. The Marriott Ambassador program isn’t perfect by any stretch of the imagination. But its highs vastly outstrip those of Globalist even if its lows don’t quite meet it. WRT Marriott...I am SMH at the state of the Ambassador service these days. Gary summed it up nicely. For all those “supposed” Ambassador guests who somehow never get any response, I always wonder how I manage to get a timely response within a few hours or a day or two max from the general Ambassador email service. The idea that my Ambassador is so amazing doesn’t quite explain how the general Ambassador service always managers to email me back. Makes me wonder aplenty about all those “supposed” but unverified Ambassador guests flinging unsubstantiated stories of not getting any response. As a caveat, I am very active with the Titanium/Ambassador, Plat/Titanium/Former SPG, and Ambassador-only Facebook groups. Yet only the Ambassador-only group verifies the status of its members. It’s hilarious to see so many who never verify for the Ambassador-only group pretending to be something they aren’t necessarily in the other groups. It’s also quite fascinating how the verified Ambassadors almost always (but not always) have such a fantastic experience compared with the non-verified sort. Objectively, it's just embarrassing how poor/unresponsive the CS is, for supposed top tier, high value guests. I can only imagine the frustration low/no-status folks are feeling with Marriott. |
Originally Posted by bhrubin
(Post 31138033)
I am honestly very happy to hear that Hyatt works so well for you. Good luck on getting Globalist status. But we both know that Hyatt’s footprint is atrocious in way too many areas for most who travel a lot to different destinations. We also know Hyatt’s aspirational footprint is a fraction of Marriott’s, so good IT doesn’t mean much when I can’t find a luxury hotel to enjoy in the places I want to visit. Also. Globalist concierges don’t do much more than even some of the more average Ambassadors....as stipulated quite frequently in the Hyatt Forum. Those Globalist concierges also have troubles...and they’ve got no merger or new program to blame now. The Marriott Ambassador program isn’t perfect by any stretch of the imagination. But its highs vastly outstrip those of Globalist even if its lows don’t quite meet it. I‘m most entertained about Gary’s fluff clickbait post—full of rumors, innuendoes, and unsubstantiated suggestions. He summed up very little if you ask me. For all those “supposed” Ambassador guests who somehow never get any response, I always wonder how I manage to get a timely response within a few hours or a day or two max from the general Ambassador email service. The idea that my Ambassador is so amazing doesn’t quite explain how the general Ambassador service always managers to email me back. Makes me wonder aplenty about all those “supposed” but unverified Ambassador guests flinging unsubstantiated stories of not getting any response. As a caveat, I am very active with the Titanium/Ambassador, Plat/Titanium/Former SPG, and Ambassador-only Facebook groups. Yet only the Ambassador-only group verifies the status of its members. It’s hilarious to see so many who never verify for the Ambassador-only group pretending to be something they aren’t necessarily in the other groups. It’s also quite fascinating how the verified Ambassadors almost always (but not always) have such a fantastic experience compared with the non-verified sort. I think the fact is that actual Ambassador guests do have much better responsiveness for the overwhelming most part. I know there are some bad Ambassadors out there, but the general service seems to solve my problems just as well as my amazing Ambassador does. Funny how that happens. HUH? WOH is a new program, different in many ways from HGP. |
Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
(Post 31138039)
HUH? WOH is a new program, different in many ways from HGP. |
Originally Posted by bhrubin
(Post 31137803)
I don’t think there is any issue or overcrowding by Ambassador guests....at least at those brand properties where it would even make a difference. I’m sorry to say that Ambassador overflow at a Courtyard isn’t the same as at a Le Meridien, Autograph Collection, Renaissance, Tribute Portfolio, W, Edition, Luxury Collection, or St Regis or Ritz-Carlton. The brands at which we stay matter because some brands are far more likely to have more suites proportionally to their total room count (which makes a huge difference with suite upgrades). What I mean is on global level, the number of Ambassador member is higher than it was supposedly as there are some Ambassador members that got the tier using old SPG qualifications. Multiple room night counts (up until 18 /8 /18) and no 20k requirements. At property level however .. there might be some increase in ambassador checking in but I believe the level will be small and will not overwhelm the property. The quality of the actual Ambassador matters FAR LESS now than it ever has or ever did with even SPG. Marriott Bonvoy’s elevation of Ambassador as a discrete status level that is how clearly visible and obvious to each property in the portfolio now puts the onus far more on the hotel to recognize Ambassador guests and treat them well—without ever needing any contact from the Ambassador as in the past. Now Ambassadors can focus more on resolving IT issues, booking special stays, making special requests for special occasion stays, as the like. But those Ambassador actions are less the norm in the general course of our weekly stays. The execution of elite treatment is ALWAYS contingent on the hotel property itself...for every elite loyalty program. I’m sorry to say that this also depends greatly on the brands at which one stays. If you’re staying at select service brands not known for personalized service, like all midscale and extended stay brands, your expectation for personalized service and for Ambassador or any better elite treatment should be lower than when staying at premium or luxury brands. This has less to do with status and more about better hotels delivering better experiences. That’s always been true for hotels. Yet some other hotel within the same level failed to do so. We even have thread about a hotel that blatantly mention they wont upgrade elites to suites, failed to provide proper breakfast benefit for elites, etc The change in Marriott system that shows the elite level more prominently is a good progress from Marriott. Marriott needs to monitor whether the property deliver the elite benefit properly or not. This premise is obviously mistaken in my experience. But if it’s true for yours, then I will be delighted to see you drop to Titanium status and no longer be concerned by such Ambassador overreach. And delighted that you won’t be competing with us for suite upgrades, either. Cheers to you! So without double night promotions which luckily I got during my busy period, I will definitely drop to Titanium and no longer compete for suite upgrade with you. But for next year I will retain my ambassador due to that promotion. And yet, so many of us get such amazing benefits, regardless. Guess you won’t miss anything when you drop down to Titanium...as the Ambassadors remaining will have obvious priority over Titaniums for any suite upgrades and obviously better chances for better treatment too Unfortunately not everyone receive the same experience. If Marriott could improve the program and make your experience as the norm, I believe the "noise around the edge" for ambassador program will disappear. Some people never satisfied and will still continue to making those noise, but they will become the minority. |
Originally Posted by bhrubin
(Post 31138033)
But we both know that Hyatt’s footprint is atrocious in way too many areas for most who travel a lot to different destinations. We also know Hyatt’s aspirational footprint is a fraction of Marriott’s, so good IT doesn’t mean much when I can’t find a luxury hotel to enjoy in the places I want to visit. I dont see any hotel chain that can compete with Marriott in these 2 fields directly. Accor might have better footprint in APAC and Europe, but their property mostly medium to budget level. Even with the addition of Banyan Tree (apparently Banyan Tree is not considered luxury in Luxury Travel Forum?), Fairmont, and Raffles Accor have no chance to compete with Marriott on these aspirational properties |
Funny, I didn't really hear Starwood had an "atrocious" footprint pre-merger...I did 900 nights in 9 years with them, and I can count on one hand the amount of times a property wasn't available to me. But yes, if you are a traveling salesperson and need to be in small towns - Marriott is the program for you!
BTW pretty sure Hyatt, with all the recent acquisitions + SLH tie-up, is now bigger than Starwood pre-merger. I have been pleasantly surprised at the breadth and depth of properties. It is pretty clear the above-and-beyond Ambassador experiences of a couple on here are the true outliers...the program is a shell of its former self. BTW it is a far inferior status level to Globalist, it's not even close. Compared to Titanium, you get a Your24 program that basically doesn't work anymore, and possibly a dedicated (along with 299 other customers) agent who may get back to you in 48-72 hours if you are lucky. If Marriott actually wanted to improve Ambassador, Globalist is a good benchmark - no resort fees on any stay, no parking fees on award stays, Guest of Honor benefit, advance confirmable upgrades, full/real breakfast no matter what, add'l benefits/incentives once you hit the top tier...IMO it's shocking how good it is, the more I learn about it. Heck, if Marriott matched ANY single one of them, people in this forum would be hailing Marriott for how elite-friendly they are. |
Originally Posted by kaizen7
(Post 31138119)
What I mean is on global level, the number of Ambassador member is higher than it was supposedly as there are some Ambassador members that got the tier using old SPG qualifications.
Multiple room night counts (up until 18 /8 /18) and no 20k requirements. At property level however .. there might be some increase in ambassador checking in but I believe the level will be small and will not overwhelm the property. The number of Ambassador guests this year is likely not far off from what Marriott expected—perhaps a mere 5-10% higher at most. Marriott KNEW it was grandfathering in the legacy SPG Ambassador qualification of 100 nights at legacy SPG properties; that wasn’t an accident. They were anticipating those. Maybe some more achieved it than they expected, but then Marriott ALSO invited plenty of old Marriott Rewards concierge Plat Premier guests, too. Marriott wouldn’t have bothered inviting those if it had so screwed the pooch on its other expected numbers. So Marriott does NOT have more Ambassador guests than it expected. Marriott may not handled handled the IT and email server and address changes well, and Marriott may have been overwhelmed with customer service phone calls as a result. But that doesn’t mean what you want to conclude. Your logic is flawed. And this is the issue. Your favourite hotel, St Regis SF might be able to execute the ambassador benefit properly and with high level of consistency. Yet some other hotel within the same level failed to do so. We even have thread about a hotel that blatantly mention they wont upgrade elites to suites, failed to provide proper breakfast benefit for elites, etc You only want to focus on my StR San Francisco stays. You seem to ignore that before even Bonvoy launched in February I’d already been upgraded to specialty suites at the RC Kyoto and at the RC Coconut Grove. Since then, I’ve been upgraded to suites at the Le Meridien Arlington (100%), Le Meridien Cambridge. (100%), the Sheraton Philly Univ City (100%), Le Meridien Philly, Four Points Midtown NYC (100%). Four Points Midtown Chelsea (100%), Sheraton Hartford South (100%), Courtyard New Haven (100%). Renaissance Providence (100%), Sheraton Boston (100%), SLS Beverly Hills (100%), RC Chicago, RC Boston, St Regis Bahia Beach, etc. Many of those were specialty suites not usually part of the suite upgrade pool. I pick good hotels with a record of treating elites well...and that’s what happens. When I’ve stayed unfortunately at hotels with a record of not treating elites so well since Bonvoy launched—Sheraton Times Square and Courtyard Chelsea NYC—I didn’t get an upgrade at all. Go figure. You say hotels at the same level don’t treat Ambassador guests as well...and I dispute that. I suspect every StR but maybe not Aspen!) does about as well...but sometime has less occupancy/availability of suites for upgrade. It’s so convenient to ignore availability. Heck, even I wasn’t upgraded to a suite last year at the StR Osaka...because it was sold out and was hosting 3 weddings! Yet the StR Osaka was able to upgrade me to the best room category at least. The change in Marriott system that shows the elite level more prominently is a good progress from Marriott. Marriott needs to monitor whether the property deliver the elite benefit properly or not. Marriott is better than the competition, even with its warts. My single night count is around 70-80 nights, even though spending will be way above 20k due to half of it will be multi room bookings. So without double night promotions which luckily I got during my busy period, I will definitely drop to Titanium and no longer compete for suite upgrade with you. But for next year I will retain my ambassador due to that promotion. Your experience is what Marriott advertise and most likely planned for the program. Unfortunately not everyone receive the same experience. If Marriott could improve the program and make your experience as the norm, I believe the "noise around the edge" for ambassador program will disappear. Some people never satisfied and will still continue to making those noise, but they will become the minority. |
Originally Posted by bhrubin
(Post 31138312)
I must beg to differ. The number of Ambassador guests this year is likely not far off from what Marriott expected—perhaps a mere 5-10% higher at most. Marriott KNEW it was grandfathering in the legacy SPG Ambassador qualification of 100 nights at legacy SPG properties; that wasn’t an accident. They were anticipating those. Maybe some more achieved it than they expected, but then Marriott ALSO invited plenty of old Marriott Rewards concierge Plat Premier guests, too. Marriott wouldn’t have bothered inviting those if it had so screwed the pooch on its other expected numbers. So Marriott does NOT have more Ambassador guests than it expected. Marriott may not handled handled the IT and email server and address changes well, and Marriott may have been overwhelmed with customer service phone calls as a result. But that doesn’t mean what you want to conclude. Your logic is flawed. It is amazing how I choose good hotels, and they always seem to not only upgrade me almost always (and usually to a suite) but also treat me very well while I’m there. While others choose bad hotels or less services oriented hotels with few suites and no record of good service...and then are surprised when they don’t get a suite upgrade or good service. You only want to focus on my StR San Francisco stays. You seem to ignore that before even Bonvoy launched in February I’d already been upgraded to specialty suites at the RC Kyoto and at the RC Coconut Grove. Since then, I’ve been upgraded to suites at the Le Meridien Arlington (100%), Le Meridien Cambridge. (100%), the Sheraton Philly Univ City (100%), Le Meridien Philly, Four Points Midtown NYC (100%). Four Points Midtown Chelsea (100%), Sheraton Hartford South (100%), Courtyard New Haven (100%). Renaissance Providence (100%), Sheraton Boston (100%), SLS Beverly Hills (100%), RC Chicago, RC Boston, St Regis Bahia Beach, etc. Many of those were specialty suites not usually part of the suite upgrade pool. I pick good hotels with a record of treating elites well...and that’s what happens. When I’ve stayed unfortunately at hotels with a record of not treating elites so well since Bonvoy launched—Sheraton Times Square and Courtyard Chelsea NYC—I didn’t get an upgrade at all. Go figure. You say hotels at the same level don’t treat Ambassador guests as well...and I dispute that. I suspect every StR but maybe not Aspen!) does about as well...but sometime has less occupancy/availability of suites for upgrade. It’s so convenient to ignore availability. Heck, even I wasn’t upgraded to a suite last year at the StR Osaka...because it was sold out and was hosting 3 weddings! Yet the StR Osaka was able to upgrade me to the best room category at least. Yep. And it’s just 3 months old. Yep. Just like SPG did and failed system-wide and just as Hyatt did and failed system-wide. There always will be individual properties that play havoc with the rules and game the system. It’s no different now with Marriott than it was with SPG nor than it is even now with Hyatt! Heck, Hyatt is legendary for properties that play games with inventory and benefits (Hyatt Regency SF, etc) and those that don’t give Suite upgrades at all even to Globalists or with their guaranteed suite upgrades at time of booking (Park Hyatt Sydney, Park Hyatt Tokyo, Andaz Maui, etc...see a pattern here?) Marriott is better than the competition, even with its warts. Great. What’s the problem? My experience is one at almost entirely premium level and luxury properties. For other Ambassador guests who stay at those, mostly similar experiences have been reported. For those who stay at poorer premium brand and select service brand properties, Ambassador can’t upgrade you to a suite when there are only 2 of them or turn a Courtyard into a luxury service property. HUH? I have a PH Tokyo stay coming up later this summer, IIRC for a full week, and I was able to get the upgrade confirmed easily using a Glob TSU. |
Originally Posted by escape4
(Post 31136891)
I know your personal suite upgrade success has not been great, but if you take into consideration the overall ambassador community and the overall titanium community on FT based what they report in various threads, do you not believe that as a whole and on average, Ambassadors are more successful on suite upgrades, possibly far more successful? I personally think that if I was Titanium my upgrades would not be nearly as good and I get thousands $$ of value out of Amb status from that alone. Unfortunately I cannot prove it. But I am quite sure there are large number of hotels (admittedly, most likely not all of them) who prioritize Ambassadors for room upgrades, regardless how small or how generous those upgrades are.
I have have received thousands $$ of value in upgrades alone too. One might also argue, based on spend, that my value is greater than yours proportionately. Even if I had an Ambassador, I am not sure I would utilize the service. James |
Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
(Post 31138338)
HUH? I have a PH Tokyo stay coming up later this summer, IIRC for a full week, and I was able to get the upgrade confirmed easily using a Glob TSU. No Suite Free Night Award is valid at Park Hyatt Maldives Hadahaa, Park Hyatt Sydney, Andaz Tokyo Toranomon Hills, Hyatt Regency Kyoto, Hyatt Regency Wichita, Hyatt Paris Madeleine, Hyatt Herald Square New York, Hyatt Key West Resort and Spa, Hyatt City of Dreams Manila, Hyatt Centric South Beach Miami, Spirit Ridge at NK’MIP Resort, Hyatt Rosemont, Hyatt Regency Suites Atlanta Northwest, Hyatt Regency Lisle near Naperville, Hyatt Regency John Wayne Airport Newport Beach, Thompson Seattle, or Hyatt Place hotels. |
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