Japan TR: Aman Tokyo - Amanemu - St. Regis Osaka
Nov 18, 2018, 5:56 am
#31
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: NYC, SEA, TPE
Programs: BR Diamond, B6 Mosaic
Posts: 436
I appreciate that you think Aman Tokyo is worth the much higher premium and that Prince Gallery isn’t worth the lower cost. I simply couldn’t disagree more. That we can afford to stay at Aman Tokyo isn’t enough for us to think it’s worth its excessive premium.
Aman is worth it for us when it is far and away the best hard product in a location where nothing else comes close. Aman is worth it for us when it is far and away the best service in a location where nothing else comes close. Aman Tokyo has an incredible hard product in a city where other top hotels can compete—including the incredible hard product of the PG. But the Aman Tokyo has an uneven and often disappointing soft product that makes us unable to justify its price premium. That we can afford it isn’t in question; that we don’t think it’s worth it isn’t. It isn’t for us.
I feel bad for those expecting Aman Tokyo to be comparable to the worldwide and historic Aman level of service elsewhere...since the Aman Tokyo cannot and does not deliver that to any consistent degree. The PG hard product is almost as impressive and at a third or so of the average price. And with reasonably comparable service in our experience.
For those of us who have Ambassador elite status, the PG service can and does approach that of the Aman Tokyo—but at a fraction of the price. Just because we can afford the Aman doesn’t mean I want to waste money at the Aman.
- Yes, they have cribs, but only normal-sized pillows and blankets. Imagine how stupid (and unsafe) a crib looks with a pile of down comforter + a king-sized pillow on top.
- Baby finished half a banana at breakfast and we were taking the other half with us, so she could eat it later and not waste it. But, we were stopped by the wait staff (in perfect English) saying that no food is allowed to be removed. When I tried to explain to them the situation, they just replied "Sorry, no English."
- Concierge was useless and almost wasted an afternoon of my time. I asked them for where I could buy contact lenses for my wife because she forgot to bring them. He was explaining that everything needs to go through a prescription from a doctor at a clinic. So, he booked her at a clinic 45 mins away for the next day. As I walked through Akasaka, I saw Bic Camera and got exactly what she needed in 5 mins. It's one thing not to know the answer to something, but it's something else to say something wrong to the customer.
- Usually when these issues happen, I will ask to talk to the GM because it's pointless just to complain on the internet. I explained to the Front Desk that I wanted to talk to the GM because of some issues; it was okay if he/she wasn't there because I could reach out to him separately. They said what they could do is to introduce me to the Front Office Manager, which is what I did. It was like I was talking to a brick-wall the whole time. Other than giving me his name card and saying "yes" repeated, I don't think he cared at all about our concerns. I would expect these properties to appreciate the feedback.
I guess when I was traveling by myself, I didn't need any interaction with them, and thus their service was fine. But, if one is traveling with family (especially kids), I would recommend Aman Tokyo or Ritz Carlton Club Level. For the price point of PG, I prefer Palace Hotel.
Nov 18, 2018, 2:11 pm
#32
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: BKK
Posts: 6,741
My favorites are the following (in no particular order)
Top tier:
Ritz-Carlton (club level)
Mandarin Oriental
Park Hyatt
Aman
Four Seasons Marunouchi
Andaz
Second tier, larger properties with great F&B:
New Otani
Grand Hyatt
Imperial
Shangri-La, Palace, Prince Gallery, etc.. all are very good, but I have less experience with these recently. Have never stayed at PG.
Peninsula I have basically written off. Conrad is an acceptable choice, but it would have to be priced lower than the aforementioned options for me to consider it. It is a second tier hotel, not quite on par with the top hotels.
The question of where to stay really is subjective and depends on priorities, location, and rates.
Top tier:
Ritz-Carlton (club level)
Mandarin Oriental
Park Hyatt
Aman
Four Seasons Marunouchi
Andaz
Second tier, larger properties with great F&B:
New Otani
Grand Hyatt
Imperial
Shangri-La, Palace, Prince Gallery, etc.. all are very good, but I have less experience with these recently. Have never stayed at PG.
Peninsula I have basically written off. Conrad is an acceptable choice, but it would have to be priced lower than the aforementioned options for me to consider it. It is a second tier hotel, not quite on par with the top hotels.
The question of where to stay really is subjective and depends on priorities, location, and rates.
Nov 18, 2018, 2:24 pm
#33
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: La Jolla, CA
Programs: Marriott Ambassador, Lifetime Titanium, Delta Plat, Hilton Diamond , Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 2,615
There are some, including many on here, who have provided exceptional feedback on Aman Tokyo. But I think it's also safe to say there are many who haven't - it's a very mixed property, perhaps more so than many other Amans. In fact, the same goes for Amanemu. What has consistently stood out across all reports is the stunning hard product at both, across positive, neutral and negative reviews.
Generally speaking, I'd argue that the Aman Tokyo premium isn't worth it, especially when they start hiking their rates in some cases to around ~USD 1,000-1,200/night++, while the others are at 50-75% of what Aman is charging, and especially when you're out and about all day in the city, and the Aman service isn't really there.
Amanemu is a good option for local Japanese, or for those who have gone to Japan a billion times and done all the other ryokans and onsens around Kyoto and Mount Fuji and just want something different.
Generally speaking, I'd argue that the Aman Tokyo premium isn't worth it, especially when they start hiking their rates in some cases to around ~USD 1,000-1,200/night++, while the others are at 50-75% of what Aman is charging, and especially when you're out and about all day in the city, and the Aman service isn't really there.
Amanemu is a good option for local Japanese, or for those who have gone to Japan a billion times and done all the other ryokans and onsens around Kyoto and Mount Fuji and just want something different.
Curious which Ryokan near Mt Fuji you would recommend. My son has booked Amanemu next September on Citi 4NF - Ryokans are not eligible- but he would consider as an option if one is amazing.
Nov 19, 2018, 7:38 am
#34
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Enroute to ? & likely flying in ' A ':)
Programs: TPPS, UA, EK ...; Marriott BONVOY , HH, GP, GC..
Posts: 4,217
AmanTokyo worked very well for us this trip including proximity to the newly opened FCCI Building .
We also had an excellent meal at Palace Hotel . From a cursory visit , Palace might work too if AmanTokyo is full especially if the rate is lower
The overnight stop enroute in Hakone is good for a change of scenery especially for the autumn / fall colours . Think many better ryokans here are at full occupancy due to this . Assume similar will happen for sakura season .. think locals enjoy coming here too , a quick commute from Tokyo .
We also had an excellent meal at Palace Hotel . From a cursory visit , Palace might work too if AmanTokyo is full especially if the rate is lower
The overnight stop enroute in Hakone is good for a change of scenery especially for the autumn / fall colours . Think many better ryokans here are at full occupancy due to this . Assume similar will happen for sakura season .. think locals enjoy coming here too , a quick commute from Tokyo .
Nov 20, 2018, 2:58 am
#35
formerly vienna-resident
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Montepulciano, Tuscany
Posts: 1,067
Nov 22, 2018, 3:08 pm
#37
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Enroute to ? & likely flying in ' A ':)
Programs: TPPS, UA, EK ...; Marriott BONVOY , HH, GP, GC..
Posts: 4,217
What has become a rather lengthy TR is about complete , been trying to edit as possibly too many photos or duplicates which I cannot seem to delete ..
Thanks to some FTers including bhrubin , MacMyDay , vienna-resident , we dined at some amazing restaurants & avoided some places .
Due to a public holiday , the RC Kyoto rates for a room , not even a suite , are like double those of Nemu & AmanTokyo !!
So onto St Regis Osaka . Kyoto a holiday destination even for the locals unlike Osaka ..
Happy Thanksgiving
Last edited by FlyerEC; Nov 22, 2018 at 3:18 pm
Nov 22, 2018, 4:28 pm
#38
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,600
Thank you FlyerEC and vienna-resident, both of you certainly spared no effort in giving us these amazing trip reports, an arduous task, pictures included. I am amused that the experience was seemingly very different, despite both stays around the same time. Just had the time to read through FlyerEC's TR and update to vienna-resident's posts.
Wonder if CRM really is non-existent, we all know how profiles change our stays immensely. CRM was major project for VD after takeover, although something was in place before, though different. Might note different communication styles with Aman these days. Magic happened in correspondence, many these do not 'speak' Aman, less and less at least -- sadly. I am not too convinced of new proceedings (if there are any) regarding Amanjunkie profiles. Aman Tokyo could have been given heads up regarding FlyerEC's superstar status from Nemu or various other GMs possibly, likely no indication of system involved. FlyerEC is undoubtedly one of Aman's most valued guests and Tokyo got it right for them eventually, which is wonderful news. They failed to provide a memorable stay for vienna-resident, can have multitude of reasons, including pure chance (really): check-in/out times, interaction with staff, shift schedules and annual leaves, profile, team relationship, communication, etc...
I am glad both of you had wonderful sojourns, and not all is lost with Aman, though some observations are quite scary indeed... but at the end of the day, occupancy levels seem to encourage them not to care all too much about Aman DNA, especially with revenue from locals and celebrity/"influencer" endorsements.
Wonder if CRM really is non-existent, we all know how profiles change our stays immensely. CRM was major project for VD after takeover, although something was in place before, though different. Might note different communication styles with Aman these days. Magic happened in correspondence, many these do not 'speak' Aman, less and less at least -- sadly. I am not too convinced of new proceedings (if there are any) regarding Amanjunkie profiles. Aman Tokyo could have been given heads up regarding FlyerEC's superstar status from Nemu or various other GMs possibly, likely no indication of system involved. FlyerEC is undoubtedly one of Aman's most valued guests and Tokyo got it right for them eventually, which is wonderful news. They failed to provide a memorable stay for vienna-resident, can have multitude of reasons, including pure chance (really): check-in/out times, interaction with staff, shift schedules and annual leaves, profile, team relationship, communication, etc...
I am glad both of you had wonderful sojourns, and not all is lost with Aman, though some observations are quite scary indeed... but at the end of the day, occupancy levels seem to encourage them not to care all too much about Aman DNA, especially with revenue from locals and celebrity/"influencer" endorsements.
Nov 22, 2018, 10:35 pm
#39
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 10,053
You are welcome .
What has become a rather lengthy TR is about complete , been trying to edit as possibly too many photos or duplicates which I cannot seem to delete ..
Thanks to some FTers including bhrubin , MacMyDay , vienna-resident , we dined at some amazing restaurants & avoided some places .
Due to a public holiday , the RC Kyoto rates for a room , not even a suite , are like double those of Nemu & AmanTokyo !!
So onto St Regis Osaka . Kyoto a holiday destination even for the locals unlike Osaka ..
Happy Thanksgiving
Nov 23, 2018, 1:32 am
#40
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: here and there
Programs: some
Posts: 3,381
I had a stay at Aman Tokyo (second stay) the week before last and it was fabulous. This is my favourite city hotel in the world after Aman Venice and FS Paris. The only minor issue was no evening gift whereas last time I got a wonderful fan. Otherwise, it was truly outstanding.
Musashi was a bit of a disappointment but I was given a nice bottle of sake the next day when checking out for some of the issues so I'll let that one slide.
The comments about Amanemu are disappointing. It was never my favourite Aman to say the least (although it really is quite pretty) but at least with Hisayo-san it certainly felt personal.
Musashi was a bit of a disappointment but I was given a nice bottle of sake the next day when checking out for some of the issues so I'll let that one slide.
The comments about Amanemu are disappointing. It was never my favourite Aman to say the least (although it really is quite pretty) but at least with Hisayo-san it certainly felt personal.
Nov 23, 2018, 8:48 pm
#41
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Enroute to ? & likely flying in ' A ':)
Programs: TPPS, UA, EK ...; Marriott BONVOY , HH, GP, GC..
Posts: 4,217
St. Regis Osaka In autumn
The St Regis Osaka
3-6-12 Honmachi Chuo-ku Osaka, JP 5410053
RecommendedLiked: LocationServiceFoodAmenitiesRoom
St. Regis Osaka In autumn (19 Photos)
The St Regis Osaka
Arrival & Check - in
Foyer
We arrived in the evening by car from Kyoto . Lovely to see the CHRISTmas decorations up in a more homey style compared to AmanTokyo and RC Kyoto .
They were expecting us & we were quickly brought to the lobby for check in on the 12 th floor .
We see this as soon as the elevator doors open . This is the outdoor garden , but sadly for many , commandeered by smokers :(
A wedding shoot was was taking place in the morning
Room
Our choice of welcome drinks were promptly served in the room .
Possibly the same room on the 25 floor as viennaresident was in !
No need for me to elaborate :)
The AC was set at 17 C , lowest it can get to as in other hotels on this trip .
Here is a photo taken at dawn .
And another
View of planes after take off in a distance . Here is one
Another beautiful clear crisp day in Japan . View from room .
Service
Very warm , with quite a few eager international interns from hotel school in Switzerland , as in RC Kyoto .
Complimentary pressing of 2 items daily along with shoe shine - practical with all the walking viewing fall foliage , etc .
Dining
Perhaps it is a National long weekend , but the restaurant was busy even at 8 am ! We were alerted to be down early and we are glad we did .
Enjoyed the spread along with cook to order mains which I had 2 , including steak with foie gras . There are 3 different ways of serving Eggs Benedict here ;)
The CHRISTmas theme afternoon tea buffet where breakfast is . Photo was taken after the guests left with yours truly waiting to take this .
Amenities
What I like about StR is their butlers , helpful even prior to arrival .
Often have interesting errands for them .
The garden terrace on level 12 is likely a popular site for outdoor weddings .
Concierge
The concierge team along with the bell team are efficient too , very high occupancy during our stay .
Bathroom
Is adequate . About two thirds the size of RC Kyoto room . Not talking about RC Kyoto suites , or not even mention the Amans .
But we do like the shower jets & using the bath . Did not watch the TV though , time to relax not get perturbed watching bad news .
Bath salts , etcetera though not placed with other amenities , can be requested - butler service :)
Location
Very central indeed & right in the middle of the Osaka marathon too .
Also in between 2 very different shopping areas :
One the sheltered pedestrian alley / mall for all , mind you a national public holiday , hordes .. & I wonder if families came from across the Pacific / pond since the long weekends coincided too !
Here is one with a break in the swarms
Here is an alley off the main drag
Then the other area / street where it is designers ‘ galore - you know the usual suspects : Chanel , Dior , Tiffany .. erh , Apple . This was beautifully and simply lit for the season . You see a sliver of St R on the left .
Overall
Possibly the best in Osaka .
StR , outdoor area all ready for CHRISTmas on the genteel shopping street side
To think I missed seeing this if not for the marathon .
Bonus : Osaka marathon & St Regis
Am not a runner .. however watching it live is doable in cool crisp weather ;) One cannot complain about traffic issues with road closures partial or otherwise , with ringside views !
We only found out Saturday , which is the day before today / Sunday ‘ s marathon through a note left in our room . It was mainly in Japanese .
So if you enjoy such activities , StR is definitely the hotel to be at . We gathered from the marshals that it is about the 10 km mark & the runners go for another 10 before doubling back .
These were the first runners & were they fast ! Actually so were those before them ..
One of the helicopters hovering above St Regis
Wonder if the lovely blushing bride and her beaming groom knew about the marathon . They were happy to have their photos taken & official photographers / videographer who were with them were actually up in the hotel too . Temperature was about 11 C
Nov 23, 2018, 9:06 pm
#42
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Southern California, USA
Programs: Marriott Ambassador and LTT, UA Plat/LT Gold, AA Gold
Posts: 8,764
Glad to see the StR Osaka treated you both so well! I’m still in touch with their Executive Chef after our wonderful stay in May.
Nov 25, 2018, 3:18 pm
#43
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Enroute to ? & likely flying in ' A ':)
Programs: TPPS, UA, EK ...; Marriott BONVOY , HH, GP, GC..
Posts: 4,217
Will probably post Nemu update / TR here later ( where my other Amanemu TRs are ) :
FlyerTalk Forums > Travel&Dining > Luxury Hotels and Travel
> Amanemu -- consoldiated thread (Shima area, Japan)
Thanks again bhrubin & vienna-resident for your advice on StR Osaka
bhrubin you should try the Japanese Amans , perhaps wait for Kyoto to open
If you are like visiting temples , the one near Nemu is a must do / go for every Japanese - was just highlighted to me by our regular chauffeur . Just not during a national holiday or long weekend
FlyerTalk Forums > Travel&Dining > Luxury Hotels and Travel
> Amanemu -- consoldiated thread (Shima area, Japan)
Thanks again bhrubin & vienna-resident for your advice on StR Osaka
bhrubin you should try the Japanese Amans , perhaps wait for Kyoto to open
If you are like visiting temples , the one near Nemu is a must do / go for every Japanese - was just highlighted to me by our regular chauffeur . Just not during a national holiday or long weekend
Last edited by FlyerEC; Nov 25, 2018 at 3:28 pm
Nov 25, 2018, 4:36 pm
#44
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Southern California, USA
Programs: Marriott Ambassador and LTT, UA Plat/LT Gold, AA Gold
Posts: 8,764
Will probably post Nemu update / TR here later ( where my other Amanemu TRs are ) :
FlyerTalk Forums > Travel&Dining > Luxury Hotels and Travel
> Amanemu -- consoldiated thread (Shima area, Japan)
Thanks again bhrubin & vienna-resident for your advice on StR Osaka
bhrubin you should try the Japanese Amans , perhaps wait for Kyoto to open
If you are like visiting temples , the one near Nemu is a must do / go for every Japanese - was just highlighted to me by our regular chauffeur . Just not during a national holiday or long weekend
FlyerTalk Forums > Travel&Dining > Luxury Hotels and Travel
> Amanemu -- consoldiated thread (Shima area, Japan)
Thanks again bhrubin & vienna-resident for your advice on StR Osaka
bhrubin you should try the Japanese Amans , perhaps wait for Kyoto to open
If you are like visiting temples , the one near Nemu is a must do / go for every Japanese - was just highlighted to me by our regular chauffeur . Just not during a national holiday or long weekend
For Tokyo (and most cities, actually) I doubt I’d ever want to spend the premium for Aman. The new service standard just isn’t worth the premium as far as we can see. I’d rather leverage my incredible Marriott Ambassador elite status and stay at an almost as impressive StR, RC, or Luxury Collection hotel for much less money or even using points and still have an incredibly elevated stay. We had a truly impressive stay at the Prince Gallery for much less than Aman Tokyo, and I’d stay there at the PG again in a second. Aman Tokyo—beyond the beautiful lobby and amazing pool deck—just didn’t wow us like it has for you and others.
For Amanemu, I’d never want to stay there. There’s nothing of interest for me, unfortunately. I need things to see, but there’s nothing notable nearby. That temple notwithstanding. And I don’t care about spas. This is one of the worst fits for me.
Aman Kyoto is a possibility, though with Suiran and RC Kyoto both available to me—and me so preferring the Arashiyama location of Suiran—the cost/benefit still swings away from Aman. We already had an absolutely incredible stay at Suiran and a really wonderful stay at the RC. Perhaps for a very special occasion if we tired of Suiran...but I prefer the Suiran location to that of the future Aman. Suiran was one of my most amazing stays anywhere.
We do return to Amangiri in January. That is my kind of Aman and totally worth the premium.
Nov 25, 2018, 5:08 pm
#45
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Enroute to ? & likely flying in ' A ':)
Programs: TPPS, UA, EK ...; Marriott BONVOY , HH, GP, GC..
Posts: 4,217
@FlyerEC always glad to help!
For Tokyo (and most cities, actually) I doubt I’d ever want to spend the premium for Aman. The new service standard just isn’t worth the premium as far as we can see. I’d rather leverage my incredible Marriott Ambassador elite status and stay at an almost as impressive StR, RC, or Luxury Collection hotel for much less money or even using points and still have an incredibly elevated stay. We had a truly impressive stay at the Prince Gallery for much less than Aman Tokyo, and I’d stay there at the PG again in a second. Aman Tokyo—beyond the beautiful lobby and amazing pool deck—just didn’t wow us like it has for you and others.
For Amanemu, I’d never want to stay there. There’s nothing of interest for me, unfortunately. I need things to see, but there’s nothing notable nearby. That temple notwithstanding. And I don’t care about spas. This is one of the worst fits for me.
Aman Kyoto is a possibility, though with Suiran and RC Kyoto both available to me—and me so preferring the Arashiyama location of Suiran—the cost/benefit still swings away from Aman. We already had an absolutely incredible stay at Suiran and a really wonderful stay at the RC. Perhaps for a very special occasion if we tired of Suiran...but I prefer the Suiran location to that of the future Aman. Suiran was one of my most amazing stays anywhere.
We do return to Amangiri in January. That is my kind of Aman and totally worth the premium.
Or even watch live from Nemu after that ..
Nemu isn’t only onsen / spa which the locals love , there are activities besides the pearls - Mikiimoto ‘ factory ‘ , farms including treks in the National Park it is in .
Was relieved too that we could use points for RC Kyoto , the rates this year are horrendous . FTer vienna resident who ‘ rescued ‘ the situation , was the one who highlighted that they were twice that of AmanTokyo & Nemu !!
. I hadn’t looked assumed same as ‘ 17 when we stayed 3 times ..That is how we also ended up in StR Osaka like him
& suggested by you too .Did not realise that our stays were clashing with a national long weekend plus the Osaka marathon - now I can say I have really been to one
- last year ‘ s at StR SFO marathon / Bay run was viewed from the room / suite ( which you also helped with ) !Should be looking into my various status - MR , etc