Spohr: My HON Circle Service Pledge
Jun 21, 2015, 11:59 pm
#196
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: ZRH
Programs: LX HON***, FB Silver, BA Silver, Bonvoy Gold, Hyatt GP, Hertz Gold, GHA Black
Posts: 830
Two steps back, one step forward, well, that's not what I would call "not worse"..
I'm just a lowly SEN which obviously doesn't see whats going on in HON-country, but reading this thread makes me feel like the love the HONs are getting from LH is also reduced to a level where the numbers are shrinking, and while the gras being always greener on the other side, it seems for now there is more wandering away from LH group towards other alliances, or more towards Price–performance, ie loyalty all across the alliances is shrinking.
Status doesn't mean what it used to, and for pax flying at least C, there are usually all kind of services available that they would get with a status (same with F pax and the Ultra-Elite status they are used..)
For someone flying C, HON is probably still something worthwhile (as long as he can retain it, which means, unless he's flying massive amounts, flying in D/J/C, maybe some Z, but definitely not P exclusive, it would take a RT FRA-SIN in P every third week to make/keep HON!) - so, those that profit the most from HON are expensive C-class bookers.
Those that fly F anyway are getting a good product from LH (I think we all agree that LH F is fairly good and play in the Top league of F around the world) - but for them HON is probably just a nice give-away.
The problem with airlines nowadays is to "figure out" which customers do have choices, and have to be "lured into" booking it's own airline by giving away free stuff (especially for those flying on business, and able to use such free stuff privately) or other benefits that the customer will like, while they try to avoid giving out anything to those that have no choice but to fly their airline.
I'm just a lowly SEN which obviously doesn't see whats going on in HON-country, but reading this thread makes me feel like the love the HONs are getting from LH is also reduced to a level where the numbers are shrinking, and while the gras being always greener on the other side, it seems for now there is more wandering away from LH group towards other alliances, or more towards Price–performance, ie loyalty all across the alliances is shrinking.
Status doesn't mean what it used to, and for pax flying at least C, there are usually all kind of services available that they would get with a status (same with F pax and the Ultra-Elite status they are used..)
For someone flying C, HON is probably still something worthwhile (as long as he can retain it, which means, unless he's flying massive amounts, flying in D/J/C, maybe some Z, but definitely not P exclusive, it would take a RT FRA-SIN in P every third week to make/keep HON!) - so, those that profit the most from HON are expensive C-class bookers.
Those that fly F anyway are getting a good product from LH (I think we all agree that LH F is fairly good and play in the Top league of F around the world) - but for them HON is probably just a nice give-away.
The problem with airlines nowadays is to "figure out" which customers do have choices, and have to be "lured into" booking it's own airline by giving away free stuff (especially for those flying on business, and able to use such free stuff privately) or other benefits that the customer will like, while they try to avoid giving out anything to those that have no choice but to fly their airline.
This discussion is about people spending substantial time in the air - they ALL have choices no matter if they fly F or C, booking class or whatsoever. They have seen and flown other airlines and most of them have status with them. You say "loyalty all across the alliances is shrinking", which is a general statement but this might be true and why? - because people see benefits to stay cut everywhere. Why should they be loyal if they treated like a nobody.
LH Group claims they have the largest FFP in Europe and they can not work something successfully out for the smallest group (0.0x%) in it! The latest example is that you have to pay as HON for the luggage when booking (once is a while) a cheap eco fare in Europe. Yes, you can do this and I believe most HONs have the money to pay it or claim to their company - it is the signal you are sending LH! Somebody leaves a six digit amount of dollars with you every year and you ask him for the luggage fee...
Last edited by HKG1111; Jun 22, 2015 at 5:13 am
Jun 22, 2015, 1:41 am
#197
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Stoke on Trent, UK (MAN ), BUE, BKK, DBV
Programs: LH HON***,UA,BA.EK Gold,AV.
Posts: 11,646
I am not sure if it really actually got worse?
I see a slight improvement in the new op up strategy. (Status now is back in play - within limits)
PA service in North America has gotten worse though.
I seem to be very lucky as I travel to BKK quite often and I'd vote that this is the best station in the LH system. ^
I see a slight improvement in the new op up strategy. (Status now is back in play - within limits)
PA service in North America has gotten worse though.
I seem to be very lucky as I travel to BKK quite often and I'd vote that this is the best station in the LH system. ^
All our useful exclusive partners have been enhanced away.
Terrible experiences at LAX, IAH & SFO already this year, only positive was LX at MIA....
HON surprise never happened last December.
Ignored as HON intra EU flights.
I had no flights where I could be oped up.
No F to BKK so forget it LH, thanks for introducing me to CDG-DOH-BKK on QR F ^
So, absolutely, in the Year since Sphor gave us his personal promise it has deteriorated
Jun 22, 2015, 2:28 am
#198
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,184
LH Group claims they have the largest FFP in Europe and they can not work something successfully out for the smallest group (0.0x%) in it! The latest example is that you have to pay as HON for the luggage when booking (once is a while) a cheap eco fare in Europe. Yes, you can do this and I believe most HONs have the money to pay it or claim to their company - it is the signal you are sending LH! Somebody leaves a three digit amount of dollars with you every year and you ask him for the luggage fee...
From my experience I rarely see HONs checking luggage...
And they mostly fly expensive Y and/or business on regional hops 
Jun 22, 2015, 3:21 am
#199
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: ORD
Programs: BA, AA, SQ, UA, AC, WS, MR TIT
Posts: 8,659
Jun 22, 2015, 5:02 am
#201
Join Date: Nov 2008
Programs: Disgruntled HON**, Indifferent EK Gold, skeptical BA Silver
Posts: 1,734
So I assume the two PA had a very sloppy day and allowed my luggage being taken by somebody. And instead of helping me, they just left.
HON/F PA in USA to me is rather useless. No added benefit upon departure or arrival. They should fire these people and redistribute the savings to the excellent cabin crew.
Not ranting re missed luggage. That happens. Esp if fellow pax are to stupid to check tags.
HON/F PA in USA to me is rather useless. No added benefit upon departure or arrival. They should fire these people and redistribute the savings to the excellent cabin crew.
Not ranting re missed luggage. That happens. Esp if fellow pax are to stupid to check tags.
I just hope they find this suitcase. packed to the rafters with 9 tailor made suits with vests and 2 trousers each and a bunch of tailor made shirts. I guess the most expensive suitcase I ever packed.
Jun 22, 2015, 5:31 am
#202
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,836
Hmm, let me think...
The story is not about me being a HON, but actually about two people that are and about the experience with, well, the (sorry) HON service. So that already inflates it.
Then the topic of this thread is HON Circle, so there is a high likelihood of the term coming up quite often. Using other terms instead will make reading more confusing, no?
Lastly, relative to the length of the post there are others where the term comes up much more often.
But surely we can do some copy-paste to mention it even more often :-)
(No offense taken)
The story is not about me being a HON, but actually about two people that are and about the experience with, well, the (sorry) HON service. So that already inflates it.
Then the topic of this thread is HON Circle, so there is a high likelihood of the term coming up quite often. Using other terms instead will make reading more confusing, no?
Lastly, relative to the length of the post there are others where the term comes up much more often.
But surely we can do some copy-paste to mention it even more often :-)
(No offense taken)
Jun 22, 2015, 8:05 am
#203
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,188
[OT]If they were tailor made, hopefully they were not as attractive for a thief. Let us know when they find the bag. Fingers crossed![/OT]
Jul 9, 2015, 8:46 pm
#204
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,953
I wanted to share some great service recovery story.
My better half is a LH-HON and is currently travelling HKG FRA NAP on a D-class ticket with the HKG FRA sector upgraded with e-vouchers. Last night's HKG FRA as well as MUC FRA got delayed by several hours because of a typhoon alert in HKG, which is obviously not LH's fault.
Not even 2 minutes after the delay info came in by text message, I got called by the HON Circle service desk (my phone number is in my partner's profile) offering to be reaccomodated and the lady offered me basically anything I wanted including reroutings via SIN/PEK/PVG and even HND to still make it in the morning to FRA.
Since my partner couldn't make it earlier to HKG to fly to SIN/PEK/PVG/HND, she then asked for 10 min to investigate the fastest option via FRA or MUC. She indeed called back 10 min later and offered a long list of options including on Alitalia via Rome although the Lufthansa flight MUC NAP would only get him there marginally later.
Needless to say I was impressed, since LH was certainly under no obligation to rebook on other carriers for this weather related delay. Also, the lady apparently personally phoned the HKG station and all necessary administration had been taken care of by the time my partner approached the check in there.
My better half is a LH-HON and is currently travelling HKG FRA NAP on a D-class ticket with the HKG FRA sector upgraded with e-vouchers. Last night's HKG FRA as well as MUC FRA got delayed by several hours because of a typhoon alert in HKG, which is obviously not LH's fault.
Not even 2 minutes after the delay info came in by text message, I got called by the HON Circle service desk (my phone number is in my partner's profile) offering to be reaccomodated and the lady offered me basically anything I wanted including reroutings via SIN/PEK/PVG and even HND to still make it in the morning to FRA.
Since my partner couldn't make it earlier to HKG to fly to SIN/PEK/PVG/HND, she then asked for 10 min to investigate the fastest option via FRA or MUC. She indeed called back 10 min later and offered a long list of options including on Alitalia via Rome although the Lufthansa flight MUC NAP would only get him there marginally later.
Needless to say I was impressed, since LH was certainly under no obligation to rebook on other carriers for this weather related delay. Also, the lady apparently personally phoned the HKG station and all necessary administration had been taken care of by the time my partner approached the check in there.
Jul 10, 2015, 2:21 am
#205
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: FRA
Posts: 2,175
Consider your options!
I was HON for eight years from day one and then opted out deliberately. I share my flying now between CX & EK (internationally) combined with FRAPORT VIP-Service and NetJets (in Europe). I sometimes need LH C in Europe or LH F if I have to go the USA, so I will still have a use for my credit card miles and, with the paid tickets, can remain SEN. I am not missing HON, and even including the VIP-service cost my tickets are now cheaper and include a chauffeur service if I need it.
Sorry for all of those who have to go to the U.S. all the time and live in Frankfurt or Munich -- in that case I agree that you have no choice.
I was HON for eight years from day one and then opted out deliberately. I share my flying now between CX & EK (internationally) combined with FRAPORT VIP-Service and NetJets (in Europe). I sometimes need LH C in Europe or LH F if I have to go the USA, so I will still have a use for my credit card miles and, with the paid tickets, can remain SEN. I am not missing HON, and even including the VIP-service cost my tickets are now cheaper and include a chauffeur service if I need it.
Sorry for all of those who have to go to the U.S. all the time and live in Frankfurt or Munich -- in that case I agree that you have no choice.
Jul 10, 2015, 4:04 am
#206
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,836
Consider your options!
I was HON for eight years from day one and then opted out deliberately. I share my flying now between CX & EK (internationally) combined with FRAPORT VIP-Service and NetJets (in Europe). I sometimes need LH C in Europe or LH F if I have to go the USA, so I will still have a use for my credit card miles and, with the paid tickets, can remain SEN. I am not missing HON, and even including the VIP-service cost my tickets are now cheaper and include a chauffeur service if I need it.
Sorry for all of those who have to go to the U.S. all the time and live in Frankfurt or Munich -- in that case I agree that you have no choice.
I was HON for eight years from day one and then opted out deliberately. I share my flying now between CX & EK (internationally) combined with FRAPORT VIP-Service and NetJets (in Europe). I sometimes need LH C in Europe or LH F if I have to go the USA, so I will still have a use for my credit card miles and, with the paid tickets, can remain SEN. I am not missing HON, and even including the VIP-service cost my tickets are now cheaper and include a chauffeur service if I need it.
Sorry for all of those who have to go to the U.S. all the time and live in Frankfurt or Munich -- in that case I agree that you have no choice.
I would understand why one would choose not to fly with Lufthansa. But in search of a better status, where would one go?
Jul 11, 2015, 8:28 am
#207
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: FRA
Posts: 2,175
Just out of curiosity: did you leave because you felt that the Lufthansa product was inferior to other airlines (which I can understand if you go on CX instead) or because you felt that another airlines top tier was better than HON (which one would that be)?
I would understand why one would choose not to fly with Lufthansa. But in search of a better status, where would one go?
I would understand why one would choose not to fly with Lufthansa. But in search of a better status, where would one go?
yes it was mainly product considerations. If you fly F somewhere else, you will always get "some" status quickly that allows you to use your miles in a reasonable way as well. HON at that time was good. But I just told a friend that my "wake-up" was staying in a worn down U.S. Hilton (because of the points and status) which had a good view on the local top hotel. That time I decided I will not go for this status stuff anymore. Every airport has great VIP pay-in service comes at smaller cost as the difference to the fare of a status-driven booking. even I am not "HON" on CX or EK, at least people at the station in FRA know me, which sometimes helps more than a card. I was also give "Hyatt lifetime diamond" without even knowing that this status even exits. If I sometimes fly intra-european on LH in C, I really like their service, and I always get what I want. No problem I am only a SEN now. In regards to airlines, I value safety most, then service. As EK and CX are the safest airlines in the world, and have the best service, I am fine
Not to mention LH´s arrogance to not offer company contracts within Germany with a good discount if you are not Siemens or BMW. Other airlines do that, starting at much smaller budgets. Reliable fares, and you can also book directly with them without any service charges if needed.
To make it short: Yes, I felt the product was declining, and I did not like the new LH F (I know this might be a personal feeling), and just having a black card from them in the pocket did not make up for it. Sure, I will chose LH if they have a direct flight to where I want to go, instead of stopping in Dubai for four hours. But what I said: it is a decision per flight. I do not want to start the year deciding about which airline I have to fly all year long.
I also understand this is different for everyone. If you do not own the company you work for, they might not pay for a VIP-service somewhere etc. In that case LH gives you something, that you do not get anywhere else. But if you manage your budget yourself, you have choices.
Jul 13, 2015, 7:55 am
#208
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: BSL/FRA or PHL
Programs: LH Miles and More, DL SkyMiles, Bonvoy, Hilton
Posts: 2,335
...yes it was mainly product considerations...
...Not to mention LH´s arrogance to not offer company contracts within Germany with a good discount if you are not Siemens or BMW. Other airlines do that, starting at much smaller budgets. Reliable fares, and you can also book directly with them without any service charges if needed...
...it is a decision per flight. I do not want to start the year deciding about which airline I have to fly all year long...
...if you manage your budget yourself, you have choices...
...Not to mention LH´s arrogance to not offer company contracts within Germany with a good discount if you are not Siemens or BMW. Other airlines do that, starting at much smaller budgets. Reliable fares, and you can also book directly with them without any service charges if needed...
...it is a decision per flight. I do not want to start the year deciding about which airline I have to fly all year long...
...if you manage your budget yourself, you have choices...
Jul 6, 2020, 2:53 am
#209
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Stoke on Trent, UK (MAN ), BUE, BKK, DBV
Programs: LH HON***,UA,BA.EK Gold,AV.
Posts: 11,646
Seems Covid19 has caused Sphor to forget about his HON Circle pledge !
Either the HON/ F lounges re open & other HON benefits return or, LH group get no more cash from me.
Either the HON/ F lounges re open & other HON benefits return or, LH group get no more cash from me.