Anyone know why OS87 VIE-JFK 12MAY diverted to BFS?
May 12, 2023, 5:18 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC, CDG, NCE
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 2,634
Anyone know why OS87 VIE-JFK 12MAY diverted to BFS?
Friends are supposed to be on 88 tonight but their plane ain't here.
(shrug)
Hoping to get them a hotel room and taxis covered, but would love to know the reason for the diversion to see if they can call it extraordinary/exempt from EC261.
Thanks!
(shrug)
Hoping to get them a hotel room and taxis covered, but would love to know the reason for the diversion to see if they can call it extraordinary/exempt from EC261.
Thanks!
May 12, 2023, 5:28 pm
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2010
Programs: AA
Posts: 14,743
No matter the reason for the divert, duty of care always applies.
May 12, 2023, 5:54 pm
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC, CDG, NCE
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 2,634
Never can keep this straight.... Do "extraordinary circumstances" not mean they can deny reimbursement?
Thanks though....they're going to need to spend anyway and will just have to make the claIm.
Amazing that 5 hours after the inbound aircraft landed in BFS the app and LH telephone support still show the flight as on time.
Thanks though....they're going to need to spend anyway and will just have to make the claIm.
Amazing that 5 hours after the inbound aircraft landed in BFS the app and LH telephone support still show the flight as on time.
May 12, 2023, 10:32 pm
#4
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,756
I guess OS has either put all the passengers in a hotel in BFS yesterday or rebooked them on other flights, as the aircraft is still there. They sent an A321 overnight from VIE that has landed in BFS at 4:00AM and is due to depart back to Vienna at 5:45AM - I guess either to bring the passengers back, bring new crew or engineers/spare parts. All just speculation though.
A321 flight:
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/a...e-lbf#3043b491
A321 flight:
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/a...e-lbf#3043b491
May 12, 2023, 11:33 pm
#5
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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I think the OP was inquiring about the pax in NYC for the return flight to VIE.
Yes the duty of care also applies for these pax and reasonable expenses should be reimbursed by OS. As for hotel pax would need to inquire with the airport staff first whether OS will book hotel/provide vouchers etc before making reservations on their own. If living in NYC area go home once it is clear that you will not be able to travel to tonight
Yes the duty of care also applies for these pax and reasonable expenses should be reimbursed by OS. As for hotel pax would need to inquire with the airport staff first whether OS will book hotel/provide vouchers etc before making reservations on their own. If living in NYC area go home once it is clear that you will not be able to travel to tonight
May 13, 2023, 12:39 am
#6
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: NT Australia
Programs: QF WP
Posts: 4,160
Hopefully this means something to someone
* OPERATIONAL FLIGHT INFO * OS 87 -1 FR 12MAY23
CITY INFO HOUR (LOCAL)
VIE AIRCRAFT FORCED TO RETURN
FLIGHT CANCELLED 0100
D/T MED DIV ON MAY12TH
*1A PLANNED FLIGHT INFO* OS 87 -1 FR 12MAY23 ASM
APT ARR DY DEP DY CLASS/MEAL EQP GRND EFT TTL
VIE 1630 FR JCDZP/MS G/M 76W 9:35
EN/M YBMUH/MS
QVWS/MS TLK/M
JFK 2005 FR 9:35
COMMENTS-
1.VIE JFK - DEPARTS TERMINAL 3
1.VIE JFK - DEPARTS TERMINAL 3
2.VIE JFK - ARRIVES TERMINAL 1
3.VIE JFK - CHECK-IN /AUSTRIAN STAR ALLIANCE TERMINAL 3
4.VIE JFK - 9/ NON-SMOKING
5.VIE JFK - SECURED FLIGHT
6.VIE JFK - ET/ ELECTRONIC TKT CANDIDATE
7.VIE JFK - PLS INFO PAX RE MANDATORY SUBMISSION OF ALL
8.VIE JFK - BOOKING DATA TO U.S AUTHORITIES PRIOR DEP
9.VIE JFK - SSR DOCS DOCO DOCA CUSTOMS INFO RQSTD BY LAW
10.VIE JFK - PLS ADD PAX MOBILE CTC FOR IRREG COMMUNICATION
11.VIE JFK - C24E30M157
12.VIE JFK - CO2/PAX* 389.24 KG ECO, 778.48 KG PRE
(*):SOURCE:ICAO CARBON EMISSIONS CALCULATOR
CONFIGURATION-
76W C 24 E 30 M 157
>
Comments:
DOOS87/12MAY* OPERATIONAL FLIGHT INFO * OS 87 -1 FR 12MAY23
CITY INFO HOUR (LOCAL)
VIE AIRCRAFT FORCED TO RETURN
FLIGHT CANCELLED 0100
D/T MED DIV ON MAY12TH
*1A PLANNED FLIGHT INFO* OS 87 -1 FR 12MAY23 ASM
APT ARR DY DEP DY CLASS/MEAL EQP GRND EFT TTL
VIE 1630 FR JCDZP/MS G/M 76W 9:35
EN/M YBMUH/MS
QVWS/MS TLK/M
JFK 2005 FR 9:35
COMMENTS-
1.VIE JFK - DEPARTS TERMINAL 3
1.VIE JFK - DEPARTS TERMINAL 3
2.VIE JFK - ARRIVES TERMINAL 1
3.VIE JFK - CHECK-IN /AUSTRIAN STAR ALLIANCE TERMINAL 3
4.VIE JFK - 9/ NON-SMOKING
5.VIE JFK - SECURED FLIGHT
6.VIE JFK - ET/ ELECTRONIC TKT CANDIDATE
7.VIE JFK - PLS INFO PAX RE MANDATORY SUBMISSION OF ALL
8.VIE JFK - BOOKING DATA TO U.S AUTHORITIES PRIOR DEP
9.VIE JFK - SSR DOCS DOCO DOCA CUSTOMS INFO RQSTD BY LAW
10.VIE JFK - PLS ADD PAX MOBILE CTC FOR IRREG COMMUNICATION
11.VIE JFK - C24E30M157
12.VIE JFK - CO2/PAX* 389.24 KG ECO, 778.48 KG PRE
(*):SOURCE:ICAO CARBON EMISSIONS CALCULATOR
CONFIGURATION-
76W C 24 E 30 M 157
>
May 13, 2023, 2:08 am
#8
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: LH M&M, BA EC, DL SM
Posts: 5,748
VIE AIRCRAFT FORCED TO RETURN
FLIGHT CANCELLED 0100
D/T MED DIV ON MAY12TH
This means that duty of care applies, but most likely no EU261 payments, as the reason for the cancellation was "caused by extraordinary circumstanceswhich could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken." At least that is what OS is going to say.
One could argue that they could have ferried an empty plane to JFK to avoid the cancellation of the return flight, but that would be kinda unfair and probably not successful.
FLIGHT CANCELLED 0100
D/T MED DIV ON MAY12TH
This means that duty of care applies, but most likely no EU261 payments, as the reason for the cancellation was "caused by extraordinary circumstanceswhich could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken." At least that is what OS is going to say.
One could argue that they could have ferried an empty plane to JFK to avoid the cancellation of the return flight, but that would be kinda unfair and probably not successful.
May 13, 2023, 3:10 am
#9
Join Date: Feb 2022
Programs: OS SEN, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 319
Guess what my flight is? 😂
Yesterday I checked this and the plane had a completely different set of flights (VIE-HAM-VIE) before CHQ. I guess a lot of the planes had their schedules changed because of this disruption. 2hr delay for me now. They claim we will get there in just under 2hr late, but I hope not so I can claim my own EU261 now 😉
May 13, 2023, 4:17 am
#10
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 292
OS87 might have extraordinary circumstances due to the medical. OS88 not according to the established case law of the ECJ. The onward flight BFS-JFK was not performed due to an overweight landing which is technical, moreover, OS had sufficient time, for example, to procure a wet lease for the return flight.
The same applies for OS87/88 the day later which was also cancelled.
The same applies for OS87/88 the day later which was also cancelled.
May 13, 2023, 5:12 am
#11
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,089
VIE AIRCRAFT FORCED TO RETURN
FLIGHT CANCELLED 0100
D/T MED DIV ON MAY12TH
This means that duty of care applies, but most likely no EU261 payments, as the reason for the cancellation was "caused by extraordinary circumstanceswhich could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken." At least that is what OS is going to say.
One could argue that they could have ferried an empty plane to JFK to avoid the cancellation of the return flight, but that would be kinda unfair and probably not successful.
FLIGHT CANCELLED 0100
D/T MED DIV ON MAY12TH
This means that duty of care applies, but most likely no EU261 payments, as the reason for the cancellation was "caused by extraordinary circumstanceswhich could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken." At least that is what OS is going to say.
One could argue that they could have ferried an empty plane to JFK to avoid the cancellation of the return flight, but that would be kinda unfair and probably not successful.
Compensation is not due per the nature of diversion.
Guess what my flight is? 😂
Yesterday I checked this and the plane had a completely different set of flights (VIE-HAM-VIE) before CHQ. I guess a lot of the planes had their schedules changed because of this disruption. 2hr delay for me now. They claim we will get there in just under 2hr late, but I hope not so I can claim my own EU261 now 😉
Very often the shuffling of planes is exactly to minimize impact of the delay, on one side it is better to have 2x 2h delay than 1x 4h delay due to compensation payment, but also to minimize lost connections. Chania feels like the type of destination that would be heavily p2p.
OS87 might have extraordinary circumstances due to the medical. OS88 not according to the established case law of the ECJ. The onward flight BFS-JFK was not performed due to an overweight landing which is technical, moreover, OS had sufficient time, for example, to procure a wet lease for the return flight.
The same applies for OS87/88 the day later which was also cancelled.
The same applies for OS87/88 the day later which was also cancelled.
You are also right that the overweight landing and following inspection is a technical event, however due to the reason for the overweight landing, OS can't be held liable. Otherwise you are literally making OS pay extra because they did not jeopardize the life of a passenger.
May 13, 2023, 6:40 am
#12
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC, CDG, NCE
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 2,634
I was indeed, thank you.
Also appreciate the detailed info.
(My friends don't really care, but I'm the AV-geek, so it's fun to know.)
I hope so but I do see the distinction <b>Fabo.sk</b> is making. They'll probably make the claim anyway and see what happens.
Thanks FT family!
Also appreciate the detailed info.
(My friends don't really care, but I'm the AV-geek, so it's fun to know.)
I think the OP was inquiring about the pax in NYC for the return flight to VIE.
Yes the duty of care also applies for these pax and reasonable expenses should be reimbursed by OS. As for hotel pax would need to inquire with the airport staff first whether OS will book hotel/provide vouchers etc before making reservations on their own. If living in NYC area go home once it is clear that you will not be able to travel to tonight
Yes the duty of care also applies for these pax and reasonable expenses should be reimbursed by OS. As for hotel pax would need to inquire with the airport staff first whether OS will book hotel/provide vouchers etc before making reservations on their own. If living in NYC area go home once it is clear that you will not be able to travel to tonight
OS87 might have extraordinary circumstances due to the medical. OS88 not according to the established case law of the ECJ. The onward flight BFS-JFK was not performed due to an overweight landing which is technical, moreover, OS had sufficient time, for example, to procure a wet lease for the return flight.
The same applies for OS87/88 the day later which was also cancelled.
The same applies for OS87/88 the day later which was also cancelled.
May 13, 2023, 7:29 am
#13
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denmark
Programs: TK Elite
Posts: 11,853
OS87 might have extraordinary circumstances due to the medical. OS88 not according to the established case law of the ECJ. The onward flight BFS-JFK was not performed due to an overweight landing which is technical, moreover, OS had sufficient time, for example, to procure a wet lease for the return flight.
The argument that OS should have wetleased another aircraft at JFK or ferried an empty aircraft to JFK, will not fly.
May 13, 2023, 8:56 am
#14
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: LH M&M, BA EC, DL SM
Posts: 5,748
Good luck with that argument. It has been established by ECJ that also knock-on effects an earlier delayed flight will exempt the carrier from liability to pay compensation. The inbound VIE-JFK flight having a medical diversion, leading to a delay of the return flight, JFK-VIE clearly falls in this category.
The argument that OS should have wetleased another aircraft at JFK or ferried an empty aircraft to JFK, will not fly.
The argument that OS should have wetleased another aircraft at JFK or ferried an empty aircraft to JFK, will not fly.
May 13, 2023, 9:36 am
#15
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 292
We will find out for sure with the passenger right agencies and financers to be involved in this case.
Condor usually uses wetleases in those cases to keep any delay below 3hrs. OS at least sent an A321 same night to BFS.
For the subsequent flights there would be always an empty leg, if you take a US ACMI or one close to VIE, this is just how wetleases work.
Euroatlantic would have been a good choice, B763 available in LIS and also able to operate OS87/88 the next days. OS chose to cancel, let's see what the legal outcome will be.
Condor usually uses wetleases in those cases to keep any delay below 3hrs. OS at least sent an A321 same night to BFS.
For the subsequent flights there would be always an empty leg, if you take a US ACMI or one close to VIE, this is just how wetleases work.
Euroatlantic would have been a good choice, B763 available in LIS and also able to operate OS87/88 the next days. OS chose to cancel, let's see what the legal outcome will be.