Mar 28, 2014, 10:58 am
Last edit by: MasterCharge
Welcome to Manufactured Spending. If you are new here, please spend some time reading before posting. Most likely your questions have already been answered multiple times. Consider deals that you share. These threads are searchable by Google. A volatile deal may be worth holding close to the vest.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. Example: This thread... I know, the first few posts are confusing.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is "legal."
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
a helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS:
Take what you read with a grain of salt. No law enforcement agency cares if you are loading 5k to a bluebird per month unless you are loading your money from illegal activities like crack sales. Even at that point they only care about your crack sales, not your bluebird load.
Nobody is going to ask you "why are you loading your bluebird" or "where did you get the money you want to load on your bluebird" when you go to walmart.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. Example: This thread... I know, the first few posts are confusing.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is "legal."
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
a helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS:
I will speak to only the impacts and actions that have been taken (or threatened) to me personally over the years
1. Account closure - always got my money back. Moderate frequency. Little to no long-term impact UNLESS my wife was the first one to find out when her card was declined in public setting
2. Blacklisted by an FI - lower frequency. Short- to medium term impact. Eventually the FI's greed heals all wounds.
3. Blacklisted by a governmental agency -- lower frequency. Variable long-term impact as governmental agencies never actually forget, they just don't take action (see below)
4. Banned from a retail establishment -- threatened, but never actually banned. Mostly just pointed discussion from a misguided manager. Low-medium frequency.
5. Banned from an online establishment -- lower frequency, generally lower impact. Generally permanent, at least for me so far.
6. Cashback forfeited or clawed back -- generally happened to me as part of a credit card shut down. so far only forfeits and not clawbacks, but they are possible
And then there are the things law enforcement can and has done
1. Executed a warrant to subpoena my banking and other financial records without my knowledge
2. Contacted my FIs to inquire as the nature of my financial relationship
3. Frozen the portion of my assets that were currently involved in the activity they were investigating
4. Visited my home -- when I was not there -- to "interview" my spouse, etc. regarding their knowledge and involvement ... and to attempt to obtain additional documentation not already obtained by the subpoenas
5. Threatened to seize my assets. Not just the ones frozen. Not just those I currently possessed. But all assets they deemed as ever having been part of the criminal activity. (Think every GC, MO, etc. you have purchased over the past 3-5 years)
6. Threatened one or more felony charges. (Consider having to explain THAT to your wife or boss.)
And that all was for something that was completely legal, once the 'splaining was done.
Of course once LEO opens a criminal investigation, it never actually closes unless they take you to court and fail. So even though I was cleared of the charges, the original case file is out there ready to be dusted off.
In the end, my biggest concern is the extent to which something will permanently impact my marriage or ability to enter into financial contracts (felony charges would be one example). Fortunately once the initial shock of LEO's investigation wore away, both my marriage and financial relationships were intact. Very thankful both she and a few key FI's stood by me.
When you MS, you are running with scissors.
1. Account closure - always got my money back. Moderate frequency. Little to no long-term impact UNLESS my wife was the first one to find out when her card was declined in public setting
2. Blacklisted by an FI - lower frequency. Short- to medium term impact. Eventually the FI's greed heals all wounds.
3. Blacklisted by a governmental agency -- lower frequency. Variable long-term impact as governmental agencies never actually forget, they just don't take action (see below)
4. Banned from a retail establishment -- threatened, but never actually banned. Mostly just pointed discussion from a misguided manager. Low-medium frequency.
5. Banned from an online establishment -- lower frequency, generally lower impact. Generally permanent, at least for me so far.
6. Cashback forfeited or clawed back -- generally happened to me as part of a credit card shut down. so far only forfeits and not clawbacks, but they are possible
And then there are the things law enforcement can and has done
1. Executed a warrant to subpoena my banking and other financial records without my knowledge
2. Contacted my FIs to inquire as the nature of my financial relationship
3. Frozen the portion of my assets that were currently involved in the activity they were investigating
4. Visited my home -- when I was not there -- to "interview" my spouse, etc. regarding their knowledge and involvement ... and to attempt to obtain additional documentation not already obtained by the subpoenas
5. Threatened to seize my assets. Not just the ones frozen. Not just those I currently possessed. But all assets they deemed as ever having been part of the criminal activity. (Think every GC, MO, etc. you have purchased over the past 3-5 years)
6. Threatened one or more felony charges. (Consider having to explain THAT to your wife or boss.)
And that all was for something that was completely legal, once the 'splaining was done.
Of course once LEO opens a criminal investigation, it never actually closes unless they take you to court and fail. So even though I was cleared of the charges, the original case file is out there ready to be dusted off.
In the end, my biggest concern is the extent to which something will permanently impact my marriage or ability to enter into financial contracts (felony charges would be one example). Fortunately once the initial shock of LEO's investigation wore away, both my marriage and financial relationships were intact. Very thankful both she and a few key FI's stood by me.
When you MS, you are running with scissors.
Nobody is going to ask you "why are you loading your bluebird" or "where did you get the money you want to load on your bluebird" when you go to walmart.
New to Manufactured Spending? Start Here.
Mar 3, 2014, 3:47 am
#286
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 526
I just want to give everyone a heads up that there are tampered with Vanilla Reload cards out there. There is a separate FT thread on this, but it had made it seem this was isolated to the Atlanta area. Not anymore...
I bought 4 VR cards yesterday in California. Three were fine, but after scratching off the cover on the last one, the numbers were totally unreadable. Not from scratching too hard, etc. someone had deliberately obscured the numbers.
I managed to get thru to a VR CSR, but doing so is a real pain. They want you to sign in with the pin on your card, which you can't do because the pin is unreadable. You have to figure out on your own how to get thru to them.
You have to sign in with the pin from a used VR card with numbers you can read, and then ask for a rep, who will eventually load the money onto your BB for you.
My advice when buying VR cards is to take them to the counter, so no one thinks YOU are tampering with them, then scratch off the cover and make sure all of the numbers are legible, before paying for them.
I bought 4 VR cards yesterday in California. Three were fine, but after scratching off the cover on the last one, the numbers were totally unreadable. Not from scratching too hard, etc. someone had deliberately obscured the numbers.
I managed to get thru to a VR CSR, but doing so is a real pain. They want you to sign in with the pin on your card, which you can't do because the pin is unreadable. You have to figure out on your own how to get thru to them.
You have to sign in with the pin from a used VR card with numbers you can read, and then ask for a rep, who will eventually load the money onto your BB for you.
My advice when buying VR cards is to take them to the counter, so no one thinks YOU are tampering with them, then scratch off the cover and make sure all of the numbers are legible, before paying for them.
Mar 3, 2014, 9:16 am
#287
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 2
Newbie: Tell me what I need to know
So I'm new to the MS game. Anyone here have any tips/tricks aside from the obvious? Of note, I'm more interested in cash than miles since I don't travel a ton (kids).
I just signed up for a Saphirre Preferred, Hyatt (2 free nights), and Barclays. I'm using beans at my local CVS's (lucky enough to have 3 that are well-stocked within a few miles of my house) to meet the minimum spends. I'll go after the Chase Southwest cards in a few weeks. Anything else I should know?
Oh, and I know AmEx does the 6% back on groceries. There is a Kroger nearby. Is there a way I can manufacture that spending so that I don't have to spend any actual money there.
I just signed up for a Saphirre Preferred, Hyatt (2 free nights), and Barclays. I'm using beans at my local CVS's (lucky enough to have 3 that are well-stocked within a few miles of my house) to meet the minimum spends. I'll go after the Chase Southwest cards in a few weeks. Anything else I should know?
Oh, and I know AmEx does the 6% back on groceries. There is a Kroger nearby. Is there a way I can manufacture that spending so that I don't have to spend any actual money there.
Mar 3, 2014, 9:17 am
#288
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: BWI, EWR, JFK
Posts: 49
spend a week reading the threads, then ask questions- I'm fairly new to the MS but it took me about a week to go through all the posts
Mar 3, 2014, 9:24 am
#289
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,509
So I'm new to the MS game. Anyone here have any tips/tricks aside from the obvious? Of note, I'm more interested in cash than miles since I don't travel a ton (kids).
I just signed up for a Saphirre Preferred, Hyatt (2 free nights), and Barclays. I'm using beans at my local CVS's (lucky enough to have 3 that are well-stocked within a few miles of my house) to meet the minimum spends. I'll go after the Chase Southwest cards in a few weeks. Anything else I should know?
Oh, and I know AmEx does the 6% back on groceries. There is a Kroger nearby. Is there a way I can manufacture that spending so that I don't have to spend any actual money there.
I just signed up for a Saphirre Preferred, Hyatt (2 free nights), and Barclays. I'm using beans at my local CVS's (lucky enough to have 3 that are well-stocked within a few miles of my house) to meet the minimum spends. I'll go after the Chase Southwest cards in a few weeks. Anything else I should know?
Oh, and I know AmEx does the 6% back on groceries. There is a Kroger nearby. Is there a way I can manufacture that spending so that I don't have to spend any actual money there.
Mar 3, 2014, 9:27 am
#290
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Down South, The Desert
Programs: Marriot Rewards, Southwest Rapid rewards, Emerald Club, Avis Preferred
Posts: 1,871
What they said. I learned by reading. I asked some dumb questions, but learned the lay of the land.
Don't call the banks or issuers. Don't raise a ruckus at a store. That's the only advice I can give if you don't want to read these threads.
Don't call the banks or issuers. Don't raise a ruckus at a store. That's the only advice I can give if you don't want to read these threads.
Mar 3, 2014, 9:32 am
#291
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 27
So I'm new to the MS game. Anyone here have any tips/tricks aside from the obvious? Of note, I'm more interested in cash than miles since I don't travel a ton (kids).
I just signed up for a Saphirre Preferred, Hyatt (2 free nights), and Barclays. I'm using beans at my local CVS's (lucky enough to have 3 that are well-stocked within a few miles of my house) to meet the minimum spends. I'll go after the Chase Southwest cards in a few weeks. Anything else I should know?
Oh, and I know AmEx does the 6% back on groceries. There is a Kroger nearby. Is there a way I can manufacture that spending so that I don't have to spend any actual money there.
I just signed up for a Saphirre Preferred, Hyatt (2 free nights), and Barclays. I'm using beans at my local CVS's (lucky enough to have 3 that are well-stocked within a few miles of my house) to meet the minimum spends. I'll go after the Chase Southwest cards in a few weeks. Anything else I should know?
Oh, and I know AmEx does the 6% back on groceries. There is a Kroger nearby. Is there a way I can manufacture that spending so that I don't have to spend any actual money there.
Mar 3, 2014, 9:46 am
#292
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Long Beach
Programs: HHonors Diamond, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 1,171
So I'm new to the MS game. Anyone here have any tips/tricks aside from the obvious? Of note, I'm more interested in cash than miles since I don't travel a ton (kids).
I just signed up for a Saphirre Preferred, Hyatt (2 free nights), and Barclays. I'm using beans at my local CVS's (lucky enough to have 3 that are well-stocked within a few miles of my house) to meet the minimum spends. I'll go after the Chase Southwest cards in a few weeks. Anything else I should know?
Oh, and I know AmEx does the 6% back on groceries. There is a Kroger nearby. Is there a way I can manufacture that spending so that I don't have to spend any actual money there.
I just signed up for a Saphirre Preferred, Hyatt (2 free nights), and Barclays. I'm using beans at my local CVS's (lucky enough to have 3 that are well-stocked within a few miles of my house) to meet the minimum spends. I'll go after the Chase Southwest cards in a few weeks. Anything else I should know?
Oh, and I know AmEx does the 6% back on groceries. There is a Kroger nearby. Is there a way I can manufacture that spending so that I don't have to spend any actual money there.
Mar 3, 2014, 11:20 am
#293
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 647
NO!! Educate yourself or don't get into the game. Go to the different threads for BB, VRs, Paypal, etc and read the wikis to get an idea and ask questions there to learn more about how each method works. Don't expect to get all your information on a silver platter and be spoonfed because these threads appear everyday and it clutters the forums. If folks can't take the time to educate themselves on FT on how it works, then I can't imagine these same folks executing on the plan because it does take time, effort and patience especially when you get denied at stores that only accept cash only.
I love flyer talk forum but most of the wiki's here are not completed and crushed with 100 people asking the same question and are not wasy to follow. Look at a post about BB from Million miler forum - VERY DETAILED and complete and look at the one here.. huge difference..
Mar 3, 2014, 11:34 am
#294
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: IND
Posts: 23
Make sure your credit cards align with your goals. Hyatt and Southwest won't help you with cash back. Fidelity Amex, BCE/BCP, Chase Freedom, Sallie Mae, Discover It, etc will priobably be of more use to you.
Mar 3, 2014, 11:39 am
#295
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,509
I agree with and disagree..
I love flyer talk forum but most of the wiki's here are not completed and crushed with 100 people asking the same question and are not wasy to follow. Look at a post about BB from Million miler forum - VERY DETAILED and complete and look at the one here.. huge difference..
I love flyer talk forum but most of the wiki's here are not completed and crushed with 100 people asking the same question and are not wasy to follow. Look at a post about BB from Million miler forum - VERY DETAILED and complete and look at the one here.. huge difference..
I disagree that FT has to provide the same level of detail as MillionMiles. There are a ton of frequent mile blogs out there and they have to do what they can to attract viewers on their sites. Having that much details is not a good thing if you think about it. You want to be somewhat cryptic and not have circles and arrows and a ton of pictures explaining step by step on how to do things. There are plenty of other sites that do the job and FT doesn't have to do the same.
Last edited by ericdabbs; Mar 3, 2014 at 11:44 am
Mar 3, 2014, 12:02 pm
#296
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: South NJ
Posts: 263
So I'm new to the MS game. Anyone here have any tips/tricks aside from the obvious? Of note, I'm more interested in cash than miles since I don't travel a ton (kids).
I just signed up for a Saphirre Preferred, Hyatt (2 free nights), and Barclays. I'm using beans at my local CVS's (lucky enough to have 3 that are well-stocked within a few miles of my house) to meet the minimum spends. I'll go after the Chase Southwest cards in a few weeks. Anything else I should know?
Oh, and I know AmEx does the 6% back on groceries. There is a Kroger nearby. Is there a way I can manufacture that spending so that I don't have to spend any actual money there.
I just signed up for a Saphirre Preferred, Hyatt (2 free nights), and Barclays. I'm using beans at my local CVS's (lucky enough to have 3 that are well-stocked within a few miles of my house) to meet the minimum spends. I'll go after the Chase Southwest cards in a few weeks. Anything else I should know?
Oh, and I know AmEx does the 6% back on groceries. There is a Kroger nearby. Is there a way I can manufacture that spending so that I don't have to spend any actual money there.
Mar 3, 2014, 12:11 pm
#297
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: CHS
Programs: United 1K, Globalist Hyatt, Plat Marriott
Posts: 289
Find any member who has greater than 500 points and continue to send them PMs until they answer and give you advice.
Mar 3, 2014, 12:13 pm
#298
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: LAX
Programs: AA, TY, UR, UA, US, WN, MR, SPG
Posts: 1,453
Man, even a better-worded post might have got you some help, but seriously, put in some effort. You could read for ONE HOUR and find out the majority of the basics. Then post a specific question or two if you have them. At least some people here (myself included) are inclined to help newbies, as long as it isn't this "spoon-feed me how to get everything I want because I'm entitled and don't want to learn myself" mentality.
Mar 5, 2014, 7:47 pm
#299
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 22
Just my 2-cents.
Mar 5, 2014, 8:32 pm
#300
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: San Antonio
Programs: AS MVP
Posts: 2,276
I know most of you guys prefer miles/points... Not really a shocker given the nature of this forum. However, just as a data point, I figured mention that I exclusively MS for cashback. I do it for the same reasons as yourself, to earn a nice vacation for me and the family, but with a large family the idea of flying scares the crud out of me. Also, not sure what hotels we'd like to stay at, so that rules out the Hilton cards, etc.
Just my 2-cents.
Just my 2-cents.
