TheBOSman

And I'd probably put that ahead of any other thing that has happened. These are minor losses, MQDs are a seismic shift.

kunk00

Now I believe you are serious. And I understand why hong kong residence hate that.

hobo13

Agree 100%. However, the churners, Reloaders, and most bloggers., don't care about status, so it doesn't even make their Top 10 list!

I go so far as to say that I'd prefer they completely got rid of mile earning with credit cards (ALL of it) if it meant they would leave actual FF programs exactly the way they are. Mileage running so SO much more fun than signing up for credit cards or shopping at OD! <flame on>

TheBOSman

In my mind, it is more related to establishing a clear precedent relating the mileage/elite program more directly to a fixed-value component. And in fact, the outside (non-flight) spend option in the new program only points to INCREASED credit card pushing by the airlines and increased mileage sales to the CC companies. Not only are CCs not going anywhere, they are only getting stronger.

amolkold

Then again, for someone like me who churns spend on the DL Amex to earn CC MQMs, the changes are actually positive, since I won't be subject to the MQD requirement and will have fewer elites around me competing for upgrades/EC seats.

TheBOSman

Yes but you are giving up 25k points in a more valuable program for 25k SkyMiles. At a bare minimum, you give up 5k SkyMiles versus spending that $25k on an SPG card.

hobo13

It's easy to say 'this doesn't affect me today.' But face it, if you aren't one of DL's best customers (and if you are churning on your DL Amex, you probably aren't), they will eventually draw the boundaries of the program to exclude you. It's just a matter of time.

It's sort of like me saying the DL scheme doesn't affect me cause I only fly UA.... although true today, if it's successful for DL, we know that Jeffy Jeff will want to implement it soon enough.

And just wait till they 'enhance' the redemption side such that now you get a flat rebate on your flights. Then come tell us how it doesn't affect you.....

HikerT

Huh? For those of us who generate MQMs from manufactured spend it's a non issue. If anything the 25K CC waiver is the best news of the year. Seismic shift? Hardly.

hobo13

Check in with us next year when that waiver goes to $50k. And then $100k. And then $200k.

Look, they if don't want YOU in their program, sooner or later they'll figure out how to get you out of it.

TheBOSman

Read my other response. Would you manufacture spend on a WN card as a general rule? It would probably still save money, but it is impossible to generate outsized redemptions from WN points (even if somehow they could be booked for F). The introduction of a clear revenue component for all levels of the frequent flyer program is not the only step in this process.

HikerT

Not really. All depends on what DL branded card you use. DL Reserve is a fantastic card for manufactured spend. 60K spend = 30K MQMs + 90K RDMs. That's easily worth $1800. Deduct the annual fee from that value and you're still getting $1300 of value, ignoring any value for upgrade priority, lounge access, FC companion ticket, etc. I'll take that any day over 60K SPG.

HikerT

I'll be here. Well, maybe not if the collective IQ level of this place continues to drop.

TheBOSman

But then the elite status isn't worth as much if you are generating that level of spend, because you are not flying as much. It will depend on how much you fly and use the status, rather than simply having it. Also, I'm assuming that someone who hasn't done this before will spend up to that $25k mark, simply to hold their status. You're jumping up a bit higher. We are both right for the levels we've chosen, if I were to do it myself I wouldn't stop at $25k either and would go to $60k as you mention, then it is clearly in favor of the DL card, but that hasn't changed from before MQDs, now there is simply an additional benefit to it. FT as a whole has a very distorted view of how many low fare elites there are, we number under 2000 at best in my opinion across all of the North American airlines, but it happens that a majority of them are members here (with many of them very active members). Mileage running appeals to only a few people, and as I'm in the middle of one and won't sleep for about 21 hours straight during my weekend time off from work, I can see why it doesn't appeal to many.

amolkold

I'm already spending on the DL Amex for MQMs, since I value the incremental status benefits that I get. I fly enough to achieve close to Gold, and being able to spend rather than go on an MR is a policy I like. In fact, because of Amex, I can enjoy PM benefits on a GM's level of flying, which is still quite a bit. And for $25K spend, I'm getting 35K Skymiles + 10K MQMs. For $30K spend on the Reserve, I'm getting 45K Skymiles + 15K MQMs, so they are better cards than the SPG Amex if your goal is Skymiles.

My policy is to never earn Skymiles RDMs unless I'm also earning MQMs. That limits me to actual flying + Delta Amex CC spend.

And once that time comes, it'll affect me. But right now, it's a positive change for me, so I'm sticking with DL. If we always lived for loyalty programs way out in the future, no deal would be a good deal unless you are burning in super real time (which I bet many of us are not). Look at what those who had lifetime status on UA are now going through -- Premier Gold is no longer the 2nd tier but the 3rd. When AA merges with US, Plat will no longer be the 2nd tier, it'll be the 3rd behind the 75K level.

If you think that other legacies won't copy DL, then you're wrong. DL is in a position to make these changes because they're running a decent operation with loyal travelers. They're not losing high-value elites like UA/CO nor are they going through bankruptcy/possible merger like AA/US. Skypesos are Skypesos, but I still redeem them well, and I enjoy flying Delta even in Economy Comfort, something that couldn't have been said for my 5 flights on United in Global and Domestic First last year (even if 2 were on the 787).

Besides, Delta/Amex seem to like me. Hell, they even invited me out to a Lakers game to hang out with James Worthy, Kurt Rambis, and the 2010 NBA Finals trophy, just for being an Amex Delta spender. They don't care for my flying, they care for my Amex spending.

Likewise.

hobo13

Did you actually READ my post?