Jan 7, 2016, 8:18 am
Last edit by: RedSun
This is the 2016 and onwards Bluebird thread.
The original discussion. The previous 2013- 2014 megathread. The previous 2015 megathread.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Read the wiki before posting a question.
The most recent huge wave of shutdowns occurred in May 2019.
Most accounts used for MS were shut down on Jan 8, 2016. Another wave of shutdowns occurred on March 4, 2016. Using Bluebird for MS is very likely to lead to account closure. There is no clear pattern as to how to avoid the account shut-downs. Some of the dormant accounts were not shut down.
Check your BB load limits BEFORE asking in this thread about "tender not allowed" or any other errors.
Bluebird website. There's no need to buy a Bluebird kit in-store; sign-up free on the website.
For information on switching from BB to Serve, see the Serve thread wiki.
Bluebird Load Limits:
The cash load limit for a temp card is $1,500 total.
*For online debit load, only use of bank-issued cards is allowed. The use of pre-paid debit cards (Netspend, Paypower, Univision, Paypal, etc.) and VGC/MGC/AGCs is not allowed. Your account will be flagged upon first/second attempt. If blocked, call Account Protection Services at 1-800-660-2454 to clear it (9am-8pm EST, Mon-Fri).
The day currently resets around midnight Eastern/11pm Central/10pm Mountain/9pm Pacific.
For online bill pay
Loading with debit card at Walmart
Self checkout does not work for loading.
Many Walmart stores are enforcing a rule against the use of gift cards when loading, even though the register and the MCE do not enforce. Do not make your prepaid debit cards visible. Show them a bank debit card if asked. Otherwise, you may be asked by management to never visit the MC again to load with gift cards.
Loads at register over $500 will sometimes trigger ID requirement. There is a limit of four swipes per transaction; this means your card plus three payments.
If your card doesn't say "debit" on the front, it isn't a debit card.
Please see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manuf...bit-cards.html for additional information on using prepaid debit cards.
Training a WM cashier:
Error Messages:
DEBIT NOT AVAILABLE
Received when I used a card I thought I had activated but hadn't.
DEBIT NOT APPROVED
Received when the card's monthly load limit had been reached.
TENDER NOT ALLOWED
Card was incorrectly read, or wrong PIN entered .
HOST TIMEOUT
Connection problems. The GC may be drained but the transaction should reverse itself, and funds will become available again. Try again later.
The original discussion. The previous 2013- 2014 megathread. The previous 2015 megathread.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Read the wiki before posting a question.
The most recent huge wave of shutdowns occurred in May 2019.
Most accounts used for MS were shut down on Jan 8, 2016. Another wave of shutdowns occurred on March 4, 2016. Using Bluebird for MS is very likely to lead to account closure. There is no clear pattern as to how to avoid the account shut-downs. Some of the dormant accounts were not shut down.
Check your BB load limits BEFORE asking in this thread about "tender not allowed" or any other errors.
Bluebird website. There's no need to buy a Bluebird kit in-store; sign-up free on the website.
For information on switching from BB to Serve, see the Serve thread wiki.
Bluebird Load Limits:
- Cash loading: $2,500 ($1,999.99 at Walmart) per card per day; $9,000 per day all BB cards combined; $5,000 total per calendar month each card; $10,000 calendar month and $100,000 per year all BB cards combined for each SSN.
- Direct Deposit: $100,000 per year
- Online Debit Card Load* - $200/day and $1,000/month
- Checking/Savings Account - $2,000/month
- Mobile Check Capture by Ingo® Money - $5,000/day and $10,000/month
- ATM Withdrawals - $750/day and $2,000/month
The cash load limit for a temp card is $1,500 total.
*For online debit load, only use of bank-issued cards is allowed. The use of pre-paid debit cards (Netspend, Paypower, Univision, Paypal, etc.) and VGC/MGC/AGCs is not allowed. Your account will be flagged upon first/second attempt. If blocked, call Account Protection Services at 1-800-660-2454 to clear it (9am-8pm EST, Mon-Fri).
The day currently resets around midnight Eastern/11pm Central/10pm Mountain/9pm Pacific.
For online bill pay
- You can pay the credit card that you used to buy reloads
- Error 1302 means that you have 1 pending payment the same amount as the one you just submitted. For example, 1000 bill pay to sapphire preferred from Friday and then on Saturday you submit another bill pay for 1000 to sapphire preferred, you will get this error.
- Tip: if using online bill pay to the same place multiple times, vary your amounts by $0.01 to make it easier to track since your confirmation number does not match the tracking number on your credit card statement
Loading with debit card at Walmart
Self checkout does not work for loading.
Many Walmart stores are enforcing a rule against the use of gift cards when loading, even though the register and the MCE do not enforce. Do not make your prepaid debit cards visible. Show them a bank debit card if asked. Otherwise, you may be asked by management to never visit the MC again to load with gift cards.
Loads at register over $500 will sometimes trigger ID requirement. There is a limit of four swipes per transaction; this means your card plus three payments.
If your card doesn't say "debit" on the front, it isn't a debit card.
Please see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manuf...bit-cards.html for additional information on using prepaid debit cards.
Training a WM cashier:
- If the WM cashier doesn't know how to load the card, advise them to enter "70" then press "action code".
- If you are using a temp card that doesn't have your name on it, you can swipe the card from your side of the terminal. The WM rep never has to touch any of your cards. The screen will say "enter account." That is your prompt to slide the card.
- The terminal will ask the WM employee if you are loading in multiples of $2000. Advise them to enter "no."
- Avoid saying gift card. Always refer to your card as a debit card.
Error Messages:
DEBIT NOT AVAILABLE
Received when I used a card I thought I had activated but hadn't.
DEBIT NOT APPROVED
Received when the card's monthly load limit had been reached.
TENDER NOT ALLOWED
Card was incorrectly read, or wrong PIN entered .
HOST TIMEOUT
Connection problems. The GC may be drained but the transaction should reverse itself, and funds will become available again. Try again later.
Bluebird master thread (2016 onwards)
Jan 11, 2016, 4:33 pm
#136
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,784
Facts about SARs
I am not an attorney, and I don't represent you, nor is this intended to be legal or financial advice. 
A conviction for "structuring" needs to prove, in a court of law, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the person "intended" to hide their activity by making multiple <$10K deposits that otherwise would have been > $10K deposits.
You have to prove "intent" to avoid the $10K reporting, which is very difficult to do.
In addition, a SARS report is required to NEVER be made known to the person it is being filled out on. The whole idea is to keep you from knowing your activities are under investigation, lest you change those activities to avoid prosecution. They are breaking the law if they let you know they are filing a SARs on you.
So if any store "breaks out the forms" in front of you, it is for their own record keeping, and it's NOT a SARS report.
Now for the genuine paranoia:
AMEX just added anti "Manufactured Spend" verbiage to BB. They added those very words to the BB TCs, and then used the updated T/C as the reason for terminating BB accounts.
What reason do we have to believe that they will not now do a similar check on AMEX cc and charge card accounts, and close those down if they find similar activity? I don't know about you, but I do have $2,500 bills for Pharmaceutical products at CVS. And DW and I are big eaters, so of course we do multiple $500 shopping trips to Safeway every month. What's your alibi?
A conviction for "structuring" needs to prove, in a court of law, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the person "intended" to hide their activity by making multiple <$10K deposits that otherwise would have been > $10K deposits.
You have to prove "intent" to avoid the $10K reporting, which is very difficult to do.
In addition, a SARS report is required to NEVER be made known to the person it is being filled out on. The whole idea is to keep you from knowing your activities are under investigation, lest you change those activities to avoid prosecution. They are breaking the law if they let you know they are filing a SARs on you.
So if any store "breaks out the forms" in front of you, it is for their own record keeping, and it's NOT a SARS report.
Now for the genuine paranoia:
AMEX just added anti "Manufactured Spend" verbiage to BB. They added those very words to the BB TCs, and then used the updated T/C as the reason for terminating BB accounts.
What reason do we have to believe that they will not now do a similar check on AMEX cc and charge card accounts, and close those down if they find similar activity? I don't know about you, but I do have $2,500 bills for Pharmaceutical products at CVS. And DW and I are big eaters, so of course we do multiple $500 shopping trips to Safeway every month. What's your alibi?
Jan 11, 2016, 4:37 pm
#137
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,784
OK, pray tell, where does it say that I can't ask my mom to load money on my card?
Or that I can't make a run to load money on several accounts for everyone because I have time and they do not?
Where does it say that I can't use one of their accounts to load money and pay the bills for a sickly elderly relative?
Where does it say that I can't use MY credit card to pay off that sickly relative's car payments, and then make payments back to my credit card for that relative?
Where does it say that I can't make payments monthly for other relatives, because it's either inconvenient (and handing me cash to cover it is easy) OR, they are laid off and will pay me back in a month or so?
There are many legitimate reasons to 'handle' another person's account.
Or that I can't make a run to load money on several accounts for everyone because I have time and they do not?
Where does it say that I can't use one of their accounts to load money and pay the bills for a sickly elderly relative?
Where does it say that I can't use MY credit card to pay off that sickly relative's car payments, and then make payments back to my credit card for that relative?
Where does it say that I can't make payments monthly for other relatives, because it's either inconvenient (and handing me cash to cover it is easy) OR, they are laid off and will pay me back in a month or so?
There are many legitimate reasons to 'handle' another person's account.
Jan 11, 2016, 4:42 pm
#138
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,072
What reason do we have to believe that they will not now do a similar check on AMEX cc and charge card accounts, and close those down if they find similar activity? I don't know about you, but I do have $2,500 bills for Pharmaceutical products at CVS. And DW and I are big eaters, so of course we do multiple $500 shopping trips to Safeway every month. What's your alibi?
Jan 11, 2016, 4:44 pm
#139
Join Date: Nov 2009
Programs: DL DM-1MM HH Diamond
Posts: 361
Jan 11, 2016, 4:47 pm
#140
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,944
What reason do we have to believe that they will not now do a similar check on AMEX cc and charge card accounts, and close those down if they find similar activity? I don't know about you, but I do have $2,500 bills for Pharmaceutical products at CVS. And DW and I are big eaters, so of course we do multiple $500 shopping trips to Safeway every month. What's your alibi?
Jan 11, 2016, 5:22 pm
#141
Join Date: Jan 2011
Programs: UA S, Marriott P
Posts: 1,154
ironic timing... after taking away ability to load funds on all my accounts, just received this:
Take advantage of FREE Direct Deposit to your Bluebird Account, and get your money fast to shop and pay bills sooner. When filing, all you need is your Bluebird Account Number and Routing Number.
Take advantage of FREE Direct Deposit to your Bluebird Account, and get your money fast to shop and pay bills sooner. When filing, all you need is your Bluebird Account Number and Routing Number.
Jan 11, 2016, 6:54 pm
#142
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,784
The whole thing is moot; no one is going to BB jail. The point is that MS is essentially a legal form of money laundering, and it would be easy to attract scrutiny for transactions that are legal.
Alibi? If Amex starts to crack down on MS on its other cards, I doubt it will take anyone's word for it. Amex takes action first and asks questions later.
Alibi? If Amex starts to crack down on MS on its other cards, I doubt it will take anyone's word for it. Amex takes action first and asks questions later.
One day we have AMEX cards, the next day we don't. That's what I meant about "Genuine Paranoia". Going to jail is not likely, but having all of one's AMEX accounts shut down overnight? Remember, AMEX already freezes all open cards when it decides to do a "financial review".
Unlike some posters on this thread, I'm NOT hoping for this. But I am genuinely worried about it.
I haven't done one penny of MS on an AMEX card since I read that "Manufactured Spend" language added to the BB T/C. The one encouraging thing is that when one did MS with BB, AMEX didn't make a dime on the transaction. But when one does MS with an AMEX card, they make the same profit they make when you do regular spend on that card. So they had no motivation at all to keep BB MS going, but they have a financial reason to keep AMEX MS ongoing. That's the one encouraging thing to remember.
Jan 12, 2016, 11:47 am
#143
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 511
One of my Birds is alive.
Hopefully it stays that way so I don't have to deal with annoying $200 cards for my Ink spend via MO.
Hopefully it stays that way so I don't have to deal with annoying $200 cards for my Ink spend via MO.
Jan 12, 2016, 6:19 pm
#144
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Land of the parrots and parrotheads
Programs: Several dozen
Posts: 4,820
Hearing reports from my Simon mall in Cocaine Cowboy Country about some folks that came back wanting to return giftcards. Something about AMEX not working was referenced. No, they were not holding AMEX Simon cards. Could this be AMEX Bluebird folk stuck holding the gift card bag big time?
Jan 12, 2016, 8:52 pm
#145
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: DFW
Posts: 685
AMex rubbin salt in the wound...just got this email:
REMINDER: Don't forget to reload your Bluebird® Account
Knopfler, your Bluebird® Account is fully reloadable, so you can enjoy using it again and again. Simply add funds with any of these convenient options and you are ready to go:
Add funds at Walmart
Add cash for FREE at virtually any Walmart checkout register. With more than 4,000 Walmart locations nationwide, there′s likely to be one near you.
REMINDER: Don't forget to reload your Bluebird® Account
Knopfler, your Bluebird® Account is fully reloadable, so you can enjoy using it again and again. Simply add funds with any of these convenient options and you are ready to go:
Add funds at Walmart
Add cash for FREE at virtually any Walmart checkout register. With more than 4,000 Walmart locations nationwide, there′s likely to be one near you.
Jan 12, 2016, 9:10 pm
#146
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Atlanta
Programs: Delta Diamond; HHonors Diamond
Posts: 655
AMex rubbin salt in the wound...just got this email:
REMINDER: Don't forget to reload your Bluebird® Account
Knopfler, your Bluebird® Account is fully reloadable, so you can enjoy using it again and again. Simply add funds with any of these convenient options and you are ready to go:
Add funds at Walmart
Add cash for FREE at virtually any Walmart checkout register. With more than 4,000 Walmart locations nationwide, there′s likely to be one near you.
REMINDER: Don't forget to reload your Bluebird® Account
Knopfler, your Bluebird® Account is fully reloadable, so you can enjoy using it again and again. Simply add funds with any of these convenient options and you are ready to go:
Add funds at Walmart
Add cash for FREE at virtually any Walmart checkout register. With more than 4,000 Walmart locations nationwide, there′s likely to be one near you.
Jan 14, 2016, 5:36 pm
#147
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: SAN
Programs: Delta Gold. Hilton Diamond. Hyatt Explorist.
Posts: 1,676
thread cleanup
I purged about three pages worth of posts that consisted of a spirited but off-topic debate about whether or not MS is money laundering. This thread should be used to share information or ask questions about the Bluebird card. Feel free to start a new thread if you want to discuss whether or not Manufactured spending is money laundering.
Jan 16, 2016, 4:24 pm
#148
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 3
Will loading Buxx cause me get shut down as well or just VGC loads they looking for and shutting those people down?
Jan 17, 2016, 6:37 am
#149
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: BOS
Posts: 550
Does anyone see any value in keeping Bluebird accounts with $0 balance around? It does not appear that I'll be able to add money to mine, so can't use it for AMEX offers. Thinking about following the instructions in the email and closing mine down.
Jan 17, 2016, 7:59 am
#150
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 394
I just closed my serve this morning per their suggestions. While doing so, they ask the reason for closing and I chose the "Dissatisfaction" option. They even gave me a frowning face to show they are going to miss me. How nice.