pmcg

Why does the FRA-JNB flight sit on the ground in JNB for 10 hours ?

AndyFlyer

It sits there because there is insufficient point-to-point traffic to warrant an immediate turn around. Most people are originating from somewhere else either in South Africa or Southern Africa (Botswana, Namibia, Zambia, etc.). So, in order to connect using SAA or other carriers, they need a good chunk of the day. Hence, if LH return later in the day, it permits lots of feeder traffic to fill up their planes. A few have tried daylight flights (BA operate one CPT-LHR flight departing 08:30, for example), but that is the exception. All of the London flights are overnight both-ways for Virgin, British Airways and South African, and they all sit for a day in JNB.
Hope this helps.

pmcg

Thanks for that, thought about the connections but then thought if that was it they may switch to a daytime flight rather than sit on the ground so long.

Then I guess it makes more sense with a night flight and spending some time on the ground.

Thanks again.

Flying Lawyer

It sits there because it continues to CPT in the South African summer. In winter, they keep the usual arrival and departure time from Johannesburg, however, as they do not fly from Johannesburg to Kapstad the plain sits there for the day.

Norway_Asia

I didnt know LH was flying JNB-CPT

capetonian

That info is a bit outdated. It used to be like that until two, three years ago. Now LH sends a A 340 to CPT for the period of the winter-timetable. The 747 remains in JNB and does not fly on.

Before the seperate flight to CPT LH had the 747 from FRA and a 340 from MUC and passengers ex MUC could join the onward 747 flight to CPT. However, LH stopped this nearly 3 years ago.

The main reason why most major European airlines keep their planes in JNB for the day is the simple fact that South African premium passengers don't accept daylight flights. Put on a daylight flight and your economy will be fine but your premium classes will suffer.

In addition, there are problems with connections on either side (in SA as well as in Europe) if the flight leaves very early or arrives very late. But again the main reason is the non-acceptance by premium passengers. SAA would love to have daylight flights from JNB/CPT to LHR as they would get more slots but it does not work out for them. They rather have the planes standing around in LHR for more than 12 hours.

They have pulled a trick with the FRA flight which arrives in FRA than leaves for CPT and returns from CPT (as a daylight flight) to FRA and then goes back to JNB. The CPT-FRA route is mainly leisure travel so the daylight flight works on this route.

capetonian

They don't do anymore and they never had traffic rights anyway.

oliver2002

This JNB situation is one of the mysterious instances where airlines that turn every penny twice don't have any problems parking their expensive capital in the sun in a far-away place. FRA, BKK and JFK are the other sites where I have seen airlines park widebodies for some or other strange reason.

noturbulence

Why ?

SmilingBoy

You loose a day. I wouldn't talk about premium travelers, but business travelers. It is perfectly feasible to go to JNB or CPT for a day, and spend the two nights around the day on the plane.

SmilingBoy.

PMMMDL

It is pretty standard for routes between the far northern andfar southern hemispheres.

You will see the same thing with the USA airlines flying to GRU, EZE, and SCL. Vice versa is also true.

Sometimes the USA airlines will use the down time in South America to have their planes "deep cleaned".

szg

I often see the Quantas 747 parked at FRA whole the day (arrival 5:50, departure 23:55).

Kiwi Flyer

Yup, and SYD, MEL, LAX, LHR, etc. Some airlines have simple maintenance done during the down time.

Kiwi Flyer

That is the main reason. There are lots of routes (on various airlines) that do the same. In some cases curfews also come into the equation (eg timing for SYD-LAX vv flights is constrained by SYD's curfew).

IAN-UK

Interesting question and answers. Many carriers have tried tagging short sectors on the end of JNB (and Long-haul destinations) to wring some extra revenue out of 12-hours in the life of a widebody jet - even without sector traffic rights. LX/SR went on from JNB to Harare, but most others tried Cape Town. I guess the operating costs didn't match the revenue, and as code-share opportunities opened it really wasn't worth it - especially if there's some work that can be done on the aircraft while it is on the ground.

BTW, how is it Japan and Hong Kong to FRA and MUC Sao Paulo buck the trend in the LH network?