Lack

No availability for an award you had to save three years worth of qualifying miles is quite the buzz kill, I agree.

No upgrades, no problem with M&M :-).

And you went with M&M? Seems like doubling down on the 'enhancements'.

Why doesn't the logic extend to all award tickets?
If you can't afford to pay for the ticket in cash, you have other more important issues to attend to and flying shouldn't be one of them.

N1003U

I am aware of very few places on the earth where it is not possible to travel either directly or nearly so (e.g., from Europe, the middle of the Pacific north or south can be problematic), if one is flexible with choice of carrier and routing. Last time I looked, it was not necessary to travel from the USA to Asia of the Middle East via the EU, even when using M&M awards. If one wants to fly exclusively with LH, well then that is a different set of considerations, of course.

In my case, LH Group covers a fair percentage of my typical destinations with their Network system, without resorting to three region awards. Where they don't, there are other options.

For me, three region travel is nice on occasion when on a "journey is the destination" -type travel (or if one is desperate for qualification miles), but otherwise is for me a somewhat rare occurrence. There are almost always alternatives to three region travel, and if not, there are also other FF programs more favorable for those who find three-region travel for whatever reason unavoidable.

I am presently in the heart of LH-occupied territory, and before that NYC. I have held a variety of statues on UA, so I am familiar with what they offer and how easy they are in general to deal with and the I find at present the LH M&M program works as well of better than UA MP when traveling mostly on LH.

The UA MP program does have its charms. I have some FF colleagues who strive to keep gold status on both LH and UA.

I suppose like in many things, the fine print and/or specific needs can be important, but the OP seems to be asking opinions from people who know and/or have used both programs. Being a member of that set, my experience is that M&M is fine for those who travel mostly on premium fares, and, depending on what specific features are important and the common travel destinations, can be more advantageous than MP.

Nothing wrong with 1k, especially if one is already lifetime 1k. That is wonderful when traveling on UA. I am suggesting that if one travels frequently on LH, SEN status can be advantageous over 1k when traveling on LH.

Probably the best is to have both 1k and SEN status, and then the OP can pick and choose within the limits of the rules of both programs.

Lack

Last time I looked, LH&Co didn't operate any US to Asia flights to take advantage of the main selling points of the program touted here: wider F booking window, companion award or sen premium award. TLV aside, there are no *A flights to the Middle East any more (AC has YYZ to DXB but that's would require a really generous "flexible with choice of carrier and routing" optic).

Which mainstream program doesn't fit that description (Alaska aside)?

There's very little alternatives to three region travel for US -> Africa / Middle East or SE Asia on *A.

I don't think my credentials are any lesser on this subject then yours.
The premium travel for M&M dogma was severely depreciated by both M&M P-unishment fares and associated cuts and also the significant bumps that UA MP introduced lately.

It is (or at least used to be) - but mostly when traveling in Y. In C or F LH status made little to no difference (exit row in Y is a much bigger gain then a throne on LX) so I don't think the OP is missing much w/o a SEN card.

It may very well make sense to go this route.

N1003U

But, if one already has *G status, the transition to SEN won't be so bad anyway.

In 9 years of redeeming with M&M, I am yet to encounter an availability problem in any class of service that is more serious than needing to move an outbound or inbound travel date by a couple of days. In 31 years with MP (going back to the paper coupon days), I am not sure I can say the same thing. If one is traveling at a level where three years is required to save for a particular award, I am not sure one program is all that much better than any of the others. If three years of saving is required, the customer is probably not benefitting from SEN inventory anyway.

Some of us are masochists like that...

I think the logic is clear. A few hundred euros in fees for C or F ticket, along with some award miles, is a reasonable discount, as least to me, especially for decent availability, which some don't seem to believe exists. My experience is that LH availability when one carries SEN or above status is better when reserving awards as an LH status customer compared to non-LH *A customers.

Paying a fee plus miles for something that cost the same as the fees without miles does, indeed, make less sense. Thus I have never in modern times redeemed a Y ticket with M&M.

Also, in my case, many of the revenue tickets are paid with pre-tax cash (i.e. are business expenses), while the awards are paid with post-tax cash (personal expenses), so using miles and a little cash is markedly different effect on cost that cash alone.

I suppose at the end it comes down to which program one thinks gives the best rebate for the money.

Lack

I noticed that lately the MP inventory is very heavily skewered toward doubling the alphabet soup and thus cutting the partner redemption on UA metal. May or may not matter to some, but if you need to connect in the US then it's quite a big deal.

The JNB-ORD award an LX has a price tag of 290k miles (would be 260k from MP if available). That is the three years worth of saving on the minimum qualification threshold I'm referring too. I might be spoiled, but I like to use my elite benefits more often then that so I focus on other benefits (or features like more favorable earn/burn ratios).

You fit right in M&M then :-).

Miles are currency as well, and sometimes even can be redeemed as cash, so their value should be properly accounted for and I don't see how the "if you can't afford it" logic can only apply to one side of the equation.

How's that different then getting the same award with M&M (paying scam charges) vs getting the same award with M&M (paying just the actual fees)?

I don't think the tax man would go after you if the credited to MP vs M&M, so that's a non-issue for FFP (other then still using the post-tax cash for M&M "taxes").

NewbieRunner

If you can make SEN in 6 months it might be worth considering going for HON.

I agree with malmostoso that you already seem to have made up your mind.

htb

You should also consider the number of miles you can earn since you seem to be using up the miles.

On MP you can get a 100% bonus as a 1K (assuming you don't buy 016 United tickets -- but why should you if flying codeshares anyway), with M&M you get 25% bonus.

So for LX/LH you get the following amount of award miles:

MP LH
F,A 400% 325%
J,C,D 400% 225%
Z 300% 175%
P 200% 125%

If you buy 016 tickets, compare the amounts to what you get based on the cash you pay as well.

As for availability in F on LH/LX: with M&M I have never managed to get an F seat on LX to the US on the dates I needed them (+/- 2 weeks or so), and even LH is very(!) difficult from Europe to the US (and back) in the summer months and I planned my trips around LH F availability. Maybe it's even worse with MP, but the prospect of better LH/LX F availability wouldn't make me move to M&M.

Availability on LH C, on the other hand, is very good with the SEN waiting list.

HTB.

tgj1974

Turkish will ;-)

Lack

Dollar based earning - 11x as 1k might be more then the 400% for expensive tickets as well as quite a bit of P-class tickets over 1500 EUR.

Compared to the burn side of things where the charts are publicly available and apply to everyone, this is pure definition of YMMV so hard to make an absolute statements.

I think you're overly generous here, it's 200+100% on F, A, J, C, D, 150+100 on Z and 100+100 on P as far as award miles go. The higher earning rate are the status miles, which are pretty much completely irrelevant (can't get a higher status and they don't count for lifetime, but might get some extra GPU which the OP doesn't seem to utilize anyway).


UA used to match (via challenge) LH status.

N1003U

Point taken, but miles are not a particularly great currency, and certainly not a substitute for cash. Miles seem to have the best value when applied to home-airline awards.

Also excellent points, but now we get back to the inventory availability issue, which may be one of the largest points of disagreement here. My experience finding LH inventory as an MP 1k is definitely not as good as an M&M SEN. The award that can't be booked has roughly zero value. Perhaps I am in the minority here, but I am yet to be disappointed with LH inventory availability as an M&M member. I cannot say the same about LH inventory as an MP member.

Perhaps put another way: paying 700(ish)€ and some miles for an LH C or F ticket, vs. an MP award that isn't available, or having to really compromise the schedule/routing trying to find a A/P/Z premium fare at a decent price, can make the M&M offerings worth it.

Is M&M all that and a bag of chips? Certainly not. OTOH MP, and perhaps most other FFPs in general today, ain't what they used to be, either. Example: CX has, what appears to me to be a lousy FFP for my needs, and I don't have great status, yet somehow I manage to extract value from the program. Why did I join Marco Polo? I very rarely fly OW, except when I fly CX, and (at least up until this year) I fly CX enough that they recognize my contribution to their revenue stream.

I am fully on board with the argument that many of the practical differences between being 1k and SEN are not so great, and yes, the LH junk fees on awards are annoying. OTOH, I am not so quick to accept that 1k is a better deal when flying a majority on LH metal.

I know there are folks on this forum who do both SEN and 1k (some even simultaneously), so clearly, the mileage, as it were, varies. If I had to make frequent trips on LH and UA but were confined by my travel policy and/or budget mostly to the economy cabin, I might be convinced that UAMP is the way to go, especially with the systemwide upgrades benefit. Being able to buy economy and fly business on long-haul is a nice perk, but it isn't so relevant for me.

chinatraderjmr

I would gladly use upgrades from Biz to First IF it was available at booking but it's a moot point. Upgrades don't do me any good. I change flights and even cities very often in the middle of a trip. So I'd need an unrestricted fare anyway which is not much cheaper. Even though the company pays for my travel I treat it like its my own money (which it kind of is since I own the company . The only reason I can justify F class over J is because I'm flying almost every week in one direction (DXB-JFK/LAX or DXB-FRA-JFK/LAX) and after 25 years of this, my body just can't take it any more. But if I'm gonna have Yoooo spend $15-20,000 per round trip...I want the MOST for my money. UA can't compete w EK or even LX/LH yet the fares are the same

As far as awards and not booking them within 2 weeks, I don't usually use awards for myself. I use them t0 bring friends/family to Dubai for visits. It's a real pain to not be able to confirm flights till 2 weeks prior. I obviously end up booking other airlines in Biz and changing it to F within the 2 weeks but it's a pain in the ... to have to call numerous times and even remember. That is really why I think M&M may be better for me

weero

Why not collect some miles on M&M so that you keep the 1K, in case M&M goes even further down the toilet?

4MM is within reach for you and when you are retired, the lifetime 1K/GS (i.e. as long as US lives ...) will be handy for you. And with the 3x and 4x multiplier it should not be that hard.

Without GS and HON neither program is great for you and while the SEN WL does sound good on paper, it only really works for the C cabin.

N1003U

I think this is close to the truth...though I have had decent luck with F avaialbility.

chinatraderjmr

Good point. I already have 1K for life (3mm). I'll never make 4million since code shares don't count. It must be BIS on UA metal & im not willing to give up flying EK/LH/LX to get GS for life. GS is great if you fly UA often domestic, but for international travel, nothing beats a full F ticket. I'm not GS with UA but am IO with EK. Same idea but while EK is looking for new things they can do for IOs, I've heard from s lot of GS members that UA is cutting back in some areas

NYC1

From what you describe, I think that you should switch to M&M.