Pilots go on strike! Not again... [Nov 2016 edition]
#391
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,187
Lufthansa accepted the mediation recommendation of Dr. Gunter Pleuger today. His recommendation contains the following key points:
- A pay increase for the 5,400 pilots in the Group tariff agreement of Lufthansa, Lufthansa Cargo and Germanwings in four stages amounting to a total of around 8.7 percent
- With retroactive effect as of 1 January 2016, a raise in monthly income of 2.0 percent and as of 1 January 2017 of 2.3 percent
- As of 1 January 2018, an increase of 2.4 percent and a further 2.0 percent as of 1 January 2019
- An additional one-off payment amounting to a total of approximately €30 million, which is expected to total around €5,000 to €6,000 per full-time employee
- The term of the remuneration agreements will last to end of 2019
They basically settled on the wage issue, the pension issue still remains open. Also LH will create yet another subsidiary to hire crews for 40 aircraft in a different model to further cut costs.
#394
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: CLE
Programs: UA MileagePlus Premier Platinum
Posts: 1,360
Well, unfortunately if it's not the pilots, it's somebody else Ground staff at Berlin airports to strike again on Thursday over pay
#395
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Global
Posts: 5,998
All of this and only goes through 2019. I would have hoped for 5+ year deal. Basically, strikes could start again in less than 3 years. (I am not from Europe, so maybe I am missing something in terms or rules/laws as to why it is not a longer deal/is there a no-strike law.)
#396
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: AMS/RTM
Posts: 2,827
Because in Europe we value workers' rights. The fact that arguably very privileged employees such as pilots use strikes as a bargaining chip is not a reason to remove such an instrument from everybody's rights.
Mods, feel free to cut the next 27 pages of thread to OMNI.
Mods, feel free to cut the next 27 pages of thread to OMNI.
#397
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Global
Posts: 5,998
Because in Europe we value workers' rights. The fact that arguably very privileged employees such as pilots use strikes as a bargaining chip is not a reason to remove such an instrument from everybody's rights.
Mods, feel free to cut the next 27 pages of thread to OMNI.
Mods, feel free to cut the next 27 pages of thread to OMNI.
It was a simple question that did not deserve such a snarky response.
#398
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between DM464 and DM463 on the NAPSA26 RNAV TRANS in EDDM
Programs: this and that
Posts: 1,731
Finally:
https://investor-relations.lufthansa...-17-mar-2.html
https://investor-relations.lufthansa...-17-mar-2.html
15.03.17
10:20 a.m. – Deutsche Lufthansa AG and pilots’ union Vereinigung Cockpit agree on non-binding terms regarding all relevant open tariff agreements
Arbeitgeberverband Luftverkehr (AGVL), Deutsche Lufthansa AG, Lufthansa Cargo AG and Germanwings GmbH have agreed on non-binding terms with the Vereinigung Cockpit pilots’ union (VC) regarding a comprehensive solution of all open tariff issues. It is intended to also replace the terms that were agreed in the mediation on the wage tariff agreement in February 2017. The Executive Board of Deutsche Lufthansa AG considers the conversion of these terms into legally binding agreements as likely. Items covered by the terms for Lufthansa German Airlines, Lufthansa Cargo and Germanwings are in particular:
The conclusion of long-term collective bargaining agreements with VC regarding wages, productivity, transitional payments and pensions for a period until at least June 2022.
The shift from a defined benefit to a defined contribution pension system for future pension claims and the gradual increase of the retirement age for transitional benefits to an average of 60 years.
The changes in the agreements on transitional payments and pensions probably would have an expected one-time relief on pension liabilities of a high three-digit million euro amount in the financial year 2017 and a positive effect on the Company’s EBIT.
Productivity increases for current and new employees as well as the implementation of a new pay-scale.
Agreed-upon and timely staggered wage increases of 11.4% in total and a one-time payment amounting to 1.8 monthly salaries for the period from May 2012 until June 2022.
The collective bargaining partners have agreed on a common approach for the economic success of the Lufthansa Group from which employees, shareholders and other stakeholders are to benefit. By means of the aforementioned measures they hence aim at a significant decrease of the average cockpit unit costs of Lufthansa German Airlines, Lufthansa Cargo and Germanwings.
Other key points of the non-binding terms concerning structural topics include in particular:
The staffing of at least 325 aircraft of the mentioned airlines with cockpit personnel of the so-called „Konzerntarifvertrag“ at the above mentioned conditions until the end of the term of the agreements.
In this context, the creation of at least 600 positions for captain candidates in the „Konzerntarifvertrag“ until the end of 2022 and perspectively the employment of more than 700 new pilots.
Further details of the various collective bargaining agreements are to be agreed during the course of this year. The parties jointly strive for a long-term collective labour peace. This agreement is subject to board approval and subject to a ballot in the VC.
Note: The mentioned values might be subject to changes as they are amongst others dependent on the reference interest rate used for the calculation of pension liabilities.
Person making the notification: Andreas Hagenbring, Head of Investor Relations Lufthansa Group.
10:20 a.m. – Deutsche Lufthansa AG and pilots’ union Vereinigung Cockpit agree on non-binding terms regarding all relevant open tariff agreements
Arbeitgeberverband Luftverkehr (AGVL), Deutsche Lufthansa AG, Lufthansa Cargo AG and Germanwings GmbH have agreed on non-binding terms with the Vereinigung Cockpit pilots’ union (VC) regarding a comprehensive solution of all open tariff issues. It is intended to also replace the terms that were agreed in the mediation on the wage tariff agreement in February 2017. The Executive Board of Deutsche Lufthansa AG considers the conversion of these terms into legally binding agreements as likely. Items covered by the terms for Lufthansa German Airlines, Lufthansa Cargo and Germanwings are in particular:
The conclusion of long-term collective bargaining agreements with VC regarding wages, productivity, transitional payments and pensions for a period until at least June 2022.
The shift from a defined benefit to a defined contribution pension system for future pension claims and the gradual increase of the retirement age for transitional benefits to an average of 60 years.
The changes in the agreements on transitional payments and pensions probably would have an expected one-time relief on pension liabilities of a high three-digit million euro amount in the financial year 2017 and a positive effect on the Company’s EBIT.
Productivity increases for current and new employees as well as the implementation of a new pay-scale.
Agreed-upon and timely staggered wage increases of 11.4% in total and a one-time payment amounting to 1.8 monthly salaries for the period from May 2012 until June 2022.
The collective bargaining partners have agreed on a common approach for the economic success of the Lufthansa Group from which employees, shareholders and other stakeholders are to benefit. By means of the aforementioned measures they hence aim at a significant decrease of the average cockpit unit costs of Lufthansa German Airlines, Lufthansa Cargo and Germanwings.
Other key points of the non-binding terms concerning structural topics include in particular:
The staffing of at least 325 aircraft of the mentioned airlines with cockpit personnel of the so-called „Konzerntarifvertrag“ at the above mentioned conditions until the end of the term of the agreements.
In this context, the creation of at least 600 positions for captain candidates in the „Konzerntarifvertrag“ until the end of 2022 and perspectively the employment of more than 700 new pilots.
Further details of the various collective bargaining agreements are to be agreed during the course of this year. The parties jointly strive for a long-term collective labour peace. This agreement is subject to board approval and subject to a ballot in the VC.
Note: The mentioned values might be subject to changes as they are amongst others dependent on the reference interest rate used for the calculation of pension liabilities.
Person making the notification: Andreas Hagenbring, Head of Investor Relations Lufthansa Group.
#399
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Eurozone
Programs: LH SEN, HH Gold
Posts: 3,002
Sorry, but your proposition that there should be a no-strike law is considered by many, including me (a business owner, not a striking worker), as being snarky in and of its own. I found malmostoso's response to be measured and appropriate, OMNI jab and all. Such a suggestion does indeed belong in OMNI and not in the Lufthansa forum.
#400
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Global
Posts: 5,998
Sorry, but your proposition that there should be a no-strike law is considered by many, including me (a business owner, not a striking worker), as being snarky in and of its own. I found malmostoso's response to be measured and appropriate, OMNI jab and all. Such a suggestion does indeed belong in OMNI and not in the Lufthansa forum.
I would suggest yo speak for yourself and let others speak for themselves.
#401
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Eurozone
Programs: LH SEN, HH Gold
Posts: 3,002
My wording was unfortunate. I did not intend in any way to assert that many FTers might consider your specific post as being snarky...I was asserting that many German citizens would consider the proposition of such a no-strike law for commercial pilots as being snarky. I was speaking for the majority of Germans who are okay with the labor laws as written. If they weren't, the law most likely would be different than it is.
And again, in my opinion, a discussion of German labor laws belongs in OMNI and not in the Lufthansa forum.
Hopefully, I am much clearer on this point now.
#402
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Global
Posts: 5,998
I read it twice, and then read it again. There is no question mark to go on. It reads (to me, of course) more like a statement of dubiety with an inference that there should be such a law.
My wording was unfortunate. I did not intend in any way to assert that many FTers might consider your specific post as being snarky...I was asserting that many German citizens would consider the proposition of such a no-strike law for commercial pilots as being snarky. I was speaking for the majority of Germans who are okay with the labor laws as written. If they weren't, the law most likely would be different than it is.
And again, in my opinion, a discussion of German labor laws belongs in OMNI and not in the Lufthansa forum.
Hopefully, I am much clearer on this point now.
My wording was unfortunate. I did not intend in any way to assert that many FTers might consider your specific post as being snarky...I was asserting that many German citizens would consider the proposition of such a no-strike law for commercial pilots as being snarky. I was speaking for the majority of Germans who are okay with the labor laws as written. If they weren't, the law most likely would be different than it is.
And again, in my opinion, a discussion of German labor laws belongs in OMNI and not in the Lufthansa forum.
Hopefully, I am much clearer on this point now.
I have no opinion on Germany law. It was a chance for all to learn more about the strikes in Germany and how they might affect us in the future.
#403
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Eurozone
Programs: LH SEN, HH Gold
Posts: 3,002
Then, to be clear, yes, it only went through 2019 with strikes possible within 3 years. It is what was agreed at the time. There are no laws to prevent commercial airline personnel from striking, just as there are no laws to prevent LH from whittling away its elite status benefits. You are not missing anything--beyond a question mark perhaps Alas, it is water under the bridge.
#404
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
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#405
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: BSL/FRA or PHL
Programs: LH Miles and More, DL SkyMiles, Bonvoy, Hilton
Posts: 2,335
At the historic rate of progress in LH labor negotiations, the two sides should perhaps not wait to long to start discussing again, lest we have more strikes 5 years hence.