NYBanker

Many regulars to this forum will know (and share!) my views on the Plaza hotel in New York - that this must be one of the worst purported high-end hotels out there.

My feelings towards the hotel are driven both by the physical facilities (old, tired) as well as the general lack of service from the staff at the hotel.

I've got to vent on this one... I'm a capitalist through and through, and this one just gets me.

There are now plans in the works to close the existing hotel, convert a large portion to condos, and reopen a new, much smaller "Plaza Hotel" in part of the building. Owners making an economic decision. Plain and simple. Probably a good one, too.

All of the hotel workers will lose their jobs, at least temporarily. Many of the workers at the hotel - and others regularly in the press - have decided that this is the injustice of the century - and have undertaken a major radio campaign to "save the Plaza" - citing how hundreds will lose their job as a result of the closure. Many people saying they planned on working for x more years, then retiring, etc.

Here's a Link to a story in Newsday about a recent rally at the hotel.

While I never like to see anyone lose their job, this whole "save the Plaza" campaign really irks me. This is a purely economic decision on the part of the owners. Owners of hotels don't owe duties of lifetime employment to their crew. Employment is at will in New York. While I don't condone abusive employment practices, no employer (at least in New York) has a duty to be charitable to their employees. In fact, I'd say the Plaza ownership has gone above the call of duty by offering plenty of notice of the pending action to the staff as well as providing placement assistance. I'm sure plently of employees have played the other side of the coin, too, and quit without notice - leaving management and their ex-coworkers in a big jam.

Further, if the hotel, as is, was so important/popular, it would be throwing off cash left and right to its investors, who wouldn't want to do a conversion. Perhaps if the workers offered better service to their guests, the owners would have had different economic facts to consider.

Even further, those politicians who are opposed to this are forgetful of all of the construction jobs that will be created in the city for this project...and the new jobs that the new properties (condos and hotel) will create.

Further, it will be a modest windfall to the city and state - when the new condo purchasers take out mortgages, they'll have to pay the NYS/NYC mortgage tax - which will put millions into the city's coffers.

For those of you not from NY, no other state has such a tax, but in NY, there's a tax of 1% of the face amount of a mortgage simply for the pleasure of recording your mortgage, and in NYC, it's 2%. This is in addition to the 10% mansion tax on homes over $1mm. (The mansion tax won't apply to the Plaza, as that tax doesn't apply to condos.) As a result of these taxes, closing costs in NY are much higher than any other state, even nearby CT and NJ. In the case of the Plaza, this transaction will throw off a lot of revenue to the state and city.

This is a hotel that most of us agree is well past its prime. Perhaps the newly restored smaller Plaza will once again be one of the finest hotels in New York - we'd all welcome that.

Blumie

This is just a desparate measure taken by people who, unfortunately, will lose their jobs as a result of the closing of The Plaza. But for those of us who have had the misfortune of staying at The Plaza over the last 10 years, this is long overdue.

DrivingRain

I was at the Plaza the day of the rally for a JP Morgan conference and the employees spent less time serving the guests and more time watching the protest.

If they really wanted to have a "Save the Plaza" rally , it is about 20 years overdue.

Ericka

Hasn't it occurred to any of these people that "saving the plaza" may well be in this newer, smaller version of the hotel? Imagine how lovely (and exclusive) it could be if they put some effort into it. They could use some of the original Plaza furnishings and artifacts that are in the best shape - all in the context of a complete remodel/new hotel. I love the idea! When will it open?

luxury

It is a shame to see so much history disappear and I hope the new Plaza will re-create some of the old premium suites, such as the Frank Lloyd Wright, Astor and Vanderbilt suites, into the new hotel. But most importantly I hope whoever takes over Management -- maybe Regent, Shangri-La or Orient Express? -- will invest in their staff and hire those with the right attitude for the luxury hotel business as one can always be trained in the business but one cannot be trained how to go the extra mile or want to serve, qualities that the best hotels in the world have in their respective staffs.

At least, or worst, the Plaza of old is forever immortalised in Home Alone 2, which, I guess in hindsight, was pretty accurate in depicting the kind of service one could expect there!!!

auh2o

What is NY thinking? The International Olympic Committee arrives in NY tonight and is staying at The Plaza for the next 4 nights. If Bloomberg thinks a stay at The Plaza is going to help NY win the 2012 games, he's crazy!

TRAVELSIG

There was a great article in the New York Post today- talking about how New York must be trying their best to ensure they don't win the bid by having the IOC stay at the Plaza......sad but true!

Leisuremiles

I read that the project will be a total gut and re-do, I don't think any of the original suites will survive as the new much smaller hotel part of the building will all be on the 58th(?) street side and the new condos will all front either the Park or 5th Avenue. I believe the piece said that there will be a restaurant in the Oyster Bar space, but that even the Oak Bar will be part of the condo space.

Makanmata

Couldn't agree more. Just the union protecting its turf at the expense of everybody else, and disregarding other people's private property.

By the way, the NY "Mansion Tax" does absolutely apply to all condos over $1 million, despite the fact that this amount will barely cover a one bedroom apartment in Manhattan (not much of a mansion).

auh2o

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TRAVEL/04/15...eut/index.html

It worked.

WearyBizTrvlr

Ugh. Sets an awful precedent.

luxury

Bravo!! This is excellent news........ at least a very important part of NYCs history will be preserved, not just a shell of its former self.

Non-NonRev

My understanding was that there were really two areas of argument - the first being the percentage of condos versus hotel rooms, and the second being what would happen to the public rooms.

To me, the case for preserving the public spaces was much stronger than that for the number of rooms to be included in the future hotel. My understanding was that they plan to convert the Grand Ballroom into luxury shops.

I hope they can create an ambience like that which existed at the Regent Wall Street Hotel.

Also, I don't think that there is any doubt that the condos will have the park views, with the hotel rooms, as stated above, being located on the 58th Street side (but to me, the real attraction of a true 5* hotel on this property will be the specific spot on Fifth Avenue, not any possibility of a view possibility).

Makanmata

I'm not surprised that the only people who think that the "preservation" of the Plaza is good news, are people who live elsewhere. This was nothing short of a shakedown, and indicates a tourism at the expense of everything mentality that seems to prevail amongst the politicians in New York these days.

In a city with an acute housing shortage like New York, one might have thought that a plan to convert hotel rooms to apartments would be welcomed, and probably 99% of those living here probably would probably think so. The hotel workers union however, is amongst the most powerful political forces in New York, and consistently works to assure that the City caters to visitors, at the expense of residents. They also love the harebrained Westside Stadium and Convention Center and 2012 Olympics that both threaten to render this City entirely unlivable. Thanks to their demagoguery and intimidation, they have “preserved” a space for wealthy people to have weddings, out of towners to eat fancy dinners, and for doormen -- who kick-up their Union dues -- to earn outsize six-figure salaries. "Preserving" unwanted relics like this, at the expense of housing -- and property rights -- is not good for New Yorkers, and seems to me to be nothing short of an outrage.

luxury

There are times when history needs to be preserved and the Plaza is part of New York City's and the US' history. If the Plaza was going to be converted into affordable housing then it would have been a different story. But because even wealthier people (people vastly wealthier than those who hold weddings at the Plaza) can no longer buy tony flats as a result I am not too sympathetic at all. Government intervention in this case is good; they represent the people and democracy is precisely rule by the people. Corporations are not democratic. Bravo to New York!!