LH & other airlines may end up in court with consumer protection
May 27, 2013, 7:23 am
#31
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This is not just about leaving people stranded it is about protecting funds that have to be paided a long time in advance.
Germany already has protection in place for packages but flights/ airlines were noteablely excluded from this. Also these TA's and package dealer are not allowed to take 100% of the price at the time of booking in order to reduce the potential damages. They are actually only allowed to take 20% until 30 days prior to departure AND these funds have to be insured with something called a "Sicherungsschein"
Now days airlines will take 100% payment at the time of booking regardless of if it is 9 months or 1 day out and this makes the risk so high.
Example for my flight over the next 6 months (those that are currently already well planned) I have over 7.000 Euros out there in unprotected funds that the airlines are using to fund their everyday business.
I am not so sure this will be a red herring since it would simply be an extention of something we already have and if you do try the maths on some of these companies you are bound to get quite a shock at just what kind of numbers we are talking about.
Germany already has protection in place for packages but flights/ airlines were noteablely excluded from this. Also these TA's and package dealer are not allowed to take 100% of the price at the time of booking in order to reduce the potential damages. They are actually only allowed to take 20% until 30 days prior to departure AND these funds have to be insured with something called a "Sicherungsschein"
Now days airlines will take 100% payment at the time of booking regardless of if it is 9 months or 1 day out and this makes the risk so high.
Example for my flight over the next 6 months (those that are currently already well planned) I have over 7.000 Euros out there in unprotected funds that the airlines are using to fund their everyday business.
I am not so sure this will be a red herring since it would simply be an extention of something we already have and if you do try the maths on some of these companies you are bound to get quite a shock at just what kind of numbers we are talking about.
So before we turn this into an OMNI debate- the risk of Lufthansa not being able to honour their commitment to customers meaning that they will either travel on the flight as booked or have their funds 100% refunded is extremely low- and actually much lower in VAR probability than the EURO no longer being the currency which Lufthansa would have to refund. Now, many could say "That's ridiculous- the EURO will not be allowed to default"- however if we look simply at risk levels of the rating agencies we find that indeed the risk of a Lufthansa Group default is lower than a Eurozone default.
Consumer protection agencies serve a very real role and are important- however I would think they should be spending time looking into real every day costs for citizens and businesses- i.e. Fuel Surcharges as opposed to projecting the probability of a Lufthansa or any other airline default which is something the rating agencies did a long time ago.
May 27, 2013, 12:07 pm
#32
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HTB.
Jun 1, 2013, 3:26 pm
#33
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Jun 1, 2013, 8:28 pm
#34
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BE AWARE credit cards do NOT work like that in Germany or even in Europe. You only have 30 days to query an incorrect or fraudlant post. After that it is over. There is no such thing as simply disputing the charge with your cc company after the 30 days like in the US!!!
That means the vast majority of passengers are not protected as you might suggest.
That means the vast majority of passengers are not protected as you might suggest.
Anyway I asked and get refund 5-6 months later for a Chair I ordered in France and never get delivered (Visa Card).
I get refund also 2-3 months later for other products without problems (different Master/Visa).
Last edited by GalaxyChris; Jun 2, 2013 at 4:47 pm
Jun 3, 2013, 8:54 am
#35
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Jun 3, 2013, 10:27 am
#36
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BE AWARE credit cards do NOT work like that in Germany or even in Europe. You only have 30 days to query an incorrect or fraudlant post. After that it is over. There is no such thing as simply disputing the charge with your cc company after the 30 days like in the US!!!
That means the vast majority of passengers are not protected as you might suggest.
That means the vast majority of passengers are not protected as you might suggest.
Bankruptcy is not fraudulent or incorrect charge. Also I'm quite unsure about this 30 days rule in these cases, too. Where do you get it from? In 30 days I might not even receive my CC bill!
Jun 3, 2013, 10:33 am
#37
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Jun 3, 2013, 11:04 am
#38
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They might tell you what you want. As long as they cannot produce a slip signed/authorized by you, they have a problem. They need a basis for a claim against you, not vice versa. The 30 days rule might work for other cases (eg. you didn't get the ordered goods or returned these), however asa it is a charge without authorization, the case is different.
Jun 4, 2013, 1:03 am
#39
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However the moment you book a flight you have to enter the CC details into the system you ARE ordering and the post is in part at least legit.
Now you are booking a flight say for in 6 months (on these No frills lines you will want to do that to protect your pricing) then it is a legit posting right up to the point where the airline goes belly up and it is clear they will nolonger be able to deliver the service they charged you for 6 months ago. Here in Germany at least banks and CC will not just recall payments made passed those 30 days and you will have to join the queue with all the other creditors and hope there will be something left for you to claim. This is what this insurance is supposed to cover so that the passenger is not out of his monies f the worst occurs prior to him recieving what he paid for..
Now you are booking a flight say for in 6 months (on these No frills lines you will want to do that to protect your pricing) then it is a legit posting right up to the point where the airline goes belly up and it is clear they will nolonger be able to deliver the service they charged you for 6 months ago. Here in Germany at least banks and CC will not just recall payments made passed those 30 days and you will have to join the queue with all the other creditors and hope there will be something left for you to claim. This is what this insurance is supposed to cover so that the passenger is not out of his monies f the worst occurs prior to him recieving what he paid for..
Jan 13, 2014, 1:28 am
#41
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It seems LH Köln pondered over the matter for six months and dismissed the case against LH last week. VZ NRW will probably go to the next level.
Jan 13, 2014, 5:18 pm
#42
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Hmm... I really don't know in detail, but last year when KFA was about to go belly up, the IATA clearing house suspended their BSP. TAs have to provide extensive documentation and bank guarantees in order to be allowed to issue tickets. Airlines do something similar on their end, so if you get your ticket via a TA you are somewhat covered... which partially explains why airline had no problems reprotecting JK bookings on their stock.
While some pax were protected, JK and MA's bankruptcies resulted in a financial hit for many passengers.