Nov 1, 2022, 6:01 pm
Last edit by: RichardInSF
Please also see this outstanding thread in which KI-NRT has reviewed a number of luxury ryokan:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2095029&referrerid=14479
And here's a link to the main thread discussing luxury hotels in Tokyo:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1910955&referrerid=14479
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2095029&referrerid=14479
And here's a link to the main thread discussing luxury hotels in Tokyo:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1910955&referrerid=14479
Luxury hotels of Japan (outside of Tokyo)
Sep 18, 2018, 12:26 pm
#571
formerly htang333
Join Date: Apr 2014
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Hi All,
I've been following this thread (and all the others about luxury Japan [for years... really,]) and we're starting our planning for a July trip this summer. We're 2 families with small children 2yrs & 5yrs traveling for my sister's 40th bday. Based on all I've read here's what we're thinking about so far:
4 Nights Tokyo Aman
2 Nights Hakone - Hyatt or Gora Kadan
4 Nights Kyoto RC
4 Nights Amanemu
2 Nights Osaka StR
My biggest question is around Hakone, we'd like to do some hiking around Mt Fuji so Hakone seemed like the best place to do that. There's so much negativity around Gora Kadan but the Hyatt seems fairly corporate and lacking luxury. If you knew all of the negatives going into GK (the smell, the food.. etc.) and had reasonable expectations would it still have been as bad? It's also a uniquely Japanese experience. We're traveling with vegetarians (i understand they will accommodate food requests in advance.) and children (they are reportedly family friendly.) It just seems like a more interesting experience (and I think i'd prefer rolling the dice with GK rather than knowing HR will be mediocre.) Or do we scrap Hakone and pick somewhere else?
I open to suggestions on timing if we're spending too little or too much in some places. It's an ambitious trip, I know, especially with littles, but we are up for it (I think.) We are aware of the heat and possible rain, but we've got both in NYC and would rather be traveling.
Thanks for your advice in advance.
I've been following this thread (and all the others about luxury Japan [for years... really,]) and we're starting our planning for a July trip this summer. We're 2 families with small children 2yrs & 5yrs traveling for my sister's 40th bday. Based on all I've read here's what we're thinking about so far:
4 Nights Tokyo Aman
2 Nights Hakone - Hyatt or Gora Kadan
4 Nights Kyoto RC
4 Nights Amanemu
2 Nights Osaka StR
My biggest question is around Hakone, we'd like to do some hiking around Mt Fuji so Hakone seemed like the best place to do that. There's so much negativity around Gora Kadan but the Hyatt seems fairly corporate and lacking luxury. If you knew all of the negatives going into GK (the smell, the food.. etc.) and had reasonable expectations would it still have been as bad? It's also a uniquely Japanese experience. We're traveling with vegetarians (i understand they will accommodate food requests in advance.) and children (they are reportedly family friendly.) It just seems like a more interesting experience (and I think i'd prefer rolling the dice with GK rather than knowing HR will be mediocre.) Or do we scrap Hakone and pick somewhere else?
I open to suggestions on timing if we're spending too little or too much in some places. It's an ambitious trip, I know, especially with littles, but we are up for it (I think.) We are aware of the heat and possible rain, but we've got both in NYC and would rather be traveling.
Thanks for your advice in advance.
I'd also suggest the FS Kyoto over the RC...This is a great RC but the FS is fabulous. RC's location is a bit better, though, getting around Kyoto is easy.
Sep 18, 2018, 12:40 pm
#572
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: NYC
Programs: Amex Plat, FHR, SPG
Posts: 107
Thanks for the insight. It's our first time, outside of Tokyo, for most of us. Osaka is really more of a move after Amanemu (Which we are fairly set on.) We were planning on flying out of Osaka connecting in Tokyo for our flight home. We're open to considering alternates to Hakone, but it seemed the most convenient with luxury options. We'll be there early July.
Sep 18, 2018, 1:21 pm
#573
Suspended
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If we can ask, why are you set on Amanemu? Are you really big spa/relaxation types who will enjoy 4 nights in a spa? If so, that does make perfect sense.
If not, then I similarly question whether you are making the best choice. Amanemu is nothing more than a destination Aman version of a ryokan with nothing around it really. It's intended to serve the market for wealthy Tokyoites and Osakaites and Kyotoites (and others around Japan) who want to enjoy an Aman version of the ryokan experience (and as a destination for weddings).
I wouldn't stay more than a night or two in Osaka, unless you're a big fan of street food or want to visit something else particular to Osaka. We just were there and enjoyed our 3 nights...but we could have done it in 2 nights.
That being said, we most enjoyed the service and food/beverage of the StR Osaka. If you prefer a more modern hard product (and a lobby view even more impressive than that of the Aman Tokyo), then you may also consider the Conrad Osaka. (But the Conrad is not nearly as good on service or food/beverage.)
All that being said, we spent a week in Kyoto--and could have stayed longer. And we are people who rarely stay longer than 3-4 nights ANYWHERE. We did 5 nights at Suiran (a ryokan/hotel hybrid) and 2 nights at the RC Kyoto. If you really want a more proper ryokan style stay, then perhaps you might swap Amanemu for either Suiran or even the more ryokan based Hoshinoya Kyoto--both are on the opposite side of bustling Kyoto from the RC Kyoto, and will give you a great opportunity to explore more of that incredible city and surrounding areas.
As it turned out, we vastly preferred the Arashiyama side of Kyoto (where Suiran and Hoshinoya are located) over the busier and more touristy side where the RC and FS are located.
If not, then I similarly question whether you are making the best choice. Amanemu is nothing more than a destination Aman version of a ryokan with nothing around it really. It's intended to serve the market for wealthy Tokyoites and Osakaites and Kyotoites (and others around Japan) who want to enjoy an Aman version of the ryokan experience (and as a destination for weddings).
We were planning on flying out of Osaka connecting in Tokyo for our flight home.
That being said, we most enjoyed the service and food/beverage of the StR Osaka. If you prefer a more modern hard product (and a lobby view even more impressive than that of the Aman Tokyo), then you may also consider the Conrad Osaka. (But the Conrad is not nearly as good on service or food/beverage.)
All that being said, we spent a week in Kyoto--and could have stayed longer. And we are people who rarely stay longer than 3-4 nights ANYWHERE. We did 5 nights at Suiran (a ryokan/hotel hybrid) and 2 nights at the RC Kyoto. If you really want a more proper ryokan style stay, then perhaps you might swap Amanemu for either Suiran or even the more ryokan based Hoshinoya Kyoto--both are on the opposite side of bustling Kyoto from the RC Kyoto, and will give you a great opportunity to explore more of that incredible city and surrounding areas.
As it turned out, we vastly preferred the Arashiyama side of Kyoto (where Suiran and Hoshinoya are located) over the busier and more touristy side where the RC and FS are located.
Sep 18, 2018, 2:24 pm
#574
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: NYC
Programs: Amex Plat, FHR, SPG
Posts: 107
I don't think we're looking for more traditional Ryokans (outside of maybe 1 or 2 nights at Gora Kadan.) We're traveling with kids, vegetarians (and one non-seafood eater... i know, i know it's going to be interesting.)
Sep 18, 2018, 7:18 pm
#575
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Enroute to ? & likely flying in ' A ':)
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Posts: 4,220
We figured after all the running around above, it might be nice to have a couple of days to relax. The Villas are also ideal for us, since we can get two master rooms and a connecting living space for the kids.
We're doing 2 nights. And i would love to do a street food tour there... it looks amazing.
I don't think we're looking for more traditional Ryokans (outside of maybe 1 or 2 nights at Gora Kadan.) We're traveling with kids, vegetarians (and one non-seafood eater... i know, i know it's going to be interesting.)
We're doing 2 nights. And i would love to do a street food tour there... it looks amazing.
I don't think we're looking for more traditional Ryokans (outside of maybe 1 or 2 nights at Gora Kadan.) We're traveling with kids, vegetarians (and one non-seafood eater... i know, i know it's going to be interesting.)
4 Nights Tokyo Aman
2 Nights Hakone - Hyatt or Gora Kadan
4 Nights Kyoto RC
4 Nights Amanemu
2 Nights Osaka StR
Will let you know in November / December
Wanted to try Suiran but it is full our November dates
Will be returning to Nemu for the 3rd time in 2 years
. Lovely area to either relax or explore Decided on Hyatt as seems best around there & you likely have read about horror stays at Gora Kadan
Feel free to pm me
Sep 19, 2018, 3:03 am
#576
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Everywhere
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Posts: 773
Gora Kadan is stellar. Great hard product, amazing food and warm and prompt service.
My guess is that most complaints about Gora Kadan has more to do with the onsen ryokan experience in general, rather than the property itself. It's not for everyone.
It's definitely up my alley, though!
Sep 19, 2018, 4:32 am
#577
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: SIN
Programs: CX DM
Posts: 125
Given you're traveling with small kids you will have no problem filling the time in Osaka- there are lots of excellent kids' diversions there (PM me if you want more detail of things we have done with ours). and the littles ones love the street food too.
Sep 19, 2018, 5:05 am
#578
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: London, UK
Programs: Ronin - churn and burn
Posts: 701
Our trip in November is similar to yours but no Osaka
4 Nights Tokyo Aman
2 Nights Hakone - Hyatt or Gora Kadan
4 Nights Kyoto RC
4 Nights Amanemu
2 Nights Osaka StR
Will let you know in November / December
Wanted to try Suiran but it is full our November dates
Will be returning to Nemu for the 3rd time in 2 years
. Lovely area to either relax or exploreDecided on Hyatt as seems best around there & you likely have read about horror stays at Gora Kadan
Feel free to pm me
Like bhrubin, we initially had some real problems with the concierge but were compensated more than adequately and were very well looked after during our stay.
Having spent time in Kyoto at all times of the year, I have to say that Autumn is my favourite, not only is the foliage spectacular but the seasonal produce is probably the most varied and interesting. Of all the restaurants we tried, Gion Nishikawa was our favourite, with Monk being possibly the biggest surprise standout (particularly since it is not really Japanese food in the traditional sense). If you're interested in either make sure you ask the RC concierge to reserve them well in advance!
Sep 19, 2018, 7:18 am
#579
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 10,062
We spent 5 nights at the RC Kyoto last November and loved it so much that we intend to repeat the experience next year.
Like bhrubin, we initially had some real problems with the concierge but were compensated more than adequately and were very well looked after during our stay.
Having spent time in Kyoto at all times of the year, I have to say that Autumn is my favourite, not only is the foliage spectacular but the seasonal produce is probably the most varied and interesting. Of all the restaurants we tried, Gion Nishikawa was our favourite, with Monk being possibly the biggest surprise standout (particularly since it is not really Japanese food in the traditional sense). If you're interested in either make sure you ask the RC concierge to reserve them well in advance!
Like bhrubin, we initially had some real problems with the concierge but were compensated more than adequately and were very well looked after during our stay.
Having spent time in Kyoto at all times of the year, I have to say that Autumn is my favourite, not only is the foliage spectacular but the seasonal produce is probably the most varied and interesting. Of all the restaurants we tried, Gion Nishikawa was our favourite, with Monk being possibly the biggest surprise standout (particularly since it is not really Japanese food in the traditional sense). If you're interested in either make sure you ask the RC concierge to reserve them well in advance!
Sep 19, 2018, 9:09 am
#580
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: NYC
Programs: Amex Plat, FHR, SPG
Posts: 107
Car from Tokyo to Hakone,
Train from Hakone to Kyoto
Car from Kyoto to Amanemu
Train from Amanemu to Osaka
We've been to dozens of onsen ryokans over the years, including multiple stays at Gora Kadan (most recently this past December.)
Gora Kadan is stellar. Great hard product, amazing food and warm and prompt service.
My guess is that most complaints about Gora Kadan has more to do with the onsen ryokan experience in general, rather than the property itself. It's not for everyone.
It's definitely up my alley, though!
Gora Kadan is stellar. Great hard product, amazing food and warm and prompt service.
My guess is that most complaints about Gora Kadan has more to do with the onsen ryokan experience in general, rather than the property itself. It's not for everyone.
It's definitely up my alley, though!
Sep 19, 2018, 9:32 am
#581
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 10,062
Excellent! I look forward to hearing about your trip. I'm curious how you're planning all the transfers. So far we're thinking.
Car from Tokyo to Hakone,
Train from Hakone to Kyoto
Car from Kyoto to Amanemu
Train from Amanemu to Osaka
I definitely will. Thank you.
I'm guessing that too... and knowing in advance the limitations... and that we may not like it takes the sting out if we do. And i would rather swing and miss on something like that and at least have the experience.
Car from Tokyo to Hakone,
Train from Hakone to Kyoto
Car from Kyoto to Amanemu
Train from Amanemu to Osaka
I definitely will. Thank you.
I'm guessing that too... and knowing in advance the limitations... and that we may not like it takes the sting out if we do. And i would rather swing and miss on something like that and at least have the experience.
Sep 19, 2018, 5:18 pm
#582
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Enroute to ? & likely flying in ' A ':)
Programs: TPPS, UA, EK ...; Marriott BONVOY , HH, GP, GC..
Posts: 4,220
Excellent! I look forward to hearing about your trip. I'm curious how you're planning all the transfers. So far we're thinking.
Car from Tokyo to Hakone,
Train from Hakone to Kyoto
Car from Kyoto to Amanemu
Train from Amanemu to Osaka
I definitely will. Thank you.
I'm guessing that too... and knowing in advance the limitations... and that we may not like it takes the sting out if we do. And i would rather swing and miss on something like that and at least have the experience.
Car from Tokyo to Hakone,
Train from Hakone to Kyoto
Car from Kyoto to Amanemu
Train from Amanemu to Osaka
I definitely will. Thank you.
I'm guessing that too... and knowing in advance the limitations... and that we may not like it takes the sting out if we do. And i would rather swing and miss on something like that and at least have the experience.
( We did the Shinkansen early ‘ 90s but do not train any more )
He also suggests local favourites , etcetera ..
Think have a TR or 2 / or updates on our Nemu & RC Kyoto stays ..
He did suggest Gora Kadan too but also had some caveats
. Hoping to try Suiran on another visitAm also planning to return when “ AmanKyoto “ opens
Feel free to pm me for more details .
Last edited by FlyerEC; Sep 19, 2018 at 5:28 pm
Sep 20, 2018, 12:27 am
#583
Moderator: Luxury Hotels and FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palo Alto, California,USA
Posts: 17,867
I really like the train ride from Gora to Hakeone Yumoto. It is on a slow old, mostly single track, train line that is over 100 years old. From Hakone Yumoto to Odawra, where you get the shinkansen, is about a 20 minute ride on a standard train and transfer is easy. It's all included in the "Hakone free pass" (which isn't free) available from Odakyu train lines. This pass includes almost every form of transport you can imagine -- cable cars, fake pirate ships, trains, busses, cog railway, etc. Note that many of these are subject to periodic suspensions during the rainy season.
If you don't want to do that, the Hyatt in Hakone can arrange a shuttle and i presume the same is true for the Gora Kadan.
If you don't want to do that, the Hyatt in Hakone can arrange a shuttle and i presume the same is true for the Gora Kadan.
Sep 20, 2018, 5:22 am
#584
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: IAD/DCA
Posts: 31,797
some regulars here liked the residences at IC osaka
(FS kyoto has apartments, RC has some terrace suites)
ryokan regulars will likely recommend 'somewhere else'
IIRC some here did culture/ocean excursions at amanemu
(FS kyoto has apartments, RC has some terrace suites)
ryokan regulars will likely recommend 'somewhere else'
IIRC some here did culture/ocean excursions at amanemu
Last edited by Kagehitokiri; Sep 20, 2018 at 6:07 am
Sep 20, 2018, 5:56 am
#585
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: BKK
Posts: 6,741
If we can ask, why are you set on Amanemu? Are you really big spa/relaxation types who will enjoy 4 nights in a spa? If so, that does make perfect sense.
If not, then I similarly question whether you are making the best choice. Amanemu is nothing more than a destination Aman version of a ryokan with nothing around it really. It's intended to serve the market for wealthy Tokyoites and Osakaites and Kyotoites (and others around Japan) who want to enjoy an Aman version of the ryokan experience (and as a destination for weddings).
If not, then I similarly question whether you are making the best choice. Amanemu is nothing more than a destination Aman version of a ryokan with nothing around it really. It's intended to serve the market for wealthy Tokyoites and Osakaites and Kyotoites (and others around Japan) who want to enjoy an Aman version of the ryokan experience (and as a destination for weddings).
Aman Tokyo, on the other hand, is a high priority for me now. My favorite sushi chef is opening his new restaurant Musashi by Aman soon. When he is there, I will be able to enjoy dinner at the hotel for days on end.