commdiver

MM, is this you?

Marathon Man

Shhhhhhhh! Dont tell them, man!!

seat17D

I am not not going to give any details on which LEOs, which charges, which techniques, etc. It's trivially easy for a LEO to reopen a case, reseek warrants, etc. And I don't need to be an unintentional co-conspirator for anyone who decides to reverse engineer my experience ... and then run afoul of a LEO who clumsily casts a wide net.

Let it bear repeating, what I did was legal. What happened to me is what happened to someone who had not committed a crime.

What would I do differently? Frankly, I would have had better communications with my spouse ahead of time, about what I was doing, the applicable laws and the various risks and benefits. As it was, when LEO came to visit, some of their accusations were quite detailed and quite unexpected. So for a short period of time, my spouse doubted my innocence.

Fortunately, thanks to respected, knowledgeable friends and legal counsel, we had the discussions after the fact that restored our marriage.

commdiver

Did you at least offer the LEO some donuts?

Marathon Man

Id give him some dd gcs from the amex offers and then write him a ms song

MileageUpdate

That sounds so simliar to the other stories I'ev heard. Must have given you a good scare. Unfortunately we dont know what you were or werent doing. Did you mix in something into your standard MS gig? Or were you caught is some wide net fishing expedition. Again Id love to know what you would do differently that you feel would have eliminated the microscope that was used to investigate you.

msp2anywhere

First, to quote the venerable MrPickles, it's a scheme, not a scam...

MSing is, as seat17d appropriately stated, running with scissors. Each one of us is free to choose the size of the scissors and the pace at which to run.

Marathon Man

Well id like to know... What specifically was it the leo ultimately was investigating you for?

Given that was ultimately cleared up, what, was it that you ms?
That you ms to some threshold?
That you bought or sold a specific item on a no no list--whether you were aware of it or not?
That you also happen to surf Russian porn?
That you also may have downloaded music illegally and they were looking anyway?

I am curious, as others must be, what the ultimate trigger was. Otherwise any mser from a newbie buying and burning his first gc to someone like me who did $1mil spend on the typ in 3 months (and to people i know who triple that ammt), are all fd

Marathon Man

Maybe this whole thing is a set up. It def got the attention of many ms heavy hitters and so a mole was placed to get em all in one place lol

AnalystGuy

Well said.

AnalystGuy

If I had to guess I would say they were looking at a particular sector and then the volume stood out. Alternatively they were acting on a filing or complaint from one of the entities involved. And there was probably a random element as well, i.e., out of 5 people doing the same thing only ones gets charged.

Marathon Man

I think the whole thing is bullocs now until I hear more. All details. Which agency.

Its all too tacit. And yet I do not and cannot understand. If this happened to me i think the last place id come to talk about it is in here

I had believed it all in part but I cant because its so vague. To me when that happens that means something is being left out that we need to know else it shouldnt even be brought up.

(EDIT: I would talk about it in here when I was prepared to tell the ENTIRE story, not just some of it. And I would once I was mentally back to normal after such a horrific experience. I mean if I were in an accident and all shook up and couldnt respond to say, some PMs from people I know, do you think I would come to FT right away? no. I would be doing other priorities first. So it's weird to me this stuff is even in here if only partly finished. I think theres something missing. We dont have the whole story yet... this cat should tell the WHOLE story or dont even tell it at all. Why tease us like this unless he is trying to scare people away from MS? new and old users?

It's certainly got me thinkin... about how embarrassing it would be to have the feds come here--even if they left saying ok sorry.

Why cant this guy tell us the agency?

Maybe he feels we just cant see it from his standpoint. Then again before posting all that, he should have considered that he needs to see it from ours--mine at least. And in my mind I just cant get my head around why such a thing hasn't happened to all the heavy hitters yet or at all?...I mean, is a store doing or not doing a report on me that they do to these guys? Or is it all bull? And is this guy also into something else we don't know about? Has he crossed a line you and I would never even think to cross? I mean hey it's one thing to download a movie from a torrent site or grab some liberated GC stock from a CVS or something to use later, but far worse to say, use the same technology real CC scammers use to make a new GC that looks more like a debit card so that when clerks ask to see it they can be ok with it. I think if we skimmed (or whatever its called) to innocently do that, we would actually be crossing a line, right? And if so, maybe that is what tipped the scales here. Some could even argue that using an embosser is close to crossing that line. Not sure. But we dunno. he wont tell us! Why not? That's why I currently think it's not 100% kosher. Not yet)

)

annhedonia

While you're waiting for the rest of the story, read about what happens in No. CA. Seize, confiscate, ask questions later (yes it's dope and not MS but everyone is on alert.) Almost every store is shut down for CC GC purchase and most for MO with CC. I shudder to think what would happen if one got caught with an embosser let alone a MO :-)

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article...cles/140629577

Marathon Man

Whats going on in no ca is un american

seat17D

A bit of non-attorney insight on how the legal system works ...

The way it was explained to me ... unless and until formal charges are filed and the case has proceeded to the discovery phase, LEOs are not obligated to tell you what/who/why/where/when/how you came to their attention or were deemed worthy of active investigation.

So they don't tell you anything.

They ask questions and expect answers. And then they ask more questions, and expect more answers.

At some point they stop asking you questions. They don't have to explain why they stopped asking questions. So they don't.

In a post 9/11 world, they don't need to tell you that you are cleared. So they don't.

So I don't know what/who/why/where/when/how I came to their attention or was deemed worthy of active investigation.

I don't know if the LEO that contacted my family was the originator, the sole agency or just the agency that won the jurisdictional coin toss.

I don't know if I was the sole focal point of a special investigation or whether I was just bycatch from some other fishing expedition.

And they never told me I was cleared. And absolutely no one ever said they were sorry. All I know is one day I went online and my assets were no longer frozen.

Since it did not go to trial, it's never actually over.

I will say a few things that are more my opinion than absolute fact.

First, much of MS might seem very simple and straightforward to all of us. But think back to the first time you tried to explain it to your spouse. It's simple to us only because we swim in it, some of us for a decade or more. So when LEOs get involved their first thoughts are drugs or terrorism. Because that's their bias. And while you might not appear to be a drug lord or global terrorist, criminal front men look innocent, too.

LEOs also don't have CPAs, or MBAs or experience in ACH or the rest of the MS TLAs. So they can and do get confused. And in a post 9/11 world, AML is a space where it seems you are guilty until proven innocent. If that means innocent people get hassled, they get hassled. Such is the price of the war on terror.

There are elements of inanity and randomness similar to what happens with TSA at the airport. Except the TSA doesn't make house calls. That I know of.

I did not break any law, MS-related or otherwise.

Finally, there seems to be a code of silence amongst MSers who have received similar legal attention. I am hardly the only one who has won the LEO lottery. Seems I am the only one who has broken that code of silence. For some reason that is surprising to me.

Perhaps some of the others will be more willing to share their details.