Let's open a Masterthread ... M&M Changes
Mar 20, 2004, 4:27 am
#151
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Germany / Thailand
Programs: M&M/S SPG livetime gold, but not running behind status & points anymore! Now only book value for $
Posts: 3,090
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Tim2008:
I have scheduled a meeting with my key accounter on Tuesday...</font>
I have scheduled a meeting with my key accounter on Tuesday...</font>
But just interested " where/or what on earth is From: Pangaea "
Mar 20, 2004, 5:36 am
#152
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: CH / D
Programs: Amex, Avis, BA, BD, CX, FS, Hertz, HH, IC, LH, NH, RC, RCCL, Sixt, SPG, SQ, UA
Posts: 7,050
A fancy club in NYC where few real and some pseudo celebrities meet, mingle and get drunk.
Pangaea 417 Lafayette Street between
Astor Place and 4th Street New York, NY.
www.google.com - search for "pangaea ny"
Pangaea 417 Lafayette Street between
Astor Place and 4th Street New York, NY.
www.google.com - search for "pangaea ny"
Mar 20, 2004, 5:47 am
#153
Join Date: Jun 2002
Programs: LH SEN, HH Dia
Posts: 535
[quote]<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by bertheike:
[b]
Pangaea is the name of the ur-continent before it broke-up and eventually seperated into the continents we now know.
[b]
Originally posted by Tim2008:
where/or what on earth is From: Pangaea</font>
where/or what on earth is From: Pangaea</font>
Mar 20, 2004, 6:26 am
#154
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,729
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by flamboyant 1:
A fancy club in NYC where few real and some pseudo celebrities meet, mingle and get drunk.
Pangaea 417 Lafayette Street between
Astor Place and 4th Street New York, NY.
www.google.com - search for "pangaea ny"</font>
A fancy club in NYC where few real and some pseudo celebrities meet, mingle and get drunk.
Pangaea 417 Lafayette Street between
Astor Place and 4th Street New York, NY.
www.google.com - search for "pangaea ny"</font>
Mar 21, 2004, 4:04 am
#156
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: All arround the world
Posts: 194
How to book then (and some reflections)
---------------------------------------
Let's face it, from August 1rst LH & M&M will introduce a new system (maybe with a few more changes to make us less angry).
From my part I can tell that I will be renewing the SEN status every year due to my patterns of flying.
One of the most interesting issues I want to check how they solve it's the internet booking (specially in cheap economy fares), becasue now they must show the options of the cheap economy (Q i.e.) or ultra cheap economy (W i.e.). So far I tried to book for post-D-day and I can't not choose the type of fares (for sure W it's not on sale yet).
The only website that offers the option to choose between cheap fare and almost no miles and 'normal' fares and miles it's SQ.
Based in Spain I have plenty of options to go to all europe for very cheap prizes (9 EUR to fly to FRA or 20 EUR to fly to AMS i.e.), so what will be my choice?
Something I don't think the LH & M&M people consider it's the loyalty they created in us (yes, some of us maybe fanatics indeed), and with this action they just give us a strong signal about what they want from us (only the money). I already introduced more than 15 people to the LH M&M miles reward program. Will I introduce more?, no, I don't think so... Remember that we as a air travellers (for business or pleasure) have good reasons to recommend fly patterns to occasionals travellers (wich they nevery achieve more than 30000 miles in 2 or 3 years) and give more revenue to some companies.
KLM and Air France merged. Iberia and BA are going soon to merge. Alitalia is going also to merge with the KML-Airfrance. We are the only people who can make the difference (specially out of Germany, Austria...) because I can choose between more and more offers. Do they want me?
---------------------------------------
Let's face it, from August 1rst LH & M&M will introduce a new system (maybe with a few more changes to make us less angry).
From my part I can tell that I will be renewing the SEN status every year due to my patterns of flying.
One of the most interesting issues I want to check how they solve it's the internet booking (specially in cheap economy fares), becasue now they must show the options of the cheap economy (Q i.e.) or ultra cheap economy (W i.e.). So far I tried to book for post-D-day and I can't not choose the type of fares (for sure W it's not on sale yet).
The only website that offers the option to choose between cheap fare and almost no miles and 'normal' fares and miles it's SQ.
Based in Spain I have plenty of options to go to all europe for very cheap prizes (9 EUR to fly to FRA or 20 EUR to fly to AMS i.e.), so what will be my choice?
Something I don't think the LH & M&M people consider it's the loyalty they created in us (yes, some of us maybe fanatics indeed), and with this action they just give us a strong signal about what they want from us (only the money). I already introduced more than 15 people to the LH M&M miles reward program. Will I introduce more?, no, I don't think so... Remember that we as a air travellers (for business or pleasure) have good reasons to recommend fly patterns to occasionals travellers (wich they nevery achieve more than 30000 miles in 2 or 3 years) and give more revenue to some companies.
KLM and Air France merged. Iberia and BA are going soon to merge. Alitalia is going also to merge with the KML-Airfrance. We are the only people who can make the difference (specially out of Germany, Austria...) because I can choose between more and more offers. Do they want me?
Mar 21, 2004, 4:55 am
#157
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 18 nautical miles west of LHR
Programs: *A Gold; OW Emerald; HHonors Diamond; Hyatt GoldPassport Platinum; Accor Silver
Posts: 277
I am pretty late in recording my views on the latest news, but suffice it to say, the changes are an OUTRAGE.
The reason I invested all flights on *A/LH was because I was annoyed by the BA Exec club's program. Now it would appear that the LH MM program is going the same way; reward the rich and those lucky enough to have F/C tickets bought by their company and punish those who fly economy/on low fares, irrelevant of how often they do so.
Personally, I never fly F or intercontinental C and have somehow managed to get to Gold status via flying economy, which, as you may imagine, means a hell of a lot of flights. In some respects, you could argue that people like me are the true loyal fans. Let's face it, if you can afford F/C tickets, you can afford to fly with any main carrier; the products at that level are pretty much the same. The fact that I have invested all my flight expense into one carrier in order to pool miles and benefits now seems to be irrelevant to LH. Come August 1, the amount of miles awarded for cheap eco fares will be pathetic. The question therefore Herr Weber (LH's CEO) is why should I continue to fly LH when I could fly EasyJet/Ryanair for a fraction of the price. I may not get a free drink or sandwich, but then you are not offering anything better. Yes, I will be Gold until 2006 and I can use the SEN lounges, but they are far too full at the best of times anyway and the Gold status doesn't seem to offer anything out of the ordinary. With the new changes, it would appear that I will not be able to renew the Gold status, so, Mr Weber, you can expect one less customer.
And as a marketing director, please change your tagline of "LH, there's no better way to fly". With the new changes in the M&M program, this statement borders on being libellous. Furthermore, have you ever flown eco transatlantic in LH? Pathetic.
The reason I invested all flights on *A/LH was because I was annoyed by the BA Exec club's program. Now it would appear that the LH MM program is going the same way; reward the rich and those lucky enough to have F/C tickets bought by their company and punish those who fly economy/on low fares, irrelevant of how often they do so.
Personally, I never fly F or intercontinental C and have somehow managed to get to Gold status via flying economy, which, as you may imagine, means a hell of a lot of flights. In some respects, you could argue that people like me are the true loyal fans. Let's face it, if you can afford F/C tickets, you can afford to fly with any main carrier; the products at that level are pretty much the same. The fact that I have invested all my flight expense into one carrier in order to pool miles and benefits now seems to be irrelevant to LH. Come August 1, the amount of miles awarded for cheap eco fares will be pathetic. The question therefore Herr Weber (LH's CEO) is why should I continue to fly LH when I could fly EasyJet/Ryanair for a fraction of the price. I may not get a free drink or sandwich, but then you are not offering anything better. Yes, I will be Gold until 2006 and I can use the SEN lounges, but they are far too full at the best of times anyway and the Gold status doesn't seem to offer anything out of the ordinary. With the new changes, it would appear that I will not be able to renew the Gold status, so, Mr Weber, you can expect one less customer.
And as a marketing director, please change your tagline of "LH, there's no better way to fly". With the new changes in the M&M program, this statement borders on being libellous. Furthermore, have you ever flown eco transatlantic in LH? Pathetic.
Mar 21, 2004, 6:00 am
#159
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: BCT. Formerly known as attorney28
Programs: LH HON,BA GGL GfL,Hyatt LT Glob,Mrtt LT P,Hilt LT D,IC Amb,Acc P,GHA Tit,LHW Strlg,Sixt/Av/Hz D/Pres
Posts: 6,827
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by seanyjmuc:
The reason I invested all flights on *A/LH was because I was annoyed by the BA Exec club's program. Now it would appear that the LH MM program is going the same way; reward the rich and those lucky enough to have F/C tickets bought by their company and punish those who fly economy/on low fares, irrelevant of how often they do so.
Personally, I never fly F or intercontinental C and have somehow managed to get to Gold status via flying economy, which, as you may imagine, means a hell of a lot of flights. In some respects, you could argue that people like me are the true loyal fans. Let's face it, if you can afford F/C tickets, you can afford to fly with any main carrier; the products at that level are pretty much the same. The fact that I have invested all my flight expense into one carrier in order to pool miles and benefits now seems to be irrelevant to LH. Come August 1, the amount of miles awarded for cheap eco fares will be pathetic. The question therefore Herr Weber (LH's CEO) is why should I continue to fly LH when I could fly EasyJet/Ryanair for a fraction of the price. I may not get a free drink or sandwich, but then you are not offering anything better. </font>
The reason I invested all flights on *A/LH was because I was annoyed by the BA Exec club's program. Now it would appear that the LH MM program is going the same way; reward the rich and those lucky enough to have F/C tickets bought by their company and punish those who fly economy/on low fares, irrelevant of how often they do so.
Personally, I never fly F or intercontinental C and have somehow managed to get to Gold status via flying economy, which, as you may imagine, means a hell of a lot of flights. In some respects, you could argue that people like me are the true loyal fans. Let's face it, if you can afford F/C tickets, you can afford to fly with any main carrier; the products at that level are pretty much the same. The fact that I have invested all my flight expense into one carrier in order to pool miles and benefits now seems to be irrelevant to LH. Come August 1, the amount of miles awarded for cheap eco fares will be pathetic. The question therefore Herr Weber (LH's CEO) is why should I continue to fly LH when I could fly EasyJet/Ryanair for a fraction of the price. I may not get a free drink or sandwich, but then you are not offering anything better. </font>
125 miles for W fares?
Food service not better than on Air Berlin or the like?
Reduced leg space in economy?
No more upgrades on "cheap" economy fares (in reality, they are still not that cheap!)?
930 Euro for an economy flight from MUC to CDG?
To some markets, like Scandinavia, LH/SAS have a quasi-monopoly, and they are charging outrageous prices, even in economy.
What's next, getting smacked with a baseball bat every time you fly economy on LH?
It is becoming practically impossible to get any benefit from flying economy other than lounge access, which will be shared with many comped passengers! You earn practically no miles, you cannot upgrade anymore, you have to squeeze yourself into a seat with ridiculously little leg room and you get less food than on the discount carriers, where at least you can buy more food/drinks for a reasonable fee.
To be doing this in times where many companies are restricting their employees to flying economy is a kick in the face of the many people who have no other choice but to fly LH economy.
And another thing, disallowing upgrades from "cheap" economy fares is also unacceptable. Let's face it, one of the main benefits of a frequent flyer program is that you can earn miles on business flights and then draw a benefit from it when you fly for leisure. Many of us are (still) in the situation that we fly business class on company travel, but we surely do not/cannot pay for business class on leisure travel. After having worked hard the whole year and having racked up miles by traveling for our company back and forth, we would love to get that reasonably priced economy ticket to a nice destination, let's say Florida, and use our hard-earned miles to upgrade to business class, no matter what we paid for the economy ticket.
After all, remember, we are not taking away inventory that was going to be sold for full-fare C!!!!
Now, LH is completely prohibiting that, which is nothing but a slap in the face!!! What do they expect us to do, buy a business class seat for a vacation trip? Or an economy ticket that is almost as expensive?! That is ridiculous!
THIS right there is one of the worst parts of the changes!
Not to mention that things get overly complicated because one has to concern oneself with the different booking classes when making a booking, which are often not even disclosed until you actually book the ticket in many booking engines!!!!!!!
Overall, I am most upset with LH for how it treats leisure economy flyers (which is almost everyone unless you really are rich enough not to care at all about spending your money for a business or first class flight for a vacation trip!).
I will say it again, they kick us in the face.
If I had any say at my company, which so far books only business class tickets for us, even though most of the travel is intra-German/intra-European, I would urge them to just book discount carriers instead, which offer quite flexible economy (often one-way tickets without penalty). There is no real difference in service quality. Now, my main incentive for earning miles (to be able to use them for upgrades on reasonably priced economy tickets) is simply gone, so why even bother.
LH is treating the economy flyers like sh!t, and they are doing it quite openly. But even business travelers (on company travel) are (discounted) economy travelers on leisure travel, and they will NOT appreciate being treated like that.
Mar 21, 2004, 11:14 am
#160
Moderator, Hilton Honors
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: on a short leash
Programs: some
Posts: 71,422
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by deneru:
The only website that offers the option to choose between cheap fare and almost no miles and 'normal' fares and miles it's SQ.
</font>
The only website that offers the option to choose between cheap fare and almost no miles and 'normal' fares and miles it's SQ.
</font>
The cheapest fare category isnt mileage earning but is easily identified when booking by the name (Smart Saver) and also clearly stated in the terms and conditions. The discount economy category earning reduced mileage is also easily identified (Flexi Saver) and full economy (Fully Flexi).