Lufthansa First Class Lounge [FCL] restart
May 28, 2021, 12:17 pm
#346
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Up in the air
Programs: LH HON, BA LT Gold, AFKL ULTI, WOH Lifetime Globalist, Bonvoy Ambassador
Posts: 385
There is many HON's outside of Germany (I was told its more than inside Germany). All your points on German business people returning is true, but that does not fill your premium product on the big birds LH uses. For that you need loyal connecting passengers. And LH totally disregards us. In fact LH is much worse now than my other options because they stopped caring and their service has just disappeared entirely.
Emirates for example is courting me literally once a month currently and they promise to deliver now on the ground short connect for me in Dubai. But I fly a lot also to the US and Latam and Emirates is not really an option.
So please stop using the expression "belly rub". I need these services as it helps me to make my life easier.
May 28, 2021, 12:19 pm
#347
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: ±38,000 feet
Programs: LH HON, BA GGL, AF Plat, EK Plat
Posts: 6,428
Not all of that is true.
FCT actually was built and opened for HON program launch.
And as I was told many times in FCT (when it was open I usually did not use FCL, asked every time driver to bring me from my connecting flight to closest exit to FCT), the main customer for FCT was HON Circle member and only about 30% of customers was just F pax.
Of course, many HONs also fly F.
Saving on prime regular clients was never working anywhere. Saving on non regular clients may work.
I also second to Chris63, that this is ridiculous to talk to influencers and bloggers in place of talking at first to most imporatnt customers and revenue makers.
Influecers and bloggers my attract some saver-flyers -- "cheap tickets to Mallorca" and maybe also explain, why BoB concept is good. But all the time classical airlines did earn most of the profit from the front of cabin.
Basic knowledge: just 20% of customers generate 80% of revenue is golden rule. And from that 20% of customers as well just 20%.
All logic of HON program was to attract high-spenders. It is ridiculous to hope, that those people will fly just most direct route and will choose Lufthansa anyway. NO. It is about service, service and one more time service, why most of HON members decided to become HON Circle members. I am quite sure, that most of airlines was and will be more than happy to accomodate those pax on their planes.
AF are doing currently very clever move by keeping FC services open. They may attract many currently HON customers. And some longhaul pax will move over to AF
LOT is doing great job by offering in WAW HON Services not available in FRA. And for intra-EU flights some HONs will now choose LO not LH.
I really hope, that LH management will unerstand it before it's too late.
It is basic knowledge, that keeping high end customers is always cheaper than buidl new high-end-spending loyal customers base.
I am happy that HON Circle Service still do function. They are very helpful and able to things never possible for any travel agencies (and also for LH local outstations).
I am happy that on long haul flights this year all the crews had very nice approach to me as HON member. Also looks for me that more intra-EU crews started to show attention and respect to HON's.
But no car in FRA and no lounge -- that is not acceptable and very difficult to tolerate.
FCT actually was built and opened for HON program launch.
And as I was told many times in FCT (when it was open I usually did not use FCL, asked every time driver to bring me from my connecting flight to closest exit to FCT), the main customer for FCT was HON Circle member and only about 30% of customers was just F pax.
Of course, many HONs also fly F.
Saving on prime regular clients was never working anywhere. Saving on non regular clients may work.
I also second to Chris63, that this is ridiculous to talk to influencers and bloggers in place of talking at first to most imporatnt customers and revenue makers.
Influecers and bloggers my attract some saver-flyers -- "cheap tickets to Mallorca" and maybe also explain, why BoB concept is good. But all the time classical airlines did earn most of the profit from the front of cabin.
Basic knowledge: just 20% of customers generate 80% of revenue is golden rule. And from that 20% of customers as well just 20%.
All logic of HON program was to attract high-spenders. It is ridiculous to hope, that those people will fly just most direct route and will choose Lufthansa anyway. NO. It is about service, service and one more time service, why most of HON members decided to become HON Circle members. I am quite sure, that most of airlines was and will be more than happy to accomodate those pax on their planes.
AF are doing currently very clever move by keeping FC services open. They may attract many currently HON customers. And some longhaul pax will move over to AF
LOT is doing great job by offering in WAW HON Services not available in FRA. And for intra-EU flights some HONs will now choose LO not LH.
I really hope, that LH management will unerstand it before it's too late.
It is basic knowledge, that keeping high end customers is always cheaper than buidl new high-end-spending loyal customers base.
I am happy that HON Circle Service still do function. They are very helpful and able to things never possible for any travel agencies (and also for LH local outstations).
I am happy that on long haul flights this year all the crews had very nice approach to me as HON member. Also looks for me that more intra-EU crews started to show attention and respect to HON's.
But no car in FRA and no lounge -- that is not acceptable and very difficult to tolerate.
May 28, 2021, 1:09 pm
#348
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Stoke on Trent, UK (MAN ), BUE, BKK, DBV
Programs: LH HON***,UA,BA.EK Gold,AV.
Posts: 11,646
One big problem with AF F is that despite any ultimate status unless flying F you dont get the F treatment or lounge!. And believe me connecting even in J through CDG can (or used to) be a messy thing... So HON seems to offer the best between luxury (in normal times) and service when not-flying F.
Other airlines are doing better, although that’s hardly a challenge considering LH failings...
May 28, 2021, 1:18 pm
#349
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Stoke on Trent, UK (MAN ), BUE, BKK, DBV
Programs: LH HON***,UA,BA.EK Gold,AV.
Posts: 11,646
May 28, 2021, 1:39 pm
#350
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: ZRH
Programs: LX HON***, FB Silver, BA Silver, Bonvoy Gold, Hyatt GP, Hertz Gold, GHA Black
Posts: 830
May 28, 2021, 1:56 pm
#351
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: FRA
Posts: 582
And anyway, offering special and seemless service to paying customers is not "belly rubbing", it is something that loyal customers pay a lot for. I really dont get your point....
May 28, 2021, 3:20 pm
#352
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,184
Pampering of top customers is probably a more apt description. The entire HON circle is a customer loyalty program for the perceived top 0.05%. Unlike an F ticket, where you can still make a case that you are not getting what you paid for, the HON features are something the group decided to give, and is not obliged to continue no matter what.
LH has decided that a consistent F product and the HON circle benefits is not part of their daily operations while they are digging their way out of the terrible shock the pandemic gave to it. Currently they are only operating 30% of their 2019 capacity and still loosing millions each day. They had to borrow money in the market and have a 6bn € credit line from the government to back it up. They had to ask the govt to take significant stake in their equity to get this line of credit.
What some of you are saying is that LH should restore the former glory of the FC pleasure temples. What I'm saying is that I don't think the moment has come yet. There is a large team at LH trying to find the right moment to *ReStart* (their project name) which part of the operations at what point. The numerous setbacks all of us experienced since the end of the last summer has probably made everyone cautious. Your guess is as good as mine
LH has decided that a consistent F product and the HON circle benefits is not part of their daily operations while they are digging their way out of the terrible shock the pandemic gave to it. Currently they are only operating 30% of their 2019 capacity and still loosing millions each day. They had to borrow money in the market and have a 6bn € credit line from the government to back it up. They had to ask the govt to take significant stake in their equity to get this line of credit.
What some of you are saying is that LH should restore the former glory of the FC pleasure temples. What I'm saying is that I don't think the moment has come yet. There is a large team at LH trying to find the right moment to *ReStart* (their project name) which part of the operations at what point. The numerous setbacks all of us experienced since the end of the last summer has probably made everyone cautious. Your guess is as good as mine
May 28, 2021, 3:39 pm
#353
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Stoke on Trent, UK (MAN ), BUE, BKK, DBV
Programs: LH HON***,UA,BA.EK Gold,AV.
Posts: 11,646
Pampering of top customers is probably a more apt description. The entire HON circle is a customer loyalty program for the perceived top 0.05%. Unlike an F ticket, where you can still make a case that you are not getting what you paid for, the HON features are something the group decided to give, and is not obliged to continue no matter what.
LH has decided that a consistent F product and the HON circle benefits is not part of their daily operations while they are digging their way out of the terrible shock the pandemic gave to it.
What some of you are saying is that LH should restore the former glory of the FC pleasure temples.
LH has decided that a consistent F product and the HON circle benefits is not part of their daily operations while they are digging their way out of the terrible shock the pandemic gave to it.
What some of you are saying is that LH should restore the former glory of the FC pleasure temples.
Pampering, I paid by flying in C & F to obtain HON benefits which were defined & promised.
My business has suffered massively because of this pandemic, however I still provided my customers with the service I originally promised, it’s also arguably contractual
Who here asked for ‘ pleasure temples’ ??
I want a seamless travel experience as per the still promised service pledges described in my M&M account !
May 28, 2021, 5:23 pm
#354
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: CH / NL
Programs: LX HON, FB Platinum for life, Sixt/Hilton Diamond
Posts: 189
What is still strange to me is that LH is talking to bloggers&Co, but not to their regular customers. If I remember correctly there was no communication at all for more than half a year. Remember, these are customers that have been flying extremely often on expensive tickets with them, and they do not even send a "status update" or whatever - instead they are communicatin with influencers only. A very bizzare way of acting from my personal point of view.....
May 29, 2021, 1:03 am
#355
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Up in the air
Programs: LH HON, BA LT Gold, AFKL ULTI, WOH Lifetime Globalist, Bonvoy Ambassador
Posts: 385
Pampering of top customers is probably a more apt description.
The entire HON circle is a customer loyalty program for the perceived top 0.05%. Unlike an F ticket, where you can still make a case that you are not getting what you paid for, the HON features are something the group decided to give, and is not obliged to continue no matter what.
What some of you are saying is that LH should restore the former glory of the FC pleasure temples.
The entire HON circle is a customer loyalty program for the perceived top 0.05%. Unlike an F ticket, where you can still make a case that you are not getting what you paid for, the HON features are something the group decided to give, and is not obliged to continue no matter what.
What some of you are saying is that LH should restore the former glory of the FC pleasure temples.
I could not care less whether they open the FCT or FCL I don't need that. A HON corner in the normal Business Lounge would be more than fine for me. Because I don't plan to go there in the first place. I prefer to land in the hub and to be gone again 60 minutes later. Lounge time is wasted time.
For the few times a year F passenger this is different. They want the indulgence. Me no, I just need confidence in a hub.
What you also don't seem to understand is that LH needs to offer this service as their entire business model is based on hub services. They don't have a locked in audience like AF, KL or BA. German customers are only part of the model with which alone they wont be able to maintain their network. And I refuse to believe that people from Hamburg or Dusseldorf areas are locked in in any way. The LH hard product is outdated, service standards are very low. Why would I fly with them if they cant give me the benefit of confidence in a quicker connection any more?!
May 29, 2021, 1:18 am
#356
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Geneva
Programs: LX SEN, AFKL Platinum, BA Bronze,
Posts: 5,641
It is clear that there are (at least) two very different types on HON/F customers: those that control their own budget and timings and therefore choose to fly LH Group from/via one of the hubs partly because of the ground services, and those that are subject to corporate rules that for the time being include travel bans or restrictions. I'm very much part of the latter group, not having set foot on a plane for more than a year now.
It is, I believe, due to (former) customers like me that LH has chosen to suspend F ground services and close F lounges. Their calculations probably show that the number of corporate travelers for whom this suspension makes no difference is far larger than the number of people who don't choose LH due to a lack of such facilities. Or better put: the revenue they now forego due to the autonomous travelers not choosing LH is less than the cost of the F/HON infrastructure.
Clearly their fleet planning decisions have impacted this equation: fewer F seats means fewer potential users of the F/HON services too. But, again speculating, similar calculations must have played a role in the fleet decisions: had there been sufficient numbers of F travelers to keep more F seats and revenue, then the decisions might have been different. However, the lack of corporate travel suggests that this was not possible.
I totally understand the frustration experienced by those who are still/again flying and not getting what LH promised pre-pandemic. However, I also appreciate that when I am allowed to travel again (and probably at much lower frequency, but that's another story...) LH Group will try and capture as much of my business as possible. They expect corporate travel to be much lower than it was, and as they were geared towards corporate travel, they must realize that their captive travelers from DE/CH won't automatically come back to an inferior C product and poor FRA experience automatically.
Lack of communication about the new qualifying system is probably a symptom of continuous review, so I expect another year of extensions before further tweaks are announced. I am also expecting a review of the F ground services and lounges, now that fewer F seats and fewer HON are anticipated in the future. If LH negotiates a special security channel with Fraport, I'd fear that the FCT could go but the FCL and car transfers will remain for F pax. Whether HON will remain as is probably depends on how corporate travel will recover.
It is, I believe, due to (former) customers like me that LH has chosen to suspend F ground services and close F lounges. Their calculations probably show that the number of corporate travelers for whom this suspension makes no difference is far larger than the number of people who don't choose LH due to a lack of such facilities. Or better put: the revenue they now forego due to the autonomous travelers not choosing LH is less than the cost of the F/HON infrastructure.
Clearly their fleet planning decisions have impacted this equation: fewer F seats means fewer potential users of the F/HON services too. But, again speculating, similar calculations must have played a role in the fleet decisions: had there been sufficient numbers of F travelers to keep more F seats and revenue, then the decisions might have been different. However, the lack of corporate travel suggests that this was not possible.
I totally understand the frustration experienced by those who are still/again flying and not getting what LH promised pre-pandemic. However, I also appreciate that when I am allowed to travel again (and probably at much lower frequency, but that's another story...) LH Group will try and capture as much of my business as possible. They expect corporate travel to be much lower than it was, and as they were geared towards corporate travel, they must realize that their captive travelers from DE/CH won't automatically come back to an inferior C product and poor FRA experience automatically.
Lack of communication about the new qualifying system is probably a symptom of continuous review, so I expect another year of extensions before further tweaks are announced. I am also expecting a review of the F ground services and lounges, now that fewer F seats and fewer HON are anticipated in the future. If LH negotiates a special security channel with Fraport, I'd fear that the FCT could go but the FCL and car transfers will remain for F pax. Whether HON will remain as is probably depends on how corporate travel will recover.
May 30, 2021, 11:59 am
#357
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Los Angeles & Orange County, CA
Programs: Wouldn't you like to know?!
Posts: 23,822
I totally agree!
Sheesh, I came here to see if the FCT/FCL is reopening. Instead, I am getting the "Fly AF LP, they serve food so I can withdraw my social security to buy a ticket that I can afford to reposition from MEX and post here so I can gain more fanboys to like my posts on FT, only idi*ts would fly LH for not having FCT/FCL open, I know about HON more than anyone ever will" rhetoric.
Wait, this post only has 5 likes? Time to gather more so you all can be the true MEAN GIRLS you aspired to be in high school! Go class of 1915!!
Moderator, I think you should suspend them just for have different opinions than you....isn't that what moderators are supposed to do?
Oh Flyertalk how I miss thou.....
Oh don't mind me. Continue your on-topic discussion about whether or not FCL/FCT will reopen! You clearly are all the VIP flyers LH intends on capturing!
Sheesh, I came here to see if the FCT/FCL is reopening. Instead, I am getting the "Fly AF LP, they serve food so I can withdraw my social security to buy a ticket that I can afford to reposition from MEX and post here so I can gain more fanboys to like my posts on FT, only idi*ts would fly LH for not having FCT/FCL open, I know about HON more than anyone ever will" rhetoric.
Wait, this post only has 5 likes? Time to gather more so you all can be the true MEAN GIRLS you aspired to be in high school! Go class of 1915!!
Moderator, I think you should suspend them just for have different opinions than you....isn't that what moderators are supposed to do?
Oh Flyertalk how I miss thou.....
Oh don't mind me. Continue your on-topic discussion about whether or not FCL/FCT will reopen! You clearly are all the VIP flyers LH intends on capturing!
May 30, 2021, 3:35 pm
#358
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Stoke on Trent, UK (MAN ), BUE, BKK, DBV
Programs: LH HON***,UA,BA.EK Gold,AV.
Posts: 11,646
I totally agree!
Sheesh, I came here to see if the FCT/FCL is reopening. Instead, I am getting the "Fly AF LP, they serve food so I can withdraw my social security to buy a ticket that I can afford to reposition from MEX and post here so I can gain more fanboys to like my posts on FT, only idi*ts would fly LH for not having FCT/FCL open, I know about HON more than anyone ever will" rhetoric.
Wait, this post only has 5 likes? Time to gather more so you all can be the true MEAN GIRLS you aspired to be in high school! Go class of 1915!!
Moderator, I think you should suspend them just for have different opinions than you....isn't that what moderators are supposed to do?
Oh Flyertalk how I miss thou.....
Oh don't mind me. Continue your on-topic discussion about whether or not FCL/FCT will reopen! You clearly are all the VIP flyers LH intends on capturing!
Sheesh, I came here to see if the FCT/FCL is reopening. Instead, I am getting the "Fly AF LP, they serve food so I can withdraw my social security to buy a ticket that I can afford to reposition from MEX and post here so I can gain more fanboys to like my posts on FT, only idi*ts would fly LH for not having FCT/FCL open, I know about HON more than anyone ever will" rhetoric.
Wait, this post only has 5 likes? Time to gather more so you all can be the true MEAN GIRLS you aspired to be in high school! Go class of 1915!!
Moderator, I think you should suspend them just for have different opinions than you....isn't that what moderators are supposed to do?
Oh Flyertalk how I miss thou.....
Oh don't mind me. Continue your on-topic discussion about whether or not FCL/FCT will reopen! You clearly are all the VIP flyers LH intends on capturing!
Wow, can you recommend what your smoking ? Someone, somewhere might be interested
May 31, 2021, 4:02 am
#359
Moderator: SAS
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: BLL & CPH & ZRH
Programs: LX, SK EBD (*G)
Posts: 3,153
I can understand the furstration of some people here, but I must agree it could come across as being a bit entitled to outsiders tbh. I mean most HONs here are actually quite pleasant compared to most I know IRL or have seen in lounges or on flights, which take themselves way too seriously.
Well, I don't know, for me personally I don't feel it's worth it getting agitated over the lack of service or lounges currently, there's enough stressful stuff going on in the world already. But then again, I haven't set foot on a plane since September 2019... My advice, which really isn't meant in a demeaning way at all, is to just take a step back watch some Bob Ross and take it easy. Things will improve eventually and when they do we can all be happy.
Well, I for one am looking forward to when the FCL/FCT reopen, whenever that may be
I was thinking of using my open F ticket to SIN this autumn and be a bit creative with the routing. My idea was (KBP-)ZRH-LX-HKG-SQ-SIN-SQ-HND-NH-FRA-ZRH(-KBP)
Sadly SQ has suspended their A380 flights between HKG and SIN and afaik there is no F between SIN and HND currently :/ Plus it's not sure the lounges will be open. Not to mention I can't actually enter most of the mentioned places above :P
I really wanted to fly the new NH F once though... I guess it'll have to wait a bit longer.
So I guess my next F flight will be in June 2022 when I fly ZRH-MUC-FRA-JFK-GVA-ZRH, exactly to visit some fo the above mentioned lounges, which at that point will hopefully have opened again
And I'm looking forward to that
Well, I don't know, for me personally I don't feel it's worth it getting agitated over the lack of service or lounges currently, there's enough stressful stuff going on in the world already. But then again, I haven't set foot on a plane since September 2019... My advice, which really isn't meant in a demeaning way at all, is to just take a step back watch some Bob Ross and take it easy. Things will improve eventually and when they do we can all be happy.
Well, I for one am looking forward to when the FCL/FCT reopen, whenever that may be
I was thinking of using my open F ticket to SIN this autumn and be a bit creative with the routing. My idea was (KBP-)ZRH-LX-HKG-SQ-SIN-SQ-HND-NH-FRA-ZRH(-KBP)
Sadly SQ has suspended their A380 flights between HKG and SIN and afaik there is no F between SIN and HND currently :/ Plus it's not sure the lounges will be open. Not to mention I can't actually enter most of the mentioned places above :P
I really wanted to fly the new NH F once though... I guess it'll have to wait a bit longer.
So I guess my next F flight will be in June 2022 when I fly ZRH-MUC-FRA-JFK-GVA-ZRH, exactly to visit some fo the above mentioned lounges, which at that point will hopefully have opened again
And I'm looking forward to that
Last edited by Nick Art; May 31, 2021 at 4:13 am
May 31, 2021, 5:08 am
#360
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: FRA
Posts: 582
At least FCL A is opening tomorrow. Now lets hope that FCT will be back soon as well....