Sep 20, 2013, 5:36 am
Last edit by: Tyrolean
Since FT is setting up an award for the best frequent flyer program it is well in line with other evaluations. Where did the old FT spirit go?
My suggestion is to have an additional "shame award". That would give FT a little more publicity than the "all airlines are our friend" approach. They only want your best: your money!
My nominations for the LH Shame award would be splitted into the categories Product, Frequent Flyer Program enhacements, Customer Service and Worst Marketing Lie.
Sadly I cannot set up a poll.
My nominations:
Update December 2017:
Be Aware! Even if you book an LH flight number you may get no *A Benefits (Miles, Lounge, Luggage,..) at all if your flight seems to be operated by a 100% subsidiary that has its own rules!
Product
Frequent Flyer Program enhancements:
Customer Service
Worst Marketing Lie
My suggestion is to have an additional "shame award". That would give FT a little more publicity than the "all airlines are our friend" approach. They only want your best: your money!
My nominations for the LH Shame award would be splitted into the categories Product, Frequent Flyer Program enhacements, Customer Service and Worst Marketing Lie.
Sadly I cannot set up a poll.
My nominations:
Update December 2017:
Be Aware! Even if you book an LH flight number you may get no *A Benefits (Miles, Lounge, Luggage,..) at all if your flight seems to be operated by a 100% subsidiary that has its own rules!
Product
- 2016: Enhancement of Magazines in Domestic and European Business Class for "Environmental Reasons"
- New European Cabin:
Camping Chairs with massage function. Enhancement of Wardrobe and movable Armrest in C. Ryanair feeling for Business Class prices. Fewer room for hand luggage so you cannot stay in the lounge, but have to run to the plane in a Ryanair way to secure a spot for you handluggage. - Be Invited: Food - yuck!
- Strict hand luggage police as a result of squeezing more people in the plane
- On board food - should look stylish but is just cheap and awful. I want my food not "designed" but "cooked"
- Fixed: Sliding Seat and slow conversion of planes for the new seat!
- New seat still worse than most competitors.
- IFE in Economy
Slow installation on the planes . Poor selection of films as a "differentiation" to the crappy C Class. (Should be over since 2013, so really made better). - 2013: No more free Exit row reservation on OS.
- Luggage: Introduction of a piece-system and reducing the number of free luggage!
Frequent Flyer Program enhancements:
- 2018: Bonus Miles en par with net price of the tickets. Some win, most lose!
- 2015: New European Fares: No Seat Reservation or extra Luggage for Elites on Light Fares
- 2014: Select miles scam: Silly incentives
- 2014: Reduction of lower Economy booking classes (100% classes go 50% or 25%) on LH and most of other airlines
- 2014: Reduction of Status miles on TK to 25% on ALL fares!
- 2014: Status stars without any benefit
- 2012: Reduction of milage of "Cheap" Business Class Fares to ridiculous Amounts (100% Economy level)
- 2012: Kicking out FTLs of contract lounges
- 2012: No HON Miles on Eco Tickets –.even the very expensive fully flexible ones!
- Reducing Perks by transferring flights to 4U and EN:
- No miles on EN on all tickets with EN flight number (2015)
- No Lounge Access when flying 4U as FTL and SEN in Smart Fares
- No Priority Boarding
- No Fast lane and other status perks when flying 4U
- No *G Benefits on 4U and EN
- No Companion in the Lounges for HON and SEN
- No real communication about the changes: Passengers have to learn it he hard way by getting bounced by the lounge dragon with all the embarrassment.
- Fuel Surcharges on "Free Tickets" sometimes over 500 Euro - it is often cheaper to buy a revenue ticket than booking miles+invented fees!
- 1/2014: F-Awards on LX only for SEN and HON.
- 2013: Additional Fuel Fine for Business and First Class Tickets.
- 2014: Further reduction of upgradable Economy booking classes
- No longer possible to pre assign an exit row for non-SEN/HON companions
- 2013: E-Vouchers expire now
- 2004: Enhancement of Evouchers every 50k Status Miles
- Many times: Increase of Award levels with short notice
- No Lounge Guest as FTL (other programs give *G at same or lower level, guest lounge access was enhanced away, available for cash in a few lounges).
- 2004: The biggest round of enhancements:
- Minimum Miles in Economy go from 1000 Fixed miles down to 125.
- Domestic Business Class goes down from 2000 to 1500
- Executive Bonus on Base miles (so from 250% in C to 225% or 375% in F down to 225%).
- No Executive Bonus on non integrated or transatlantic partners
- No more Qualification with Segments for SEN
- Continuing Devaluation of PartnerPlusBenefit in Germany
- Decreasing of points
- Points needed for F awards tripled
- No communication about the changes
- 2013: Reduction of the flexibilty of Partner Plus Benefit Awards (Program now more useless)
- 2011: massive reduction of lounge benefits for SENs and HONs - access only when flying and only when flying on *A. (Enhancement of the open door policy).
- Further obfuscation of lounge access rules. LDs are now at liberty to make up their lounge rules ad lib depending on their mood or lounge load. Reported on the fly rules are: companion needs to be on the same flight, companion needs to be SEN too (sic!), companion needs to be in the same class of servivce, companion needs to be on the same itinerary / ticket / record locator. Lounge privileges drop from the most generous ones to consistently below the minimum requirement of the *A.
- No more Children in contracted Lounges: Until a few years ago you could take your own children in all contracted Lounges when flying LH. This is now limited to LH own lounges - so no more advantage over other *G on the outstations.
- Enhancement of the Booking Guarantee in C/D for SEN/HON
- Forcing to buy a 3 region award as transits count the same as stopovers
Customer Service
- Ignoring of EU Rules - You have to sue them to get the compensation you are entitled
- 6 Weeks for manual retrocredits
- Machine for answering letters with really no content
Worst Marketing Lie
- Ridiculous prices when rebooking a "Flexible" ticket, because the original fare class is sold out.
- 2015: Germanwings, Eurowings whatever?!?
- 2014: "Gifted" Status miles at the end of the year even beeing requalified
- 2014: Five Star Airline!!
- 2014: Exchange 25000 credit card miles into 5000 Status miles.
- 2014: Fools that have LH Status too long get stars printed on their card!
- 2014: Status Star members get as a benefit the chance to "win" a F-RTW Ticket. Fine-Print shows that you have to pay "Taxes" and "Fuel-Fair-Fee" + surcharges (e.g. F-Suites on SQ) for the ticket (over 1000 Euro) and you have to rely on availability of reward seats. So you get seats that are free anyway and LH earns "Fuel Fines".
- Increase of Award Levels 2011
- Over 500 Euro self created "fees" for a "free" ticket
- Adding new expensive booking class J and selling it as a "quality enhancement" - then taking away the booking guarantee for SEN and HON --> just a simple but hefty price increase
- Forcing everybody who wants to rebook on a short notice into J class --> yet an other ripoff as so called flexible tickets are not flexible any more.
- Introduction of 380 years after other airlines and claiming it as the "first 380". In reality it offers an outdated product in C and Y. New F seat and Urinals in F as the only real improvement.
- Credit Card Promos
M&M Shame award [compiliation of enhancements since 2004]
Dec 10, 2011, 8:14 am
#16
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP->GM
Posts: 38,265
World class piece of art Tyrolean ^ !
Of course other FFPs also went through a period of drought but M&M excels when it comes selling BDSM style pain infliction as "customer demand" and enhancement.
Of course other FFPs also went through a period of drought but M&M excels when it comes selling BDSM style pain infliction as "customer demand" and enhancement.
Dec 10, 2011, 9:33 am
#17
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NUE
Programs: *G (TK elite+), OW sapphire (QR), ST elite plus (AF). LA black
Posts: 3,678
that's one of the best threads for a long time ^^^
one item to add:
SEN/HON companions are no nonger allowed to make an advance seat reservation in exit rows ...
and the fuel surcharge on "free tickets" is really rediculous. sometimes even more expensive than buying a revenue ticket ...
one item to add:
SEN/HON companions are no nonger allowed to make an advance seat reservation in exit rows ...
and the fuel surcharge on "free tickets" is really rediculous. sometimes even more expensive than buying a revenue ticket ...
Dec 10, 2011, 9:39 am
#18
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Point Place, Wisconsin
Programs: LH HON, BA Gold, EK Gold
Posts: 14,505
Dec 10, 2011, 12:18 pm
#19
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: DUS
Programs: BAEC, MM, HH, MB
Posts: 182
So why should I book a "free" flight with miles?
S.
Dec 10, 2011, 1:35 pm
#20
Join Date: Aug 2008
Programs: A3 *G, BA silver, LH, UA
Posts: 518
).Another disgrace: op-ups with SPML do not exist. AFAIK, only airline that does that (even LX, OS, CA(!), and AC somehow succeed in op-uping a SPML-pax).
Dec 11, 2011, 8:25 am
#21
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: NUE,MUC,INN,FDH
Programs: QF LTG, LH (SEN*** till 02/26), AF, AA, AB-G†
Posts: 2,076
Will add that extra in the "Marketing Lie" part.
I would leave the list for a week and then try to set up a poll.
Does anyone know how to set up polls on FT or may use his name for a survey portal?
Sorry I still have to try to hide a bit!
Dec 11, 2011, 8:30 am
#22
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: NUE,MUC,INN,FDH
Programs: QF LTG, LH (SEN*** till 02/26), AF, AA, AB-G†
Posts: 2,076
Mate! That is not a "Butterbrezn" that is an insult! Butterbrezn are delicious freshly baked! This is a declaration of war to the Bavarian tradition!
Dec 14, 2011, 4:29 am
#23
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 30
Nice list.^
Just two minor comments:
- You also earn the executive bonus on AC, UA and US.
- considering other airlines don´t offer any lounge access to their *S members I don´t think it´s reasonable to complain about no guesting privilieges, just MHO of course
Other than that may I add:
1) fuel surcharges on award tickets
2) M&M forcing you to book 3 region awards even when it´s a published routing or you can´t even get to the destination without transiting through a third region
3) "earn 4x as many miles" credit card promo* *when you use 2 CCs (my favourite! Here´s an idea for the marketing gurus for next years promo: "earn 8x as many miles if you spend four times as much")
Just two minor comments:
- You also earn the executive bonus on AC, UA and US.
- considering other airlines don´t offer any lounge access to their *S members I don´t think it´s reasonable to complain about no guesting privilieges, just MHO of course
Other than that may I add:
1) fuel surcharges on award tickets
2) M&M forcing you to book 3 region awards even when it´s a published routing or you can´t even get to the destination without transiting through a third region
3) "earn 4x as many miles" credit card promo* *when you use 2 CCs (my favourite! Here´s an idea for the marketing gurus for next years promo: "earn 8x as many miles if you spend four times as much")
Right, only that.....
Silver is usually reached at 25K and with LH you need 35K,
and......
Gold is usually reached at 50K (which entitles entry to all the lounges) and with LH, you need 100K. A mere difference of 50K.
But excuse my stupid question.....: Why do we stick with the M&M program ?
I am switching to Conti for a year, and see where it leads me, since I do about 180 actual miles a year (before the mark ups)
Dec 14, 2011, 4:55 am
#24
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: GVA,OPO
Programs: BD the last decent FFP
Posts: 1,856
Right, only that.....
Silver is usually reached at 25K and with LH you need 35K,
and......
Gold is usually reached at 50K (which entitles entry to all the lounges) and with LH, you need 100K. A mere difference of 50K.
But excuse my stupid question.....: Why do we stick with the M&M program ?
I am switching to Conti for a year, and see where it leads me, since I do about 180 actual miles a year (before the mark ups)
Silver is usually reached at 25K and with LH you need 35K,
and......
Gold is usually reached at 50K (which entitles entry to all the lounges) and with LH, you need 100K. A mere difference of 50K.
But excuse my stupid question.....: Why do we stick with the M&M program ?
I am switching to Conti for a year, and see where it leads me, since I do about 180 actual miles a year (before the mark ups)
And with a CoS bonus of 200% for BiZ that means only 50K BIS. Less even if you fly Intra-Europe. Or F.
And this is a totally different approach from the North American FFP who don't reward premium class as such but rather give 100% on low Y classes. But this is a whole different discussion.
Better availability award which makes a big difference if you're European based
Companion award for SEN
This almost looks a recap of the FTaward voting poll.
And these are the reasons for me to stick around, now it's clear M&M is boiling us like frogs, one enhancement at the time, like Tyrolean so thoroughly demonstrates.
And these are the ones that bring frustration and may for some of us break the loyalty and the empathy.
For me the liberating moment came last year, when the award chart was enhanced. Sure I'll still try to keep SEN if I can, but I won't go out of my way as I did in the past, and especially to fly LH.
GBM
Dec 14, 2011, 5:17 am
#25
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2009
Location: FRA / YEG
Programs: AC Super Elite, Radisson Platinum, Accor Platinum
Posts: 11,874
Therefore I think 35k miles for FTL and 100k miles for SEN isn´t unreasonable, though I do find the 130k miles requirement for SENs living in Germany to be too high.
As I pretty much exclusively fly for leisure, I switched to AC as my primary FFP due to upgrades, mileage bonuses, and some other nice benefits M&M doesn´t offer. In addition buying some US miles for F rewards when needed and having some LH and UA miles in my account in case I need a last-minute one-way reward pretty much satisfies all my needs.
Dec 14, 2011, 5:21 am
#26
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 30
Don't forget those 100K will give you status for 2 years (rather than having to do 50K each year).
And with a CoS bonus of 200% for BiZ that means only 50K BIS. Less even if you fly Intra-Europe. Or F.
And this is a totally different approach from the North American FFP who don't reward premium class as such but rather give 100% on low Y classes. But this is a whole different discussion.
Better availability award which makes a big difference if you're European based
Companion award for SEN
This almost looks a recap of the FTaward voting poll.
And these are the reasons for me to stick around, now it's clear M&M is boiling us like frogs, one enhancement at the time, like Tyrolean so thoroughly demonstrates.
And these are the ones that bring frustration and may for some of us break the loyalty and the empathy.
For me the liberating moment came last year, when the award chart was enhanced. Sure I'll still try to keep SEN if I can, but I won't go out of my way as I did in the past, and especially to fly LH.
GBM
And with a CoS bonus of 200% for BiZ that means only 50K BIS. Less even if you fly Intra-Europe. Or F.
And this is a totally different approach from the North American FFP who don't reward premium class as such but rather give 100% on low Y classes. But this is a whole different discussion.
Better availability award which makes a big difference if you're European based
Companion award for SEN
This almost looks a recap of the FTaward voting poll.
And these are the reasons for me to stick around, now it's clear M&M is boiling us like frogs, one enhancement at the time, like Tyrolean so thoroughly demonstrates.
And these are the ones that bring frustration and may for some of us break the loyalty and the empathy.
For me the liberating moment came last year, when the award chart was enhanced. Sure I'll still try to keep SEN if I can, but I won't go out of my way as I did in the past, and especially to fly LH.
GBM
You are right, but I forgot to mention that all of my flights are intercontinental and I will never buy a Biz ticket, even less a First ticket. IMHO it is a complete waste of money.
Loyalty is a buzz word infiltrated by marketeers ( I know that, I am one of them ) . I am loyal to my family, I am loyal to my friends,I am even loyal to my country (as long as she behaves...) , but loyalty to a business company ??????? Try getting a delayed payment for a ticket if you have some troubled times, since you are loyal....
Sorry. its called opportunism. They take the opportunity from our money, and we take the opportunity being able to enter the lounge. and hoping for an upgrade
By the way, does the customer service dept. of LH even reads this forums ?
Dec 17, 2011, 10:59 pm
#28
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP->GM
Posts: 38,265
?
Dec 18, 2011, 12:16 am
#29
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Tokyo, Hong Kong & Barcelona (not in order of preference)
Programs: BA Gold, SPG Plat, LH SEN
Posts: 153
Having seen the changes to the BAEC come through over the last couple of months I'm amazed that, looking back, how poorly M&M handles their 'enhancements'.
BA were transparent and took the time to respond directly on this website.
I said this time last year that I would give up M&M and try another *A FFP, but here I am finishing 2011 with another 120k status miles. The value of the program has certainly diminished but it is still the FFP connected to the airline I fly with often (LX).
BA were transparent and took the time to respond directly on this website.
I said this time last year that I would give up M&M and try another *A FFP, but here I am finishing 2011 with another 120k status miles. The value of the program has certainly diminished but it is still the FFP connected to the airline I fly with often (LX).
Dec 18, 2011, 3:08 am
#30
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Point Place, Wisconsin
Programs: LH HON, BA Gold, EK Gold
Posts: 14,505