Nov 10, 2013, 11:26 am
Last edit by: mcdullhk88
Dead as of 10/13/14
FAQ's
Is Amazon Payments treated as a cash advance? No CC issuer has been reported as treating an AP transaction as a cash advance unless the sender selected "Payment is for Cash Advance" on the Send Money screen.
What does it mean when your payment is "pending"? Your payment will be reviewed. We are unsure whether this review is done by a human or computer. It should take less than 24 hours but is usually within minutes.
How should you describe your payment? "Goods or services" will allow you to charge with a CC and it will not be treated as a cash advance. Note: If you choose cash advance, it may be treated as such by your CC issuer; always choose Goods/Services. There is no reason to put anything in the optional description field - leave it blank.
What is the monthly limit for sending CC payments? $1,000 per calendar month per AP account
What is the monthly limit for receiving CC payments? $1,000 per calendar month per AP account
What if it is not allowing me to send/receive more than $500 or any at all? You probably have not verified your bank and/or added a CC. In order to get the full $1,000 allowance for sending and receiving you must have a bank verified AND a CC added to your account as a payment method.
Does AP qualify for special spending categories? Specifically it qualifies for Discover's (usually 4th quarter) category of online purchases but so far, not Chase's "5% CB on Amazon.com purchases." Refer to thread for other options.
Can you get shutdown? Yes.
How do you get shutdown? No one knows. Anecdotes are found throughout the thread. Some suspicious behavior that MIGHT get your AP account(s) shut down is listed below.
Which transaction is most advisable? A -> B -> C -> A (see here)
Are any fees charged during this process? No, not by Amazon Payments. If your transaction is treated as a cash advance by your card issuer--fees are possible. Beware and always double check that goods/services is selected!
Can you liquidate Amazon GC via AP? NO!
Can you liquidate other gift cards via AP? Yes. Note that you cannot liquidate the full value of a GC because amazon places a $1 hold while it verifies the validity of the GC. You can sometimes (not always) avoid the hold by entering an incorrect expiration date for the GC when adding it to your AP account, and after you have added it, go to "Edit my account settings," then to "Add edit or delete my credit cards" and edit the expiration date there.
When does the month end? It appears as if Amazon is on pacific time, so midnight PDT/PST is when the month resets.
It bears repeating that no one knows the methodology amazon uses to police AP transactions, determines which transactions violate its T&Cs, or identifies violators. However, various people in this thread and elsewhere have confirmed that their AP account(s) were shut down for the following reasons:
Additionally, we have updated the terms and conditions of our User Agreement (https://payments.amazon.com/help/Personal-Accounts/User-Agreement-Policies/User-Agreement) that apply to your use of the products and services provided by Amazon Payments. Our updated User Agreement revises certain terms (including, among other things, the elimination of person-to-person payments). Our new User Agreement will become effective on October 13, 2014, which is more than 30 days from when we first posted our updated User Agreement. By continuing to use our services after October 13, 2014, you are agreeing to be bound by the terms and conditions of our new User Agreement.
Is Amazon Payments treated as a cash advance? No CC issuer has been reported as treating an AP transaction as a cash advance unless the sender selected "Payment is for Cash Advance" on the Send Money screen.
What does it mean when your payment is "pending"? Your payment will be reviewed. We are unsure whether this review is done by a human or computer. It should take less than 24 hours but is usually within minutes.
How should you describe your payment? "Goods or services" will allow you to charge with a CC and it will not be treated as a cash advance. Note: If you choose cash advance, it may be treated as such by your CC issuer; always choose Goods/Services. There is no reason to put anything in the optional description field - leave it blank.
What is the monthly limit for sending CC payments? $1,000 per calendar month per AP account
What is the monthly limit for receiving CC payments? $1,000 per calendar month per AP account
What if it is not allowing me to send/receive more than $500 or any at all? You probably have not verified your bank and/or added a CC. In order to get the full $1,000 allowance for sending and receiving you must have a bank verified AND a CC added to your account as a payment method.
Does AP qualify for special spending categories? Specifically it qualifies for Discover's (usually 4th quarter) category of online purchases but so far, not Chase's "5% CB on Amazon.com purchases." Refer to thread for other options.
Can you get shutdown? Yes.
How do you get shutdown? No one knows. Anecdotes are found throughout the thread. Some suspicious behavior that MIGHT get your AP account(s) shut down is listed below.
Which transaction is most advisable? A -> B -> C -> A (see here)
Are any fees charged during this process? No, not by Amazon Payments. If your transaction is treated as a cash advance by your card issuer--fees are possible. Beware and always double check that goods/services is selected!
Can you liquidate Amazon GC via AP? NO!
Can you liquidate other gift cards via AP? Yes. Note that you cannot liquidate the full value of a GC because amazon places a $1 hold while it verifies the validity of the GC. You can sometimes (not always) avoid the hold by entering an incorrect expiration date for the GC when adding it to your AP account, and after you have added it, go to "Edit my account settings," then to "Add edit or delete my credit cards" and edit the expiration date there.
When does the month end? It appears as if Amazon is on pacific time, so midnight PDT/PST is when the month resets.
It bears repeating that no one knows the methodology amazon uses to police AP transactions, determines which transactions violate its T&Cs, or identifies violators. However, various people in this thread and elsewhere have confirmed that their AP account(s) were shut down for the following reasons:
- Associating one credit card number with more than one AP account (Be Careful if authorized user card has the same number as the primary card holder - in some instances the CC numbers are completely different)
- Associating one bank account with more than one AP account
Amazon Payments
Dec 23, 2012 | 10:43 pm
#1112
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 323
I don't know anything about Amazon payments, but if the friend receives the full amount, then I guess Amazon is eating the fee. Paypal used to do this for personal payments--but I believe they no longer do (now they charge either sender or receiver). And they've always charged those fees to business accounts
Dec 24, 2012 | 2:27 am
#1114
Moderator: Manufactured Spending
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,708
I don't see anything illegal about it. It's basically like telling a friend "hey, I'll send you $1000 on Amazon payments. Tomorrow, you send it back to me on Amazon payments and we'll both keep the miles."
There are always tax issues when you create a company. Any profits that the company returns to owners/shareholders may be subject to corporate tax and income tax. This sounds like a lot of hassle to get some miles.
There are always tax issues when you create a company. Any profits that the company returns to owners/shareholders may be subject to corporate tax and income tax. This sounds like a lot of hassle to get some miles.
Dec 24, 2012 | 9:18 am
#1115
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 312
I don't see anything illegal about it. It's basically like telling a friend "hey, I'll send you $1000 on Amazon payments. Tomorrow, you send it back to me on Amazon payments and we'll both keep the miles."
There are always tax issues when you create a company. Any profits that the company returns to owners/shareholders may be subject to corporate tax and income tax. This sounds like a lot of hassle to get some miles.
There are always tax issues when you create a company. Any profits that the company returns to owners/shareholders may be subject to corporate tax and income tax. This sounds like a lot of hassle to get some miles.
Dec 24, 2012 | 10:42 am
#1116
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Asia Pac
Programs: AA UA DL AS CXDM JL NH Hilton Hyatt Marriott SPG IHG
Posts: 545
Dec 24, 2012 | 11:20 am
#1117
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: LAX
Posts: 670
Are you aware of the limits with Amazon payments?
This scheme is unnecessarily complicated. You can easily max out Amazon spend without setting a shell company.
And if you are truly concerned about legality, FT is not the best source for legal advice.
This scheme is unnecessarily complicated. You can easily max out Amazon spend without setting a shell company.
And if you are truly concerned about legality, FT is not the best source for legal advice.
Dec 24, 2012 | 1:48 pm
#1119
Flyertalk Posting Legend Moderator: Credit Card Programs, American Express, Capital One, Chase, Citi, Diners Club, Eco Travel, Signatures
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA, IHG & Marriott Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 51,883
Moderator action
philosopherking's idea has been merged into the existing Amazon Payments thread.
Dec 24, 2012 | 3:46 pm
#1121
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Fort Myers, FL
Programs: Hilton Gold, SPG & IHG Plat, & every airline program that I can join
Posts: 2,279
Another company ad today in Bloomberg for Alliedwallet. No mention on the site about limits, no CC fees, just $2 fee to withdraw to bank account. Tried to write them, capture thingy was unreadable on safari.
JudyJFLA
JudyJFLA
Dec 24, 2012 | 4:58 pm
#1122
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 39
Dec 24, 2012 | 8:05 pm
#1123
Join Date: Dec 2012
Programs: Hyatt Globalist; Hilton Diamond; Delta Gold; Alaska MVP Gold
Posts: 343
Does the following raise a red flag?
Two accounts A and B under my and my friend's name & SSN.
A linked to MY checking account 1.
B linked to MY checking account 2.
A sends money to B with Citi/Chase CCs.
The part that I am worried about is both checking accounts are under mine. Is it safe? Or should I use someone else's checking?
Two accounts A and B under my and my friend's name & SSN.
A linked to MY checking account 1.
B linked to MY checking account 2.
A sends money to B with Citi/Chase CCs.
The part that I am worried about is both checking accounts are under mine. Is it safe? Or should I use someone else's checking?
Dec 24, 2012 | 8:19 pm
#1124
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 124
Does the following raise a red flag?
Two accounts A and B under my and my friend's name & SSN.
A linked to MY checking account 1.
B linked to MY checking account 2.
A sends money to B with Citi/Chase CCs.
The part that I am worried about is both checking accounts are under mine. Is it safe? Or should I use someone else's checking?
Two accounts A and B under my and my friend's name & SSN.
A linked to MY checking account 1.
B linked to MY checking account 2.
A sends money to B with Citi/Chase CCs.
The part that I am worried about is both checking accounts are under mine. Is it safe? Or should I use someone else's checking?
Dec 24, 2012 | 8:42 pm
#1125
Join Date: Dec 2012
Programs: Hyatt Globalist; Hilton Diamond; Delta Gold; Alaska MVP Gold
Posts: 343
Is it alright to have two accounts under my name, say A1 and A2, and one account under my friend's name, say B, and do:
A1 -> B -> A2 ?