Fastest and simplest way to get to SUB spending level
Mar 11, 2024, 8:58 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: EWR/PHL/JFK
Programs: A3*G, AS MVPG, UA, AA
Posts: 610
Fastest and simplest way to get to SUB spending level
I realize this is not strictly MS but it’s adjacent so hoping someone can confirm for me.
In the past, my SUB strategy was doing short-term low-risk Kiva loans filtered through KivaLens. My losses were minimal, in the sub 0.5% range including both defaults and currency losses. Loans were sometimes delayed for a few months but it wasn’t the end of the world.
Covid completely destroyed this. I am still waiting on $10 of repayments for a loan that was issued in March 2020. My overall losses have climbed up to 1.74% as a result (of which 1.03% is from currency loss).
payUSAtax through the IRS has a guaranteed rate of 1.82% with a guaranteed repayment of less than 12 months. Is that the simplest path now? I need 5K in spend.
In the past, my SUB strategy was doing short-term low-risk Kiva loans filtered through KivaLens. My losses were minimal, in the sub 0.5% range including both defaults and currency losses. Loans were sometimes delayed for a few months but it wasn’t the end of the world.
Covid completely destroyed this. I am still waiting on $10 of repayments for a loan that was issued in March 2020. My overall losses have climbed up to 1.74% as a result (of which 1.03% is from currency loss).
payUSAtax through the IRS has a guaranteed rate of 1.82% with a guaranteed repayment of less than 12 months. Is that the simplest path now? I need 5K in spend.
Mar 11, 2024, 9:38 am
#2
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,303
Assuming you adjust your w4 or whatever you use for withholding, this is necessary spend (not even MS adjacent) and something most people will do as you get two payments per processer per quarter. I don't think I've seen a SUB fewer than 90 days and your SUB spend is $5k which necessitates the question, why would you not be able to just use the card organically on every day purchases for a few months? Loaning out money even on a short term basis with KIVA to grab a SUB on a credit card is picking up nickels in front of a steamroller IMO.
Mar 11, 2024, 9:52 am
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: EWR/PHL/JFK
Programs: A3*G, AS MVPG, UA, AA
Posts: 610
Poor planning. I need the SUB ASAP to use it for a trip, so the spend needs to happen this week.
And as a more general rule (why use Kiva), to know that I’ve hit the required spend and not have to keep track of expenses etc. My churning is not insane, it’s just 24k worth of loans from 2016 to 2020. My expenses last year were just 37k of which about 18k was loans that can’t be repaid with cards.
And as a more general rule (why use Kiva), to know that I’ve hit the required spend and not have to keep track of expenses etc. My churning is not insane, it’s just 24k worth of loans from 2016 to 2020. My expenses last year were just 37k of which about 18k was loans that can’t be repaid with cards.
Last edited by lensovet; Mar 11, 2024 at 9:57 am
Mar 12, 2024, 8:35 am
#4
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: Continental Onepass, Hilton, Marriott, USAir and now UA
Posts: 6,447
Since the sum is only $5K, I would suggest finding some merchant that sells a luxury item but allows returns within a reasonable period of time....say 90 days.
Purchase the item with your CC, use the points for the SUB, then return the unused item after your trip for a refund.
Be prepared to have the SUB and the points pulled back from your card, which you could avoid, I guess, by closing the account. Not a great idea if you want to keep a relationship with the issuer of that card.
Otherwise, accept the clawback of points created by the refund and just make up the deficit over time by using the card organically.
Mar 19, 2024, 10:28 pm
#5
Join Date: Oct 2023
Posts: 277
I realize this is not strictly MS but it’s adjacent so hoping someone can confirm for me.
In the past, my SUB strategy was doing short-term low-risk Kiva loans filtered through KivaLens. My losses were minimal, in the sub 0.5% range including both defaults and currency losses. Loans were sometimes delayed for a few months but it wasn’t the end of the world.
Covid completely destroyed this. I am still waiting on $10 of repayments for a loan that was issued in March 2020. My overall losses have climbed up to 1.74% as a result (of which 1.03% is from currency loss).
payUSAtax through the IRS has a guaranteed rate of 1.82% with a guaranteed repayment of less than 12 months. Is that the simplest path now? I need 5K in spend.
In the past, my SUB strategy was doing short-term low-risk Kiva loans filtered through KivaLens. My losses were minimal, in the sub 0.5% range including both defaults and currency losses. Loans were sometimes delayed for a few months but it wasn’t the end of the world.
Covid completely destroyed this. I am still waiting on $10 of repayments for a loan that was issued in March 2020. My overall losses have climbed up to 1.74% as a result (of which 1.03% is from currency loss).
payUSAtax through the IRS has a guaranteed rate of 1.82% with a guaranteed repayment of less than 12 months. Is that the simplest path now? I need 5K in spend.
Down side, you need to finish your MS and pay the card back in somewhere between 30 and 55 days (depends on your statement closing date) or else pay CC interest rates. I have a personal line of credit at a much lower rate than CC to use if I miss the deadline, but I've never missed the deadline so :shrug:
Mar 20, 2024, 12:26 am
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: EWR/PHL/JFK
Programs: A3*G, AS MVPG, UA, AA
Posts: 610
I'm not against MS but as someone who works in retail I see firsthand the hassle that trying to use these cards is. It also largely destroys any kind of budget accounting you might be doing.
Ultimately for this exercise I ended up doing Kiva because it was the only option that would accept Apple Pay, which allowed me to hit the required spend the day after the card was approved, as opposed to waiting for the physical card to arrive in the mail. The real trap with Kiva these days is that they automatically add a donation of $15 per funded loan, something that I missed during the checkout process on my phone and which resulted in an $845 donation that I absolutely did not intend to make. Thankfully I was able to get Kiva to revert that as credit that I will loan out, but it doesn't affect the CC side of things.
Ultimately for this exercise I ended up doing Kiva because it was the only option that would accept Apple Pay, which allowed me to hit the required spend the day after the card was approved, as opposed to waiting for the physical card to arrive in the mail. The real trap with Kiva these days is that they automatically add a donation of $15 per funded loan, something that I missed during the checkout process on my phone and which resulted in an $845 donation that I absolutely did not intend to make. Thankfully I was able to get Kiva to revert that as credit that I will loan out, but it doesn't affect the CC side of things.
Mar 26, 2024, 3:02 pm
#7
Join Date: Oct 2023
Posts: 277
Lately (since Christmas) you have to avoid trying to use the full $500 in one transaction, 'cause that fraud locks the card and then you have to call for a replacement, but I've had a 100% success rate draining $499 from my InComms in a single transaction. YMMV
.
Mar 27, 2024, 5:41 pm
#8
Join Date: May 2005
Programs: UA MM, AS MVP Gold, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 2,110
From some DPs in the past.
Since the sum is only $5K, I would suggest finding some merchant that sells a luxury item but allows returns within a reasonable period of time....say 90 days.
Purchase the item with your CC, use the points for the SUB, then return the unused item after your trip for a refund.
Be prepared to have the SUB and the points pulled back from your card, which you could avoid, I guess, by closing the account. Not a great idea if you want to keep a relationship with the issuer of that card.
Otherwise, accept the clawback of points created by the refund and just make up the deficit over time by using the card organically.
Since the sum is only $5K, I would suggest finding some merchant that sells a luxury item but allows returns within a reasonable period of time....say 90 days.
Purchase the item with your CC, use the points for the SUB, then return the unused item after your trip for a refund.
Be prepared to have the SUB and the points pulled back from your card, which you could avoid, I guess, by closing the account. Not a great idea if you want to keep a relationship with the issuer of that card.
Otherwise, accept the clawback of points created by the refund and just make up the deficit over time by using the card organically.
Apr 2, 2024, 5:17 am
#11
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Saipan, MP 96950 USA (Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands = the CNMI)
Programs: UA Silver, Hilton Silver. Life: UA .57 MM, United & Admirals Clubs (spousal), Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,067
Depends on the cards. Anything serviced by BHN is a pita. Cards serviced by InComm have been easy peasy for me and I've burned through tens of thousands so far. The three online sources I mentioned above are InComm, so should be ok. CVS, SW, Kroger, Walgreens and WM also sell InComm. [Emphasis added.]
