Jan 2, 2017, 7:37 pm
Last edit by: Marathon Man
NEW TO MS: Do some serious reading for a month of all the posts and wiki to get an understanding of MS before asking common questions.
Note: the 2016 version of this thread is here: www.flyertalk.com/forum/manufactured-spending/1737819-new-manufactured-spending-start-here-2016-a-39.html#post27694986, the 2015 version of the thread is here: www.flyertalk.com/forum/manufactured-spending/1642283-new-manufactured-spending-start-here-2015-a.html
Welcome to Manufactured Spending. Marathon Man did not write this message, but he has edited it and anyone can. If you are new here, please spend some time reading before posting. Most likely your questions have already been answered multiple times. Consider deals that you share. These threads are searchable by Google. A volatile deal may be worth holding close to the vest.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. High "View Count" and "Replies" are good indicators of active "master threads" on a specific topic.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
3) A glossary wiki for MS located in the thread Glossary, Manufactured Spending Forum
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. Some might argue that MS is like card counting in a casino. It is not illegal but casinos don’t like it. Orhers have said it’s like having a fake ID in college to use just to get into bars where all the fun is. Just because it worked here yesterday doesn’t mean it will get you in today. MS is like being a wood worker constantly using a table saw. Always watch what you are doing—always! Or you will lose something. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is legal.
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
6) MSing can be used for a variety of purposes, ranging from smallish amounts to meet minimum spend requirements to get a credit card signup bonus, to accumulating huge numbers of points for travel/cashback/etc. Remember too that you will often have expenses such as purchase fees, liquidation fees, and gas.
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
- A helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS
New MSers can also read all these threads:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manufactured-spending-719/
Note: the 2016 version of this thread is here: www.flyertalk.com/forum/manufactured-spending/1737819-new-manufactured-spending-start-here-2016-a-39.html#post27694986, the 2015 version of the thread is here: www.flyertalk.com/forum/manufactured-spending/1642283-new-manufactured-spending-start-here-2015-a.html
Welcome to Manufactured Spending. Marathon Man did not write this message, but he has edited it and anyone can. If you are new here, please spend some time reading before posting. Most likely your questions have already been answered multiple times. Consider deals that you share. These threads are searchable by Google. A volatile deal may be worth holding close to the vest.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. High "View Count" and "Replies" are good indicators of active "master threads" on a specific topic.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
3) A glossary wiki for MS located in the thread Glossary, Manufactured Spending Forum
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. Some might argue that MS is like card counting in a casino. It is not illegal but casinos don’t like it. Orhers have said it’s like having a fake ID in college to use just to get into bars where all the fun is. Just because it worked here yesterday doesn’t mean it will get you in today. MS is like being a wood worker constantly using a table saw. Always watch what you are doing—always! Or you will lose something. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is legal.
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
6) MSing can be used for a variety of purposes, ranging from smallish amounts to meet minimum spend requirements to get a credit card signup bonus, to accumulating huge numbers of points for travel/cashback/etc. Remember too that you will often have expenses such as purchase fees, liquidation fees, and gas.
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
- A helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS
New MSers can also read all these threads:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manufactured-spending-719/
New to Manufactured Spending? Start here(2017-2018)
Sep 4, 2018, 1:29 pm
#541
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 10
Easy access to Simon is very useful. It isn't good for Amex min spends, but several people have had good success with earning points after meeting them, especially in the past on SPG cards. If you could find a place that codes as a bonus with savor you'd be popular amongst those who can get CO cards. Unfortunately, chase shuts down any worthwhile amount of MS pretty quickly, if you value your relationship with them I wouldn't recommend it. Good luck in your search!
Sep 6, 2018, 3:59 pm
#542
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: PDX
Programs: Don't think it matters...
Posts: 5,240
It should only be the 1st time you use the card.. and I would buy something more than just a GC to keep the transaction out of sight.. maybe buy it from a grocery store with some other stuff too to be safe.
Sep 7, 2018, 7:02 pm
#543
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 10
Is it true that you cannot MS with AMEX cards? If not, where can you buy GCs from that will work for AMEX and where won't they work? Will simon malls, Amazon, GC.com, GCM.com work?
Sep 8, 2018, 10:48 am
#544
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 89
Has anyone had experience MSing foreign cards in the US? I am a dual citizen of US and Russia and I'm thinking of getting some aeroflot cards (aeroflot signature from sberbank gives 2 miles per $) and MSing them in the US to get aeroflot miles for flying to Russia. Their business class redemption is pretty good, about 110k miles round trip b-class from US - Russia, which costs about $4000 if you pay in actual cash. They also offer DEBIT cards that earn 2 miles per $, but I feel like those are more risky since I'd be using my own money... However, I'm wondering, perhaps I can get their credit card and then just buy money orders with it and have it not count as "cash"? Has anyone gotten a foreign card to MS in the US and bought money orders that don't count as cash advance?
Sep 11, 2018, 12:26 am
#545
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Bellingham, Wa
Programs: AA, Alaska, Hilton, Marriott
Posts: 73
Looking to knock out some CC spending and see that you can fund 3 BMO accounts for $1k each. Is there a method to this regarding keeping the account fee free? I think I saw that you need $10k in the money market to keep it free. Is there a way around this? Is there an early termination fee or do people open and then close quickly.
Thanks!
Thanks!
Sep 13, 2018, 11:00 am
#546
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 29
Do Simon VGCs still work for WM MOs? What's the limit or is it YMMV?
Oct 3, 2018, 11:15 am
#549
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 89
Has anyone MSed successfully with citi double cash without getting shut down? If so, what were your volumes?
Nov 30, 2018, 6:54 am
#550
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 2
MS and fees
hi everyone,
I am new to the manufactured spending game and trying to come up with MS ideas applicable in my country.
just wondering if it’s good to pay 2-3% in fees to get the MS done? My idea is to churn transactions while incurring 3% fees each time. But I feel that I am not maximising MS enough since I am still paying a fair bit of cash.
appreciate any inputs
thanks
I am new to the manufactured spending game and trying to come up with MS ideas applicable in my country.
just wondering if it’s good to pay 2-3% in fees to get the MS done? My idea is to churn transactions while incurring 3% fees each time. But I feel that I am not maximising MS enough since I am still paying a fair bit of cash.
appreciate any inputs
thanks
Nov 30, 2018, 7:12 am
#551
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: Continental Onepass, Hilton, Marriott, USAir and now UA
Posts: 6,440
hi everyone,
I am new to the manufactured spending game and trying to come up with MS ideas applicable in my country.
just wondering if it’s good to pay 2-3% in fees to get the MS done? My idea is to churn transactions while incurring 3% fees each time. But I feel that I am not maximising MS enough since I am still paying a fair bit of cash.
appreciate any inputs
thanks
I am new to the manufactured spending game and trying to come up with MS ideas applicable in my country.
just wondering if it’s good to pay 2-3% in fees to get the MS done? My idea is to churn transactions while incurring 3% fees each time. But I feel that I am not maximising MS enough since I am still paying a fair bit of cash.
appreciate any inputs
thanks
For the past several months, I have been able to obtain $200 MOs for essential no fee so my cost per $1000 MO has dropped to $0.11 or 0.011% (assuming the $0.88 per MO.)
I would find 3% fees to be high unless there is no other solution. At that point, you have to determine if the value of the points/cash/redeemable or earned awards justifies the fee cost as well as the time and aggravation of the process. That is something only you can determine.
Last edited by radonc1; Nov 30, 2018 at 7:31 am Reason: math error
Nov 30, 2018, 2:25 pm
#552
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: PDX
Programs: Don't think it matters...
Posts: 5,240
I would find 3% fees to be high unless there is no other solution. At that point, you have to determine if the value of the points/cash/redeemable or earned awards justifies the fee cost as well as the time and aggravation of the process. That is something only you can determine.
Nov 30, 2018, 4:23 pm
#553
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 2
I work on a <1% fee basis for my MS. I use $500 GCs that cost $3.95 each. 1 $1000 MO costs $0.88 for a total of $8.78 per $1000 MO or 0.878 %.
For the past several months, I have been able to obtain $200 MOs for essential no fee so my cost per $1000 MO has dropped to $0.11 or 0.011% (assuming the $0.88 per MO.)
I would find 3% fees to be high unless there is no other solution. At that point, you have to determine if the value of the points/cash/redeemable or earned awards justifies the fee cost as well as the time and aggravation of the process. That is something only you can determine.
For the past several months, I have been able to obtain $200 MOs for essential no fee so my cost per $1000 MO has dropped to $0.11 or 0.011% (assuming the $0.88 per MO.)
I would find 3% fees to be high unless there is no other solution. At that point, you have to determine if the value of the points/cash/redeemable or earned awards justifies the fee cost as well as the time and aggravation of the process. That is something only you can determine.
Dec 1, 2018, 10:50 am
#554
Join Date: May 2008
Location: PHL (kinda, no airport is really close)
Programs: AA Exp, but not sure for how long. Enterprise Platinum woo-hoo!
Posts: 4,550
MS is very much YMMV ("Your Mileage May Vary.") You need a place to buy the instruments with low fees, and a place that will accept them for either money orders or bill payments back to your card. I don't recall anyone on this forum having found a totally different way.
Dec 1, 2018, 7:14 pm
#555
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 106
had my first successful MS runs this week to max out the CF 5% quarterly category. 3x VVGC @ WG ($500, $500 and $490) over a couple of days
smooth sailing with both the grocery store MO route and serve green at FD.
Some things I learned:
smooth sailing with both the grocery store MO route and serve green at FD.
Some things I learned:
- Be Courteous: i know its been said before, but it really does matter. The cashier at WG, who I had bought a GC from on the first run, thanked me for not making a fuss when he kept asking to see IDs and such.
- DP: $500 daily load limit at WG, across all products. Eg. I got a green serve and a VVGC, minimum of $10 (cash only) on the serve leaves you with only $490 for the VVGC
- "invalid merchant" at FD means you've surpassed some sort of limit, whether daily or monthly. Remember, if your serve card is temp, that limit is $500 per day. I initially tried $500, immediately remembered the daily limit. When that didn't work, I told the cashier I was going to call Serve. Went to my car, checked flyertalk to confirm my suspicion. Went back in and loaded $490 with no issues. Additionally, unsure if I got lucky and was the first load of the day or if the store did not have a daily limit.
- Factor in your costs: FD is 45min from me, that's not an insignificant amount of gas. The goal is to make some money, not lose it. Going forward, I'm not sure how much sense this makes for me specifically.
- Start slow; just do one card first, one swipe loads, etc. Don't get stuck with GC you can't liquidate.
- Learn your LOCAL waters; YMMV. For example, two safeways near me are cash only for MO. another grocery chain is not. If none of them had accepted debit, MS makes a lot less sense in my geographical area.
Good luck!