LH cancelation and rebooking rant
Feb 6, 2019, 7:42 am
#16
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: PVG, FRA, SEA, HEL
Programs: UA Premier Gold
Posts: 4,783
when the flight status for my flight changed to "canceled" without any explanation.
It doesn't matter whether OP opted for (2) or (3) -> the downgrade compensation has to be paid by LH nonetheless.
In fact, the OP has a voluntary choice whether to go for (2) or (3) by law. To argue because the OP has chosen (2), that's why it was a voluntary downgrade, that's why no EC261/2004 -> Forget it!
Last edited by warakorn; Feb 6, 2019 at 7:47 am
Feb 6, 2019, 7:53 am
#17
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
The flight of OP was cancelled. Hence, the OP may opt (1) to get a full refund, (2) a reroute at the earliest possible time, or (3) a reroute at a time of her convenience.
It doesn't matter whether OP opted for (2) or (3) -> the downgrade compensation has to be paid by LH nonetheless.
In fact, the OP has a voluntary choice whether to go for (2) or (3) by law. To argue because the OP has chosen (2), that's why it was a voluntary downgrade, that's why no EC261/2004 -> Forget it!
It doesn't matter whether OP opted for (2) or (3) -> the downgrade compensation has to be paid by LH nonetheless.
In fact, the OP has a voluntary choice whether to go for (2) or (3) by law. To argue because the OP has chosen (2), that's why it was a voluntary downgrade, that's why no EC261/2004 -> Forget it!
Passengers can and do accept reroutes with downgrades (bear in mind that E+ is not a class of service, it is extra leg room). Depending on one's needs, one might choose the more efficient reroute in a lower class of service or wait for the less efficient route, but in the originally-ticketed cabin.
This one has all the hallmarks of a passenger who allowed things to get out of hand and thus chose not to assert his clear passenger rights as to rebooking.
Feb 6, 2019, 9:18 am
#18
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: FR
Programs: FB Plat
Posts: 299
The flight of OP was cancelled. Hence, the OP may opt (1) to get a full refund, (2) a reroute at the earliest possible time, or (3) a reroute at a time of her convenience.
It doesn't matter whether OP opted for (2) or (3) -> the downgrade compensation has to be paid by LH nonetheless.
In fact, the OP has a voluntary choice whether to go for (2) or (3) by law. To argue because the OP has chosen (2), that's why it was a voluntary downgrade, that's why no EC261/2004 -> Forget it!
It doesn't matter whether OP opted for (2) or (3) -> the downgrade compensation has to be paid by LH nonetheless.
In fact, the OP has a voluntary choice whether to go for (2) or (3) by law. To argue because the OP has chosen (2), that's why it was a voluntary downgrade, that's why no EC261/2004 -> Forget it!
Interpretative Guidelines published by the EC (https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites...16)3502_en.pdf) precise:
When passengers are offered the option of continuation or re-routing of a journey, this must be ‘under comparable transport conditions’. Whether transport conditions are comparable can depend on a number of factors and must be decided on a case-by-case basis. Depending on the circumstances, the following good practices are recommended:
- if possible, passengers should not be downgraded to transport facilities of a lower class compared with the one on the reservation (in the event of downgrading, the compensation provided for in Article 10 applies);
- re-routing should be offered at no additional cost to the passenger, even where passengers are re-routed with another air carrier or on a different transport mode or in a higher class or at a higher fare than the one paid for the original service;
- reasonable efforts are to be made to avoid additional connections;
- when using another air carrier or an alternative mode of transport for the part of the journey not completed as planned, the total travel time should, if possible, be as reasonably close as possible to the scheduled travel time of the original journey in the same or higher class of carriage if necessary;
- if several flights are available with comparable timings, passengers having the right to re-routing should accept the offer of re-routing made by the carrier, including on those air carriers cooperating with the operating carrier;
- if assistance for people with disabilities or reduced mobility was booked for the original journey, such assistance should equally be available on the alternative route.
- if possible, passengers should not be downgraded to transport facilities of a lower class compared with the one on the reservation (in the event of downgrading, the compensation provided for in Article 10 applies);
- re-routing should be offered at no additional cost to the passenger, even where passengers are re-routed with another air carrier or on a different transport mode or in a higher class or at a higher fare than the one paid for the original service;
- reasonable efforts are to be made to avoid additional connections;
- when using another air carrier or an alternative mode of transport for the part of the journey not completed as planned, the total travel time should, if possible, be as reasonably close as possible to the scheduled travel time of the original journey in the same or higher class of carriage if necessary;
- if several flights are available with comparable timings, passengers having the right to re-routing should accept the offer of re-routing made by the carrier, including on those air carriers cooperating with the operating carrier;
- if assistance for people with disabilities or reduced mobility was booked for the original journey, such assistance should equally be available on the alternative route.
Feb 6, 2019, 10:03 am
#19
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: fwp blood diamond, dykwia uranium
Posts: 7,252
e+ on united is not considered premium economy. it's an economy seat with more humane leg room. but yes it does cost more, it still maps in regular fare economy bucket, and it's worth a try to claim on top of the 600 euro cash. this is a reasonable claim to make.
weather in usa is not an extraordinary circumstance either? if there's a blizzard in chicago, pax get a cot if they're lucky.
Feb 6, 2019, 10:56 am
#20
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: AGH
Posts: 5,979
As said, I had success claiming downgrade compensation in a similar case before. OP got nothing to lose. In the worst case OP can claim he was ill informed and rushed to a decision as the flight from LUX was closing.
Feb 6, 2019, 5:00 pm
#21
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 34
OP has either supplied incomplete or inaccurate information and that matters a great deal. Rather than worrying about pina coladas, it would be most helpful if OP would provide the exact and accurate details. Any discussion of compensation and alternatives really is not helpful until that point.
It was booked through LH --> i.e. premium economy. Sorry, I guess I mixed up the names. I am not a super frequent flyer. Mostly international, not much domestic (thank god, since domestic air travel has become truly miserable in the last 10 to 15 years imo). Every two month or so I have to go to Europe, which so far was always through LH premium economy, but I will look for alternatives for the next trip (any suggestions for alternatives to LH Premium Economy are welcome).
Based on the discussion here, I think I will try to ask for compensation and see what happens. Will post what comes out of it.
Feb 6, 2019, 9:25 pm
#23
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Stoke on Trent, UK (MAN ), BUE, BKK, DBV
Programs: LH HON***,UA,BA.EK Gold,AV.
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Feb 7, 2019, 7:43 am
#25
Join Date: Jul 2017
Programs: Miles & More, BA Executive Club
Posts: 751
I think in LUX there’s a way to get rebooked for any LH delays/cancellations st the ticketing desk.
on a slightly separate note, what are the rules if you’ve been rebooked and your original flight ends up departing on time after showing a delay?
on a slightly separate note, what are the rules if you’ve been rebooked and your original flight ends up departing on time after showing a delay?
May 29, 2019, 4:17 pm
#26
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 34
Wanted to give an update regarding the conclusion of this since I always wonder how these things turn out when I read the initial complaint but then the final result never gets posted.
It "only" took LH about 2.5 month to get back to me. I got an email that they weer referring the fare adjustment to their refund department and that they would give me 5,000 miles and more miles for my inconvenience. I have my frequent flyer miles through United, so I sent an email back pointing that out but never got a reply.
A few days ago a service rep from their Indian service (at least I assume so based on his accent) center with a super heavy accent I could barely understand called me and told me that they would refund me EUR 400 (I believe the standard fare difference between economy and premium economy for one flight leg) and I will need to send them copies of my boarding pass, drivers license, passport, bank account info, address, birth certificate, social security number, mothers maiden name, the name of the nurse that brought me into life, and the pin for my credit card (ok, i made a few of those up, but the amount of information they require seems a bit ridiculous since I assume they have most of that in their systems). What is up with that boarding pass requirement? Not sure if I still have it seeing that it is FOUR month after my flight ended....
Anyways, throughout the conversation the service rep never seemed very concerned about my experience or whether I am ok with that compensation or not, but made it sound like LH is being super generous with that offer. I asked about the 5K miles, but since i don't have a miles and more account he told me to go f.. myself (again not literally, but his tone was pretty clear "yeeaaaahhhh, since you are not a miles and more member we won't be able to give you any miles or anything beyond the fare difference")
Overall just a continuation of the general we don't give a hoot about your business attitude. This whole experience has totally destroyed my opinion of LH. There are probably lots of people who have good experiences with LH (I did too for the most part up to that point), I am just not in that camp anymore and will from now on try to avoid flying with them.
It "only" took LH about 2.5 month to get back to me. I got an email that they weer referring the fare adjustment to their refund department and that they would give me 5,000 miles and more miles for my inconvenience. I have my frequent flyer miles through United, so I sent an email back pointing that out but never got a reply.
A few days ago a service rep from their Indian service (at least I assume so based on his accent) center with a super heavy accent I could barely understand called me and told me that they would refund me EUR 400 (I believe the standard fare difference between economy and premium economy for one flight leg) and I will need to send them copies of my boarding pass, drivers license, passport, bank account info, address, birth certificate, social security number, mothers maiden name, the name of the nurse that brought me into life, and the pin for my credit card (ok, i made a few of those up, but the amount of information they require seems a bit ridiculous since I assume they have most of that in their systems). What is up with that boarding pass requirement? Not sure if I still have it seeing that it is FOUR month after my flight ended....
Anyways, throughout the conversation the service rep never seemed very concerned about my experience or whether I am ok with that compensation or not, but made it sound like LH is being super generous with that offer. I asked about the 5K miles, but since i don't have a miles and more account he told me to go f.. myself (again not literally, but his tone was pretty clear "yeeaaaahhhh, since you are not a miles and more member we won't be able to give you any miles or anything beyond the fare difference")
Overall just a continuation of the general we don't give a hoot about your business attitude. This whole experience has totally destroyed my opinion of LH. There are probably lots of people who have good experiences with LH (I did too for the most part up to that point), I am just not in that camp anymore and will from now on try to avoid flying with them.
May 29, 2019, 6:03 pm
#27
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA, France
Programs: LH HON*****, AF/KL Gold; HHilton Diamond; Marriott Gold; IHG Platinium; Avis PresClub
Posts: 934
They are super generous. As mentioned in several posts in this threat, LH does not owe you anything legally. (Morally might be another question. But to judge this, one would have to know to the other party's story also, (e.g. what happened in LUX in LH's perception, ....)
I would take the 400 Euro and stop thinking about the story?
Or what did you expect LH will do? Invite you to a F RTW?
I would take the 400 Euro and stop thinking about the story?
Or what did you expect LH will do? Invite you to a F RTW?
Last edited by athome; May 29, 2019 at 8:47 pm