Sep 15, 2015, 12:20 pm
Last edit by: Chelski
Discover is not honoring the initial terms of the promotion that many of us applied for and paid $650 (or more) for an iPhone specifically and only for the initial terms of this promotion.
If you feel you have been unfairly treated legal action may be necessary:
Discover Financial Service's CEO is David W. Nelms. He is also Chairman of the Board of Directors.
Other notable executives are:
Kelly McNamara Corley - General Counsel and Secretary
James V. Panzarino - President: Credit and Card Operations
The physical address of the corporate headquarters is:
DISCOVER FINANCIAL SERVICES
2500 LAKE COOK ROAD
RIVERWOODS, IL, UNITED STATES 60015
from National Information Center.
According to the Illinois Attorney General you can sue, without an attorney, up to $10,000. Riverwoods is in Lake County. Lake County Small Claims page.
Not advising anyone on how to proceed, as I'm not a lawyer, but this is what has worked for me in the past.
- Attempt informal resolution (aka Letter of Demand). Most small claims courts require this but apparently Lake County does not. Make sure you outline your complaint clearly and what you expect in return. Do not be ambiguous. Send carbon copies to executives of interest. Emails will always be ignored. You need to mail physical copies Certified with Return Receipt Requested.
- Start the small claims process. Have the executives served BY THE SHERIFF. Extremely embarrassing for the folks being served. How many times will they tolerate that?
Here's Lake County's procedure for summons:
- Go to court and explain the situation. Don't be vague or ambiquous. Be honest. Was your adversary?
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*****Warning: This information is not intended to constitute legal advice*****
While I disagree w/ your assertion that Discover has no evidence for court...they can subpoena legitimate business records. I do agree with the CFPB complaint avenue. In fact The Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation ("FDIC") is the appropriate Federal banking agency with respect to Discover Bank, Greenwood, Delaware ("Discover"), under section 3(q) of the Federal Deposit Insurance Act ("FDI Act"), 12 U.S.C. § 1813(q). The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (''CFPB") has jurisdiction over Discover, pursuant to sections I002(6), l025 and 1053(b) ofthe Consumer Financial Protection Act ("CFP Act"), 12 U.S.C. §§ 5481(6), 5515 and 5563(b).
The FDIC and CFPB have previously held that Discover has engaged in deceptive acts and practices in or affecting commerce, in violation ofsection 5 ofthe Federal Trade Commission Act ("Section 5"), 15 U.S.C. § 45(a)(l), and in deceptive acts and practices in violation of sections 1031 and 1036 of the CFP Act(together"Section 1036"), 12 U.S.C. §§ 5531,5536.
Furthermore I suspect Discover is currently violating various terms related to a previous enforcement action/consent order including but not limited to:
(a) operating in violation of Section 5 or of Section 1036;
(b) engaging in deceptive marketing and sales of the Products in violation of Section5 or of Section 1036;
(c) operating Discover with an inadequate compliance management system to ensure compliance with Section 5 and with Section 1036 and all implementing rules and regulations, regulatory guidance, and statements ofpolicy;
(d) operating Discover without adequate oversight by the Board and supervision by senior management ofthe Products to ensure compliance with Section 5 and with Section l036 and all implementing rules and regulations, regulatory guidance, and statements of policy; and 5
(e) operating Discover with an inadequate system o f internal controls and an inadequate internal audit system with regard to the Products to ensure compliance with Section 5 and with Section 1036 and all implementing rules and regulations, regulatory guidance, and statements of policy.
Per CPFB Discover shall not make, or allow to be made, any material misleading or deceptive representation, statement, or omission, expressly or by implication, in the marketing materials, telemarketing scripts and/or sales presentation used to solicit any Cardmember or prospective Cardmember, or in any similar communication in connection with any Product.
Discover shall not make or allow to be made, directly or indirectly, any misrepresentation or omission, expressly or by implication, about any material term of an offer related to any Product in connection with the advertising, marketing (including telemarketing and online marketing), offering, soliciting, eligibility, billing, servicing, or account maintenance with respect to a Product, including but not limited to misrepresentations or omissions as to the following:
(i) any and all fees, costs, expenses, and charges associated with the Products;
(ii) all material conditions, benefits, and restrictions related to the Products;
(iii) the purpose of sales calls and/or sales portions of servicing or other calls;
(iv) payment terms for a Product, including a description of when a
Cardmember will be charged for a Product or incur charges for a Product;
(v) refunds or adjustments for a Product fee and Discover policies for such
refunds and adjustments.
The foregoing information has been cited from the FEDERAL DEPOSIT INSURANCE CORPORATION / CONSUMER FINANCIAL PROTECTION BUREAU
JOINT CONSENT ORDER, ORDER FOR RESTITUTION, AND ORDER TO PAY CIVIL
MONEY PENALTY
Docket Numbers FDIC-ll-548b; FDIC-ll-55lk & 2012-CFPB-0005
http://files.consumerfinance.gov/f/2...order_0005.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
See below for a draft CFPB complaint. A "Plain English" variation may be better suited for you depending upon what you are comfortable with.
*****Warning: This information is not intended to constitute legal advice*****
The Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation ("FDIC") is the appropriate Federal banking agency with respect to Discover Bank, Greenwood, Delaware ("Discover"), under section 3(q) of the Federal Deposit Insurance Act ("FDI Act"), 12 U.S.C. § 1813(q). The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (''CFPB") has jurisdiction over Discover, pursuant to sections I002(6), l025 and 1053(b) of the Consumer Financial Protection Act ("CFP Act"), 12 U.S.C. §§ 5481(6), 5515 and 5563(b).
Myself and numerous other similarly situated Discover consumers have not reasonably been able to obtain rewards, as marketed and represented by the entity. Discover has engaged in unfair practices by imposing "burdensome requirements" on consumers in connection with its suggestion that receipts need to be submitted in order to claim the rewards offered under the promotion. Curiously, the terms and conditions governing the Discover promotion in question have never outwardly stated that the consumer needed to keep receipts.
The terms of the promotion
This promotion is referenced on Discover's website: under the Apple Pay FAQ section of Discover's website. The relevant details are under the "Earn Rewards" section:
“What are the details for the 10% Cashback Bonus® promotion? Cashback Bonus Earn an extra 10% Cashback Bonus on up to $10,000 of in-store purchases when you use your Discover card with Apple Pay now through 12/31/15. Excludes gift card purchases. No sign up needed. Rewards earned are in addition to your standard rewards and are added to your Cashback Bonus account within 2 billing periods. See Cashback Bonus Program Terms and Conditions for more information. Miles version: Earn an extra 10 miles per dollar on up to $10,000 of in-store purchases when you use your Discover card with Apple Pay now through 12/31/15. Excludes gift cards. No sign up needed. Rewards earned are in addition to your standard rewards and are added to your Miles account within 2 billing periods. See Miles Program Terms and Conditions for more information.”
https://www.discover.com/credit-card...apple-pay.html - q21
https://www.discover.com/credit-card...-it-miles.html
THE PERVASIVE NATURE OF THE PROBLEM
• The gift card exclusion was added several days after the promotion was launched
• Discover is now blanket rejecting purchases above a certain amount
• Discover is requiring customers to retain receipts
• Discover does not have the requirement to keep receipts in the Terms and Conditions governing the promotion
• This is a blatant attack on consumer privacy
• The burden of proof is shifted to the consumer, instead of the credit card company
• If Discover wants to exclude gift cards, they need to do it accurately and automatically, without the need of receipts being sent into Discover.
[email protected] sent e-mails to me which erroneously suggested that the following transaction’s on my account included a gift cards:
As described above Discover is blanket denying all large purchases under the false suggestion that they contain gift cards when in fact none of my purchases contained gift cards.
As a result I am still missing bonus mileage credit for the following purchases which are in fact eligible and qualify for the Discover & APPLE PAY 10% BONUS promotion:
Discovers actions are Unfair, Deceptive and Abusive under Section 1036
Section 1036 defines an "unfair" act or practice as follows:
The act or practice causes or is likely to cause substantial injury to consumers.
The injury is not reasonably avoidable by consumers.
The injury is not outweighed by countervailing benefits to consumers or to competition.
Section 1036 outlines deceptive. The Bureau's articulation of "deceptive" follows the FTC's; beginning with the inclusion not only of acts or practices but also representations and omissions. There is not just an obligation to avoid lying (which Discover is clearly doing in this situation), there is an affirmative obligation of full disclosure. By omitting the requirement for the consumer to save receipts in the terms and conditions and then seeking to condition the payment of rewards on submission of receipts is the definition of deception. Here is the most important advice on deception from the Bureau, which creates an affirmative obligation not to omit any information necessary for full customer evaluation of the product: omissions will be presumed to be material when the financial institution knew or should have known that the consumer needed the omitted information to evaluate the product or service.
Can Discover honestly say that it did not know in the situation outlined above that the consumer needed the omitted information to evaluate the product or service?
And finally, Abusive.
There are four separate ways in which an act or practice can be found to be abusive under Section 1031 of the Act:
Material interference with the consumer's ability to understand a term or condition.
Taking unreasonable advantage of:
The consumer's lack of understanding of material risks, costs or conditions.
The inability of the consumer to protect himself in selecting or using the product/service.
Key product terms or features are not readily available to consumers.
Discover never made known to consumers the full terms such as requiring receipts until after the offer had been accepted and the cardholder no longer was able to carefully consider the full extent of the exercise. This practice is Unfair, Deceptive and Abusive on it’s face.
I will add that the FDIC and CFPB have already previously held that Discover has engaged in deceptive acts and practices in or affecting commerce, in violation of section 5 of the Federal Trade Commission Act ("Section 5"), 15 U.S.C. § 45(a)(l), and in deceptive acts and practices in violation of sections 1031 and 1036 of the CFP Act(together "Section 1036"), 12 U.S.C. §§ 5531,5536.
Citing the above information described in this complaint it is readily apparent that Discover is currently violating numerous terms of the previous FDIC/CFPB enforcement action/consent order including but not limited to:
(a) operating in violation of Section 5 or of Section 1036;
(b) engaging in deceptive marketing and sales of the Products in violation of Section5 or of Section 1036;
(c) operating Discover with an inadequate compliance management system to ensure compliance with Section 5 and with Section 1036 and all implementing rules and regulations, regulatory guidance, and statements of policy;
(d) operating Discover without adequate oversight by the Board and supervision by senior management of the Products to ensure compliance with Section 5 and with Section l036 and all implementing rules and regulations, regulatory guidance, and statements of policy; and 5
(e) operating Discover with an inadequate system o f internal controls and an inadequate internal audit system with regard to the Products to ensure compliance with Section 5 and with Section 1036 and all implementing rules and regulations, regulatory guidance, and statements of policy.
Per CPFB Discover shall not make, or allow to be made, any material misleading or deceptive representation, statement, or omission, expressly or by implication, in the marketing materials, telemarketing scripts and/or sales presentation used to solicit any Cardmember or prospective Cardmember, or in any similar communication in connection with any Product.
Discover shall not make or allow to be made, directly or indirectly, any misrepresentation or omission, expressly or by implication, about any material term of an offer related to any Product in connection with the advertising, marketing (including telemarketing and online marketing), offering, soliciting, eligibility, billing, servicing, or account maintenance with respect to a Product, including but not limited to misrepresentations or omissions as to the following:
(i) any and all fees, costs, expenses, and charges associated with the Products;
(ii) all material conditions, benefits, and restrictions related to the Products.
The foregoing information has been cited from enforcement action/consent order docket Numbers FDIC-ll-548b; FDIC-ll-55lk & 2012-CFPB-0005)
http://files.consumerfinance.gov/f/2...order_0005.pdf
Taking the above into account my desired resolution is that if Discover wants to exclude gift card purchases, they need to be able to do it automatically and accurately. The burden of proof should not fall on the consumer and consumers should not need to keep receipts, as this was never outlined in the terms and conditions. In light of these unfair, deceptive and abusive actions against consumers, Discover should honor all Apple Pay purchases with the advertised bonus of 10% or 10X miles.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
11/23: Discover gave 10% cash back without receipts if you bought gift cards PRIOR to September 18, 2015. Purchases from Sept 18th onward may get flagged by Discover (parameters unknown) for which receipts are requested.
9/18: the terms are now shown in the wallet app, and exclude gift cards. Discover's Apple Pay FAQ has been updated to reflect these new terms. It's unknown if this will be enforced or not.
There are two references to this promotion on Discover's website:
If you feel you have been unfairly treated legal action may be necessary:
Discover Financial Service's CEO is David W. Nelms. He is also Chairman of the Board of Directors.
Other notable executives are:
Kelly McNamara Corley - General Counsel and Secretary
James V. Panzarino - President: Credit and Card Operations
The physical address of the corporate headquarters is:
DISCOVER FINANCIAL SERVICES
2500 LAKE COOK ROAD
RIVERWOODS, IL, UNITED STATES 60015
from National Information Center.
According to the Illinois Attorney General you can sue, without an attorney, up to $10,000. Riverwoods is in Lake County. Lake County Small Claims page.
Not advising anyone on how to proceed, as I'm not a lawyer, but this is what has worked for me in the past.
- Attempt informal resolution (aka Letter of Demand). Most small claims courts require this but apparently Lake County does not. Make sure you outline your complaint clearly and what you expect in return. Do not be ambiguous. Send carbon copies to executives of interest. Emails will always be ignored. You need to mail physical copies Certified with Return Receipt Requested.
- Start the small claims process. Have the executives served BY THE SHERIFF. Extremely embarrassing for the folks being served. How many times will they tolerate that?
Here's Lake County's procedure for summons:
B. Arrange to notify the defendant of the suit. This can be done in one of three ways:
1. If the defendant has a mailing address within the state of Illinois, you may choose to give notice by serving summons by certified mail, return receipt requested. You should fill out and sign the AFFIDAVIT FOR SERVICE BY CERTIFIED MAIL found on the reverse side of the Small Claim Summons. Only the clerk, not you, may mail the summons. This method is less expensive than the second. However, if the letter carrier is unable to obtain the necessary signature on the postal receipt (green card), you will have to ask the clerk to issue a second (alias) summons.
2. If you choose to have the Sheriff serve the summons, place the summons (one original, two copies, each having attached a copy of the complaint) with the Sheriff for hand delivery to the defendant. If the defendant is to be served in Lake County, deliver the summons to the Civil Process Division of the Lake County Sheriff’s Office. If the defendant is to be served somewhere outside Lake county, you must arrange to deliver the summons to the Sheriff of the appropriate county and state.
3. Place the summons and copies mentioned in paragraph 2 with a licensed/registered private detective for hand delivery to the defendant.
1. If the defendant has a mailing address within the state of Illinois, you may choose to give notice by serving summons by certified mail, return receipt requested. You should fill out and sign the AFFIDAVIT FOR SERVICE BY CERTIFIED MAIL found on the reverse side of the Small Claim Summons. Only the clerk, not you, may mail the summons. This method is less expensive than the second. However, if the letter carrier is unable to obtain the necessary signature on the postal receipt (green card), you will have to ask the clerk to issue a second (alias) summons.
2. If you choose to have the Sheriff serve the summons, place the summons (one original, two copies, each having attached a copy of the complaint) with the Sheriff for hand delivery to the defendant. If the defendant is to be served in Lake County, deliver the summons to the Civil Process Division of the Lake County Sheriff’s Office. If the defendant is to be served somewhere outside Lake county, you must arrange to deliver the summons to the Sheriff of the appropriate county and state.
3. Place the summons and copies mentioned in paragraph 2 with a licensed/registered private detective for hand delivery to the defendant.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
*****Warning: This information is not intended to constitute legal advice*****
While I disagree w/ your assertion that Discover has no evidence for court...they can subpoena legitimate business records. I do agree with the CFPB complaint avenue. In fact The Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation ("FDIC") is the appropriate Federal banking agency with respect to Discover Bank, Greenwood, Delaware ("Discover"), under section 3(q) of the Federal Deposit Insurance Act ("FDI Act"), 12 U.S.C. § 1813(q). The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (''CFPB") has jurisdiction over Discover, pursuant to sections I002(6), l025 and 1053(b) ofthe Consumer Financial Protection Act ("CFP Act"), 12 U.S.C. §§ 5481(6), 5515 and 5563(b).
The FDIC and CFPB have previously held that Discover has engaged in deceptive acts and practices in or affecting commerce, in violation ofsection 5 ofthe Federal Trade Commission Act ("Section 5"), 15 U.S.C. § 45(a)(l), and in deceptive acts and practices in violation of sections 1031 and 1036 of the CFP Act(together"Section 1036"), 12 U.S.C. §§ 5531,5536.
Furthermore I suspect Discover is currently violating various terms related to a previous enforcement action/consent order including but not limited to:
(a) operating in violation of Section 5 or of Section 1036;
(b) engaging in deceptive marketing and sales of the Products in violation of Section5 or of Section 1036;
(c) operating Discover with an inadequate compliance management system to ensure compliance with Section 5 and with Section 1036 and all implementing rules and regulations, regulatory guidance, and statements ofpolicy;
(d) operating Discover without adequate oversight by the Board and supervision by senior management ofthe Products to ensure compliance with Section 5 and with Section l036 and all implementing rules and regulations, regulatory guidance, and statements of policy; and 5
(e) operating Discover with an inadequate system o f internal controls and an inadequate internal audit system with regard to the Products to ensure compliance with Section 5 and with Section 1036 and all implementing rules and regulations, regulatory guidance, and statements of policy.
Per CPFB Discover shall not make, or allow to be made, any material misleading or deceptive representation, statement, or omission, expressly or by implication, in the marketing materials, telemarketing scripts and/or sales presentation used to solicit any Cardmember or prospective Cardmember, or in any similar communication in connection with any Product.
Discover shall not make or allow to be made, directly or indirectly, any misrepresentation or omission, expressly or by implication, about any material term of an offer related to any Product in connection with the advertising, marketing (including telemarketing and online marketing), offering, soliciting, eligibility, billing, servicing, or account maintenance with respect to a Product, including but not limited to misrepresentations or omissions as to the following:
(i) any and all fees, costs, expenses, and charges associated with the Products;
(ii) all material conditions, benefits, and restrictions related to the Products;
(iii) the purpose of sales calls and/or sales portions of servicing or other calls;
(iv) payment terms for a Product, including a description of when a
Cardmember will be charged for a Product or incur charges for a Product;
(v) refunds or adjustments for a Product fee and Discover policies for such
refunds and adjustments.
The foregoing information has been cited from the FEDERAL DEPOSIT INSURANCE CORPORATION / CONSUMER FINANCIAL PROTECTION BUREAU
JOINT CONSENT ORDER, ORDER FOR RESTITUTION, AND ORDER TO PAY CIVIL
MONEY PENALTY
Docket Numbers FDIC-ll-548b; FDIC-ll-55lk & 2012-CFPB-0005
http://files.consumerfinance.gov/f/2...order_0005.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
See below for a draft CFPB complaint. A "Plain English" variation may be better suited for you depending upon what you are comfortable with.
*****Warning: This information is not intended to constitute legal advice*****
The Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation ("FDIC") is the appropriate Federal banking agency with respect to Discover Bank, Greenwood, Delaware ("Discover"), under section 3(q) of the Federal Deposit Insurance Act ("FDI Act"), 12 U.S.C. § 1813(q). The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (''CFPB") has jurisdiction over Discover, pursuant to sections I002(6), l025 and 1053(b) of the Consumer Financial Protection Act ("CFP Act"), 12 U.S.C. §§ 5481(6), 5515 and 5563(b).
Myself and numerous other similarly situated Discover consumers have not reasonably been able to obtain rewards, as marketed and represented by the entity. Discover has engaged in unfair practices by imposing "burdensome requirements" on consumers in connection with its suggestion that receipts need to be submitted in order to claim the rewards offered under the promotion. Curiously, the terms and conditions governing the Discover promotion in question have never outwardly stated that the consumer needed to keep receipts.
The terms of the promotion
This promotion is referenced on Discover's website: under the Apple Pay FAQ section of Discover's website. The relevant details are under the "Earn Rewards" section:
“What are the details for the 10% Cashback Bonus® promotion? Cashback Bonus Earn an extra 10% Cashback Bonus on up to $10,000 of in-store purchases when you use your Discover card with Apple Pay now through 12/31/15. Excludes gift card purchases. No sign up needed. Rewards earned are in addition to your standard rewards and are added to your Cashback Bonus account within 2 billing periods. See Cashback Bonus Program Terms and Conditions for more information. Miles version: Earn an extra 10 miles per dollar on up to $10,000 of in-store purchases when you use your Discover card with Apple Pay now through 12/31/15. Excludes gift cards. No sign up needed. Rewards earned are in addition to your standard rewards and are added to your Miles account within 2 billing periods. See Miles Program Terms and Conditions for more information.”
https://www.discover.com/credit-card...apple-pay.html - q21
https://www.discover.com/credit-card...-it-miles.html
THE PERVASIVE NATURE OF THE PROBLEM
• The gift card exclusion was added several days after the promotion was launched
• Discover is now blanket rejecting purchases above a certain amount
• Discover is requiring customers to retain receipts
• Discover does not have the requirement to keep receipts in the Terms and Conditions governing the promotion
• This is a blatant attack on consumer privacy
• The burden of proof is shifted to the consumer, instead of the credit card company
• If Discover wants to exclude gift cards, they need to do it accurately and automatically, without the need of receipts being sent into Discover.
[email protected] sent e-mails to me which erroneously suggested that the following transaction’s on my account included a gift cards:
As described above Discover is blanket denying all large purchases under the false suggestion that they contain gift cards when in fact none of my purchases contained gift cards.
As a result I am still missing bonus mileage credit for the following purchases which are in fact eligible and qualify for the Discover & APPLE PAY 10% BONUS promotion:
Discovers actions are Unfair, Deceptive and Abusive under Section 1036
Section 1036 defines an "unfair" act or practice as follows:
The act or practice causes or is likely to cause substantial injury to consumers.
The injury is not reasonably avoidable by consumers.
The injury is not outweighed by countervailing benefits to consumers or to competition.
Section 1036 outlines deceptive. The Bureau's articulation of "deceptive" follows the FTC's; beginning with the inclusion not only of acts or practices but also representations and omissions. There is not just an obligation to avoid lying (which Discover is clearly doing in this situation), there is an affirmative obligation of full disclosure. By omitting the requirement for the consumer to save receipts in the terms and conditions and then seeking to condition the payment of rewards on submission of receipts is the definition of deception. Here is the most important advice on deception from the Bureau, which creates an affirmative obligation not to omit any information necessary for full customer evaluation of the product: omissions will be presumed to be material when the financial institution knew or should have known that the consumer needed the omitted information to evaluate the product or service.
Can Discover honestly say that it did not know in the situation outlined above that the consumer needed the omitted information to evaluate the product or service?
And finally, Abusive.
There are four separate ways in which an act or practice can be found to be abusive under Section 1031 of the Act:
Material interference with the consumer's ability to understand a term or condition.
Taking unreasonable advantage of:
The consumer's lack of understanding of material risks, costs or conditions.
The inability of the consumer to protect himself in selecting or using the product/service.
Key product terms or features are not readily available to consumers.
Discover never made known to consumers the full terms such as requiring receipts until after the offer had been accepted and the cardholder no longer was able to carefully consider the full extent of the exercise. This practice is Unfair, Deceptive and Abusive on it’s face.
I will add that the FDIC and CFPB have already previously held that Discover has engaged in deceptive acts and practices in or affecting commerce, in violation of section 5 of the Federal Trade Commission Act ("Section 5"), 15 U.S.C. § 45(a)(l), and in deceptive acts and practices in violation of sections 1031 and 1036 of the CFP Act(together "Section 1036"), 12 U.S.C. §§ 5531,5536.
Citing the above information described in this complaint it is readily apparent that Discover is currently violating numerous terms of the previous FDIC/CFPB enforcement action/consent order including but not limited to:
(a) operating in violation of Section 5 or of Section 1036;
(b) engaging in deceptive marketing and sales of the Products in violation of Section5 or of Section 1036;
(c) operating Discover with an inadequate compliance management system to ensure compliance with Section 5 and with Section 1036 and all implementing rules and regulations, regulatory guidance, and statements of policy;
(d) operating Discover without adequate oversight by the Board and supervision by senior management of the Products to ensure compliance with Section 5 and with Section l036 and all implementing rules and regulations, regulatory guidance, and statements of policy; and 5
(e) operating Discover with an inadequate system o f internal controls and an inadequate internal audit system with regard to the Products to ensure compliance with Section 5 and with Section 1036 and all implementing rules and regulations, regulatory guidance, and statements of policy.
Per CPFB Discover shall not make, or allow to be made, any material misleading or deceptive representation, statement, or omission, expressly or by implication, in the marketing materials, telemarketing scripts and/or sales presentation used to solicit any Cardmember or prospective Cardmember, or in any similar communication in connection with any Product.
Discover shall not make or allow to be made, directly or indirectly, any misrepresentation or omission, expressly or by implication, about any material term of an offer related to any Product in connection with the advertising, marketing (including telemarketing and online marketing), offering, soliciting, eligibility, billing, servicing, or account maintenance with respect to a Product, including but not limited to misrepresentations or omissions as to the following:
(i) any and all fees, costs, expenses, and charges associated with the Products;
(ii) all material conditions, benefits, and restrictions related to the Products.
The foregoing information has been cited from enforcement action/consent order docket Numbers FDIC-ll-548b; FDIC-ll-55lk & 2012-CFPB-0005)
http://files.consumerfinance.gov/f/2...order_0005.pdf
Taking the above into account my desired resolution is that if Discover wants to exclude gift card purchases, they need to be able to do it automatically and accurately. The burden of proof should not fall on the consumer and consumers should not need to keep receipts, as this was never outlined in the terms and conditions. In light of these unfair, deceptive and abusive actions against consumers, Discover should honor all Apple Pay purchases with the advertised bonus of 10% or 10X miles.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
11/23: Discover gave 10% cash back without receipts if you bought gift cards PRIOR to September 18, 2015. Purchases from Sept 18th onward may get flagged by Discover (parameters unknown) for which receipts are requested.
9/18: the terms are now shown in the wallet app, and exclude gift cards. Discover's Apple Pay FAQ has been updated to reflect these new terms. It's unknown if this will be enforced or not.
There are two references to this promotion on Discover's website:
- The Apple Pay FAQ on Discover's website. The relevant details are under the "Earn Rewards" section.The previous terms are below. Once again, the following terms are NOT the terms that are currently in effect. (If you made any transactions under the old terms that may be excluded by the new terms, I hope you saved copies of the old terms!)What are the details for the 10% Cashback Bonus® promotion?
Cashback Bonus
Earn an extra 10% Cashback Bonus on up to $10,000 of in-store purchases when you use your Discover card with Apple Pay now through 12/31/15. Excludes gift card purchases. No sign up needed.
Rewards earned are in addition to your standard rewards and are added to your Cashback Bonus account within 2 billing periods. See Cashback Bonus Program Terms and Conditions for more information.
Miles version:
Earn an extra 10 miles per dollar on up to $10,000 of in-store purchases when you use your Discover card with Apple Pay now through 12/31/15. Excludes gift cards. No sign up needed.
Rewards earned are in addition to your standard rewards and are added to your Miles account within 2 billing periods. See Miles Program Terms and Conditions for more information.What are the details for the 10% Cashback Bonus® promotion?
Cashback Bonus:
Earn an extra 10% Cashback Bonus on up to $10,000 of in-store purchases when you use your Discover card with Apple Pay now through December 31, 2015. Rewards earned are in addition to your standard rewards and are added to your Cashback Bonus account within 2 billing periods. See Cashback Bonus Program Terms and Conditions for more information.
Miles:
Earn an extra 10 miles per dollar on up to $10,000 of in-store purchases when you use your Discover card with Apple Pay now through December 31, 2015 now through 12/31/15. Rewards earned are in addition to your standard rewards and are added to your Miles account within 2 billing periods. See Miles Program Terms and Conditions for more information. The press release on Discover's website. This is the same press release that was distributed on Business Wire's website.(Warning: The terms described in this press release are not consistent with the current terms, which exclude gift cards. This is a press release, not a living document, so an update is unexpected/unlikely.)From September 16, to the end of the year, cardmembers who pay with their Discover card using Apple Pay will automatically earn an extra 10% Cashback Bonus on up to $10,000 of in-store purchases. Discover it Miles, Miles and Escape cardmembers will earn an extra 10 miles per dollar on up to $10,000 of in-store purchases.
- I can't add my discover card.
you need to upgrade to iOS9 to add the Discover card.
- Can I have more than 2 Discover cards?
It is not possible, as you can only have two Discover Credit products at any one time, and you can only open your second one after having the first for at least 12 months.
- If I add my SO as an AU will both of our cards get the 10 bonus or is it 1 per account?
1 per account
- How do I get Apple Pay?
You will need either an iPhone 6 or an Apple Watch linked to an iPhone 5 or iPhone 6
- Which stores accept Apple Pay?
see: http://www.apple.com/apple-pay/where-to-use-apple-pay/
- Which cards are eligible for the Apple Pay 10% Cashback Bonus promotion?
The following Discover cards are eligible for the promotion:
Discover it®
Discover it Chrome
Discover More®
Discover Open Road®
Discover Motiva℠ - How do I report Apple Pay Discover transaction issues at merchants?
see: http://www.apple.com/feedback/apple-pay.html
- Are Apple pay purchases made through store apps on the iphone eligible for this promo?
No, purchases must be made in store.
- How do I determine how much Cashback is from the Apple Pay promo?
Log into full discover website (desktop version). Navigate to recent transactions. From this view select the statement period. Once you have the statement transactions up you should see a detailed break out of the Cashback by 5%, discover deals, AP， etc... You will have to view each statement to get total AP. You can download transactions to excel to try and figure out which match up to AP payout.
Discover 10% Cashback Bonus in-store through 2015 when using Apple Pay, up to $10k
Oct 4, 2015, 12:30 am
#886
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 45
The new walgreens AP system is a PITA. Having to present the device again after getting the 'Done' on the phone is weird, I have to re-verify again using touch ID. I ran into issues where it would timeout when it asked me to present the device again. The cashier had to hit back and then clicked payment again and I had to redo the AP process. This left me duplicate pending charges, anyone run into the same thing? Did those pending charges fall off automatically or did you have to dispute?
Oct 4, 2015, 1:40 am
#889
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 20
a lot of people are also of the opinion that there's no way discover knows what you're buying anyways so they can't exclude gift cards, but every gift card i bought at walgreens came with an activation receipt, so there's definitely more information available than what is printed on your receipt.
yes. this is happening with my 'local' supermarket chain.
visa, mc and amex work fine, but using a discover with AP brings up a "please select payment method" prompt on the terminal. selecting credit on that screen (or any other option) then leads to an "invalid card type" error.
frustrating, and i'm sure discover isn't fond of this either. if you have twitter, make sure to report it to @discover (please also '@' mention the non-accepting store in the tweet to call them out).
visa, mc and amex work fine, but using a discover with AP brings up a "please select payment method" prompt on the terminal. selecting credit on that screen (or any other option) then leads to an "invalid card type" error.
frustrating, and i'm sure discover isn't fond of this either. if you have twitter, make sure to report it to @discover (please also '@' mention the non-accepting store in the tweet to call them out).
Oct 4, 2015, 8:37 am
#892
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 25
Had a very frustrating experience at a local WAG this morning. Went to buy 1 $500 VGC (this is one of the few stores in my area that have the $4.95 fee reloadable vs the $5.95 fee reloadable). Cashier asked how I would be paying and I said credit at which point she asked for my ID and the card. I said I don't physically have the card it is on my phone and gave her my ID. She called over manager who said I couldn't purchase these cards with my phone. I said, "I do it all the time, watch" and immediately used the phone to pay for the purchase. His eyes were huge as he watched the receipts print in front of him. He said he needed to see the card to match on the receipt or he would need to void it. I briefly told him how apple pay works and the last 4 on the receipt wont match the last 4 on my phone. He said because they didn't match he was going to have to post void the transaction. I happen to be a branch manager of a local bank and pulled out a business card (I always carry them on me when MSing just in case they need a little more validity with who they are talking to and my knowledge of banking transactions) and I went over the process of tokenization, how Apple Pay is more secure than any other form of payment etc. He said he was worried because they deal with people making fake credit cards and its a give away when the last 4 on the receipt don't match the last 4 on the physical fake card presented. I acknowledged that is a great way to catch fraud, but with apple pay there is no fraud because the only way I can get a card on the phone is by verifying with my bank that I am the card holder, I cant just steal someone card and add it to apple pay. After a bunch of back and forth he said "this is why I stick with cash, everything is too complicated now" I was about to argue how stupid of a comment that was but he was getting tired of me having a response to everything he said. he let it go but on my way out I heard him tell all the cashiers that for now on only physical cards could be used for any GC purchase.
Store managers making their own policies sets an awful precedent for the company because if they can make their own policy about valid methods of purchases, where does their override authority stop? As a company, they should be worried about all of these stores having inconsistent policies that don't match with corporate policies. It greatly opens them up for possible lawsuits and negative public perception. It would not have been difficult to say is I am being discriminated against since this store is making unique policies prohibiting what I should be able to do based off of corporate policies and now Walgreens has a potentially major problem all because stores managers think they know better than corporate policy makers.
TLDR: frustrated WG cant properly educate their employees about how secure Apple Pay is and instead each store seems to make up their own policies as seen fit by the manager.
Store managers making their own policies sets an awful precedent for the company because if they can make their own policy about valid methods of purchases, where does their override authority stop? As a company, they should be worried about all of these stores having inconsistent policies that don't match with corporate policies. It greatly opens them up for possible lawsuits and negative public perception. It would not have been difficult to say is I am being discriminated against since this store is making unique policies prohibiting what I should be able to do based off of corporate policies and now Walgreens has a potentially major problem all because stores managers think they know better than corporate policy makers.
TLDR: frustrated WG cant properly educate their employees about how secure Apple Pay is and instead each store seems to make up their own policies as seen fit by the manager.
Last edited by 8illy; Oct 4, 2015 at 8:45 am
Oct 4, 2015, 9:18 am
#893
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 162
Discover 10% Cashback Bonus in-store through 2015 when using Apple Pay, up to $10k
Call the 800 number. My experience over the last week with this promo runs from "I can't sell more than $500, it's a federal law" to "you can't buy a credit card with a credit cArd" I've received some balance rewards for my trouble but man, I've read the policy, I've had a manager print it for me. If you don't let Corp know, they cannot retrain people about their products that they know nothing about.
Oct 4, 2015, 9:26 am
#894
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 284
http://www.latimes.com/business/hilt...07-column.html
Oct 4, 2015, 9:44 am
#895
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 20
You still get double Cashback with gift cards（first year). Worst case is you get 1% (no first year double) and are out time for liquidating. Luckily, $10k can be liquidated within an hour. Remember AP says it will not provide our personal details and will provide privacy for transactions. If certain purchases get excluded then we know more information is being transferred from AP to the credit company.
Oct 4, 2015, 9:52 am
#896
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 25
Sadly, this wasn't/isn't always the case for all bank cards.
http://www.latimes.com/business/hilt...07-column.html
http://www.latimes.com/business/hilt...07-column.html
Not to mention that the only way the card theft discussed in the article works is if you hack a business system to obtain both card information and personal information. This all but ends with the advent of chip cards because the stores will never know the card information, only the random token given by the chip. So before hackers got card info and possibly personal info but with chip they will never have card info only personal information if they digitally hack the businesses systems and conversely if they steal the physical card they will have the card info but not the personal information. This risk will drastically be reduced close to 0 over the next month or two if it already isn't at 0.
I think there is a reason this article is from March and you don't see more articles recently because this was an issue but banks (who are not in the market of taking risk with deposit products) have recognized that risk and filled the void. Is it perfect? No, nothing is I suppose but Walgreens should be less worried about someone paying with apple pay than a physical non-chip credit card as far as they are concerned with fraud.
Last edited by 8illy; Oct 4, 2015 at 10:15 am
Oct 4, 2015, 9:59 am
#897
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 284
That article is from March, just about 7 months ago. You are absolutely right that with this new technology that was unleashed to the masses there were absolutely holes to fill. Working for a bank I can tell you that the process is a lot more tight now. While speaking with the bank security dept about this exact issues a few weeks ago they mentioned that internally they have enough "digital verifications" to practically eliminate the problem that was discussed in the article. The phone number of the phone you are using for Apple Pay must match the phone number we have on file before the card is verified and 9 times out of 10 we send a digital verification code to the phone number on file or our banking app on the phone that must be verified for the setup. I know setting up my Discover card they texted the phone number on file a verification code before it would be activated.
I think there is a reason this article is from March and you don't see more articles recently because this was an issue but banks (who are not in the market of taking risk with deposit products) have recognized that risk and filled the void. Is it perfect? No, nothing is I suppose but as absolutely Walgreens should be less worried about someone paying with apple pay than a physical non-chip credit card as far as they are concerned with fraud.
I think there is a reason this article is from March and you don't see more articles recently because this was an issue but banks (who are not in the market of taking risk with deposit products) have recognized that risk and filled the void. Is it perfect? No, nothing is I suppose but as absolutely Walgreens should be less worried about someone paying with apple pay than a physical non-chip credit card as far as they are concerned with fraud.
That they (Apple and the banks) allowed it to occur in the first place however, is amazing to me.
Oct 4, 2015, 1:24 pm
#898
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,837
has anyone tried at staples?
are they having the same issues like WG?
after the 2nd try I was prompted to enter the account number.
(csr kept on asking my phone number and I didn't want to. he also insisted I needed to hold my thumb, but I didn't configure it for thumb print)
I ended up using my chase ink.
are they having the same issues like WG?
after the 2nd try I was prompted to enter the account number.
(csr kept on asking my phone number and I didn't want to. he also insisted I needed to hold my thumb, but I didn't configure it for thumb print)
I ended up using my chase ink.
Oct 4, 2015, 2:06 pm
#899
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 25
has anyone tried at staples?
are they having the same issues like WG?
after the 2nd try I was prompted to enter the account number.
(csr kept on asking my phone number and I didn't want to. he also insisted I needed to hold my thumb, but I didn't configure it for thumb print)
I ended up using my chase ink.
are they having the same issues like WG?
after the 2nd try I was prompted to enter the account number.
(csr kept on asking my phone number and I didn't want to. he also insisted I needed to hold my thumb, but I didn't configure it for thumb print)
I ended up using my chase ink.
Oct 4, 2015, 2:16 pm
#900
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,837
I have used it 3 times at Meijer with just the passcode. Even if the phone is unlocked, I need to type passcode again to use AP