Community
Wiki Posts
Search

MS = Reverse Agency Problem?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Aug 26, 2014 | 12:14 pm
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Midland
Posts: 55
MS = Reverse Agency Problem?

Definition of Agency Problem:

A conflict of interest inherent in any relationship where one party is expected to act in another's best interests. The problem is that the agent who is supposed to make the decisions that would best serve the principal is naturally motivated by self-interest, and the agent's own best interests may differ from the principal's best interests. The agency problem is also known as the "principal–agent problem."
Source.

As a client of a credit card company, you're expected, on average, to act in a way that is beneficial to the company's financial interests though not with a sense of free will in the process. For example, you may rack up huge charges and maybe even receive a sign-in bonus. But the huge interest charges and an occasional late fee will quickly neutralize the sign-in bonus, resulting in profits to the bank in the average case.

An MSer doesn't play by these "unwritten" rules and charges the hell out of his cards, racks up hefty rewards, and "recycles" the money charged to pay back the loan, thereby repeating the process over and over again..

Principal-Agent Problem: Agent games the system and acts in its own best interests rather than Principal's

Reverse Agency Problem: Principal games the system an acts in its own best interests over Agent's.

Thoughts?

Last edited by ragnarkar; Aug 26, 2014 at 12:21 pm
ragnarkar is offline  
Old Aug 26, 2014 | 12:17 pm
  #2  
Suspended
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,998
"where one party is expected to act in another's best interests."

As far as I'm concerned, Amex is acting in my best interests by offering 5%
Stoughton is offline  
Old Aug 26, 2014 | 12:19 pm
  #3  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 866
Slow MS day?
Father-of-3 is offline  
Old Aug 26, 2014 | 12:21 pm
  #4  
All eyes on you!
10 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,012
A credit card customer is not acting as an "agent" for the card company.
trouble747 is offline  
Old Aug 26, 2014 | 12:38 pm
  #5  
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: PHL
Posts: 930
Thoughts? Stop trying to be a bad a$$ Internet lawyer.
commdiver is offline  
Old Aug 26, 2014 | 12:58 pm
  #6  
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 511
We aren't agents first of all. The relationship between a realtor and a house buyer is one. CC company and us is not.

And anyway, I don't see how we aren't acting in the issuer's best interest in most all cases.

A $500 charge by a MSer is equally as profitable to the CC issuer as a $500 charge by someone purchasing a high end electronic like a television. The issuer gets the transaction fees regardless.

You can't call an MSer a violator of this principal while at the same time saying someone who pays off in full each month is also a violator.

And I would disagree wholly that either party is disadvantaged. To expand further, MS on most cards is still profitable the CC company. I.E., the swipe fees AmEx receives from the merchant for a Starwood AmEx charge is assuredly higher than what AmEx pays Starwood per point. Especially given that rewards cards cost merchants more in swipe fees than rewards cards.

The CC user and the issuer operate symbiotically in this MS relationship, absent fraud/chargeback abuse or ducking out on your unpaid balances.

This is why for 99% of people MSing, they don't get any grief from their card issuer except for occasional fraud alerts. We're profitable. No reason to stop us from doing what we do.

Last edited by hamhead; Aug 26, 2014 at 1:48 pm
hamhead is offline  
Old Aug 26, 2014 | 1:42 pm
  #7  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 201
Originally Posted by trouble747
A credit card customer is not acting as an "agent" for the card company.
Indeed. The proper example here would be the person at the cc company who is coming up with the cashback numbers. If that person happens to own a office supply store, they may choose to raise the cashback pct for OSSes, even though it may cost the CC company more.

We are not agents of cc companies.
unkinected is offline  
Old Aug 26, 2014 | 1:55 pm
  #8  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 3,688
afaik, the best customers for CCCs are those who leave a balance on their accounts thereby paying huge interest rates. OTOH, I pay all my balance each month, yet they still make $$ off charges I put on their card(s) via the purchase fees on VGCs I buy PLUS merchants fees they collect each time I swipe those CCs. They are betting that I will not be able to pay my balance in full and national stats reveal, there are more people who keep a balance than those who pay in full.

in this game, both parties take care of their own interests.
Mamibear is offline  
Old Aug 26, 2014 | 2:37 pm
  #9  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Land of the parrots and parrotheads
Programs: Several dozen
Posts: 4,820
Where in the factoring is the part about the bankers buying taxpayer goodwill by letting us taxpayers MS freely out of fear of being caught in a dark alley by an angry mob of taxpayers during the next financial crisis? I believe that is referred to as the "French Peasants are Revolting Problem."

Originally Posted by ragnarkar
Definition of Agency Problem:
As a client of a credit card company, you're expected, on average, to act in a way that is beneficial to the company's financial interests though not with

Source.
a sense of free will in the process. For example, you may rack up huge charges and maybe even receive a sign-in bonus. But the huge interest charges and an occasional late fee will quickly neutralize the sign-in bonus, resulting in profits to the bank in the average case.

An MSer doesn't play by these "unwritten" rules and charges the hell out of his cards, racks up hefty rewards, and "recycles" the money charged to pay back the loan, thereby repeating the process over and over again..

Principal-Agent Problem: Agent games the system and acts in its own best interests rather than Principal's

Reverse Agency Problem: Principal games the system an acts in its own best interests over Agent's.

Thoughts?
AlohaDaveKennedy is offline  
Old Aug 26, 2014 | 2:42 pm
  #10  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: New York
Posts: 391
Where is the agency relationship?

You keep using that word; I do not think it means what you think it means.

Last edited by smoothmunkey; Aug 26, 2014 at 3:13 pm
smoothmunkey is offline  
Old Aug 26, 2014 | 2:58 pm
  #11  
All eyes on you!
10 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Chyona
Programs: Anywhere I can ski...
Posts: 401
this thread has made my day lol thanks! OP
MasterCharge is offline  
Old Aug 26, 2014 | 9:51 pm
  #12  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Purgatory
Programs: Too many to list. Status is a half dozen.
Posts: 9,236
I am 12 and what is this?

ArizonaGuy is offline  
Old Aug 26, 2014 | 10:46 pm
  #13  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Fairfield County, CT USA
Programs: AA PLT+2MM / DL DM+1MM / A3 *G / Fairmont LT Plat / Ritz Gold / SPG Gold
Posts: 4,077
Who does CX dim sum remind you of?
NYBanker is offline  
Old Aug 27, 2014 | 12:51 am
  #14  
All eyes on you!
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: May 2008
Programs: AA PLT 2MM
Posts: 2,026
Originally Posted by ragnarkar
Definition of Agency Problem:



Source.

As a client of a credit card company, you're expected, on average, to act in a way that is beneficial to the company's financial interests though not with a sense of free will in the process. For example, you may rack up huge charges and maybe even receive a sign-in bonus. But the huge interest charges and an occasional late fee will quickly neutralize the sign-in bonus, resulting in profits to the bank in the average case.

An MSer doesn't play by these "unwritten" rules and charges the hell out of his cards, racks up hefty rewards, and "recycles" the money charged to pay back the loan, thereby repeating the process over and over again..

Principal-Agent Problem: Agent games the system and acts in its own best interests rather than Principal's

Reverse Agency Problem: Principal games the system an acts in its own best interests over Agent's.

Thoughts?
How is there an agency relationship between the 'Customer' and CC Company?

It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt of it.

-- Maurice Switzer
Source.
thehawk75 is offline  
Old Aug 27, 2014 | 8:56 am
  #15  
10 Countries Visited20 Countries Visited30 Countries Visited10 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,322
Keep your day gig, don't try to play lawyer.
tuphat is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.