Closed Thread
Apr 17, 2002 | 8:45 am
#1
Original Poster
Suspended
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Hell.
Posts: 162
Closed Thread
I cant understand why the GB's thread about itins is closed (even temproarily). I wanted to express my opinion but am not allowed at this time! Was there a TOS violation there?
Dont mean to stir up trouble, but REALLY, it is a civil and somwhat important conversation. Why is it closed?
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"You are A Freak. You are A Freak. You are A Freak. You are A Freak."
-- Wingless, DUS-ORD, February 10, 2002...
Dont mean to stir up trouble, but REALLY, it is a civil and somwhat important conversation. Why is it closed?
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"You are A Freak. You are A Freak. You are A Freak. You are A Freak."
-- Wingless, DUS-ORD, February 10, 2002...
Apr 17, 2002 | 2:27 pm
#2
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: OMNI Award Winner, Recipient: Ol' Goal Personal Sootkase Tag Award. The Very Special Punki Authentic PiP Sootkase Tag, Pin, & T-Shirt. .........PRE-
Posts: 3,110
arturo wuld lik two supress hes onionpin elso. ef senor a freek haz enytheng two sey et wil bea guud.
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Loving, Caring, Honest, Intelligent, Empathetic, Creative, and Giving.
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Loving, Caring, Honest, Intelligent, Empathetic, Creative, and Giving.
Apr 17, 2002 | 5:23 pm
#3
Flyertalk Evangelist and Moderator: Coupon Connection and Travel Products
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Milton, GA USA
Programs: Hilton Diamond, IHG Platinum Elite, Hyatt Discoverist, Radisson Elite
Posts: 19,220
A Freak,
Feel free to express yourself here until it gets closed...
William
Feel free to express yourself here until it gets closed...
William
Apr 17, 2002 | 10:48 pm
#4
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Programs: lapsed UA 1K (now a lowly 2P), HGP Platinum
Posts: 9,607
Wow! I'm really giving everybody the wrong impression about me today, so I think I need to clarify something, and will then hope that you understand if I ask for feedback via email, rather than a post to this forum.
Firstly, about the "rules" on this forum. Unless the TalkBoard issues specific guidelines, the rules on this forum are the same as the rules on every other forum. Just because a critique of this forum was raised by one or more of the people who opposed the GLBT forum, does not, in fact, make it a new GLBT-TOS regulation.
So, as to the reason for leaving the itinerary thread open, and for reopening it, as I will, it's because it violates no part of the TOS. Topics often are appropriate for multiple forums, and it doesn't become off-topic just because another forum exists that would also be appropriate.
So that leaves the larger topic of why we have a moderator to begin with. I can only think of three possibilities:
[list=1][*]Gays and Lesbians, as a group are less trustworthy than Women, Air Canada Travelers, or any of the vast majority of FlyerTalk forums without moderators.[*]Gays and Lesbians have a special set of rules just for us that require special attention to ensure compliance.[*]A danger exists that those who disagree with this forum or its members will use the forum to attack or drag the forum into a constant discussion about itself instead of about gay travel.[/list=a]
I think that everyone, upon reflection would be pretty offended by 1 or 2, and as FlyerTalk is not an offensive place, I don't beleive they apply. Therefore, I'm here to prevent number 3, a drowning of this forum in discussion about itself. Yes, I'll also try to enforce all the TOS rules as well as they should be enforced, but this is the main focus.
Posts of the nature of "Is this on topic?" or "Shouldn't this be posted elsewhere?" or that sort of thing are off-topic and one of the very few things I'm interested in taking a hard line against.
A growing number of such posts in the itineraries thread are why the thread was temporarily closed, and I will repost them here, but leave this thread closed.
Hopefully everyone will have a chance to see it and take whatever action you feel appropriate before it ages off the front page in 5 days, and as I said, I'll welcome feedback via email or you may publicly comment outside of this forum. It just doesn't belong here, but I needed to, at least once, let you all know the reason I'm doing what I'm doing.
Firstly, about the "rules" on this forum. Unless the TalkBoard issues specific guidelines, the rules on this forum are the same as the rules on every other forum. Just because a critique of this forum was raised by one or more of the people who opposed the GLBT forum, does not, in fact, make it a new GLBT-TOS regulation.
So, as to the reason for leaving the itinerary thread open, and for reopening it, as I will, it's because it violates no part of the TOS. Topics often are appropriate for multiple forums, and it doesn't become off-topic just because another forum exists that would also be appropriate.
So that leaves the larger topic of why we have a moderator to begin with. I can only think of three possibilities:
[list=1][*]Gays and Lesbians, as a group are less trustworthy than Women, Air Canada Travelers, or any of the vast majority of FlyerTalk forums without moderators.[*]Gays and Lesbians have a special set of rules just for us that require special attention to ensure compliance.[*]A danger exists that those who disagree with this forum or its members will use the forum to attack or drag the forum into a constant discussion about itself instead of about gay travel.[/list=a]
I think that everyone, upon reflection would be pretty offended by 1 or 2, and as FlyerTalk is not an offensive place, I don't beleive they apply. Therefore, I'm here to prevent number 3, a drowning of this forum in discussion about itself. Yes, I'll also try to enforce all the TOS rules as well as they should be enforced, but this is the main focus.
Posts of the nature of "Is this on topic?" or "Shouldn't this be posted elsewhere?" or that sort of thing are off-topic and one of the very few things I'm interested in taking a hard line against.
A growing number of such posts in the itineraries thread are why the thread was temporarily closed, and I will repost them here, but leave this thread closed.
Hopefully everyone will have a chance to see it and take whatever action you feel appropriate before it ages off the front page in 5 days, and as I said, I'll welcome feedback via email or you may publicly comment outside of this forum. It just doesn't belong here, but I needed to, at least once, let you all know the reason I'm doing what I'm doing.
Apr 17, 2002 | 10:55 pm
#5
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Programs: lapsed UA 1K (now a lowly 2P), HGP Platinum
Posts: 9,607
dgolds
Posts: 2244
From: SFO -- CO Platinum Elite
Registered: Apr 99
posted 04-11-2002 06:33 AM
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OK, I know I haven't been very active here lately, but I'm going to gripe nevertheless.
I thought the idea of our GBLT board was to provide a place to talk about issues around gay travel. Why would you want to post itineraries here when there is a perfectly good place to do it on FlyerTalk?
IP: Logged
dfwoods
Posts: 25
From: Chicago
Registered: Sep 2001
posted 04-11-2002 07:11 AM
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dgolds -- I respectfully disagree with your position. None of us advocated foresaking the other board. However, there are times when I would like to check a rundown of where the gay FTs are going. This cross posting allows us to do that without having to sift through the other posts. Essentially, it is much like a sort function. I see nothing wrong with that.
IP: Logged
catwood
Posts: 393
From: Philadelphia, PA
Registered: Jun 2001
posted 04-11-2002 07:16 AM
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I would agree that cross posting isn't bad. I've posted my itinerary on the US Board as well.
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DEK
Posts: 41
From: Maine, USA
Registered: Feb 2001
posted 04-11-2002 08:18 AM
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Have deleted my original post....sorry to have offended anyone...!
[This message has been edited by DEK (edited 04-12-2002).]
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dgolds
Posts: 2244
From: SFO -- CO Platinum Elite
Registered: Apr 99
posted 04-11-2002 06:18 PM
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Well, for starters, the desciption of this board is:
quote:
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Share your tips, recommendations, and advice on gay travel here.
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Posting itineraries does none of the above. It "sorts" us out from the rest of the community. The post just above this one
quote:
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if your tentative trip to PWM on 7/26 turns into confirmed let me know and maybe we could meet up for drinks sometime that weekend
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is an example of what I mean - is the meeting for drinks arranged above going to be publicized anywhere else on FlyerTalk? Maybe yes, and I don't mean to pick on anyone by writing that.
Before this board (which I lobbied here to initiate for months, by the way) started there was some concern addressed that if it became a meet and greet place, it would split up what has effectively been one community. I think it's a legitimate concern.
Do we really want to ghettoize FlyerTalk?
IP: Logged
robb
Posts: 588
From: College Station, TX (IAH/AUS) - UA 1P
Registered: Feb 2001
posted 04-11-2002 07:06 PM
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dgolds, I'd be happy to take this topic up on email, but I'm much more concerned with the forum becoming about the forum itself rather than about gay travel.
IP: Logged
CanadianGuy
Posts: 20
From: Ft Lauderdale, FL
Registered: Jan 2002
posted 04-12-2002 01:09 PM
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Dgolds,
Sorry to disagree with you, but I think this forum is great, and I do not think in anyway it 'ghettoizes' FT.
Just my HO.
CanGuy
IP: Logged
wharvey
Posts: 1213
From: West Henrietta, NY, USA (suburb of Rochester)
Registered: Jul 2000
posted 04-13-2002 11:42 AM
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DGolds,
If someone wants to meet up with "family" when they travel, I believe this forum is the perfect place to do that... that would be "Gay Travel related" to me.
It seems like most people are posting on the community forum as well... so I do not see any problem with that.
William
IP: Logged
dgolds
Posts: 2244
From: SFO -- CO Platinum Elite
Registered: Apr 99
posted 04-15-2002 06:18 AM
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Canadian Guy: I think this forum is great, too. I lobbied for it for months. It's this particular discussion thread I object to.
wharvey: Exactly my point. Who is "family"? Other gay people or other FlyerTalkers?
Look, guys, I respect your opinion, and happen to disagree with it. No biggie. Why don't we agree to disagree and drop the subject as robb suggested?
IP: Logged
Doppy
Posts: 1575
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: May 2000
posted 04-15-2002 01:48 PM
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I'll have to agree with dgolds. One of the specific issues discussed before the forum was set up was that it was not supposed to take over for other fora, like FT Community for organizing get-togethers.
While I'm not opposed to cross-posting, I am opposed to only posting things here. That was a specific concern raised by members on both sides of the debate, and they were assured by supporters of the forum that this wouldn't become an exclusive place for posting things like itineraries and get-togethers.
The bottom line for me is that meeting/itinerary type information should only be posted here if it's going to be posted in the regular fora.
d
IP: Logged
robb
Posts: 588
From: College Station, TX (IAH/AUS) - UA 1P
Registered: Feb 2001
posted 04-15-2002 05:20 PM
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Thanks dgold, I appreciate it.
Doppy, et al., we can always discuss it on email or in the suggestions forum, but in the middle of a thread isn't the place to discuss it (You can't talk about what is Buzzworthy in the Buzz, and you can't talk about what is GLBT-worthy in the GLBT forum.)
IP: Logged
geo1004
Posts: 3358
From: Alexandria, Virginia, USA, - US Gold
Registered: Jan 99
posted 04-17-2002 06:50 AM
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Anyone care for an opinion from a "non-family" member?
Clearly, IMO, there are issues that are specific to GLBT travel. That's why I think the GLBT Travelers Forum is a good idea. What a great place to share travel info and ideas!
However, as a non-GLBT traveler, I'd be really disappointed to find that a FT gathering or a FT get together took place in my back yard and I missed it because I don't read the GLBT forum even though I do read the FT Community threads daily!?!?
And, hey, let's be honest here. If the purpose of the gathering is to meet other FT'ers who are potential partners, why can that not be posted in the FT Community thread the same way the NOLA Singles Gathering was a few months ago????
Posts: 2244
From: SFO -- CO Platinum Elite
Registered: Apr 99
posted 04-11-2002 06:33 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, I know I haven't been very active here lately, but I'm going to gripe nevertheless.
I thought the idea of our GBLT board was to provide a place to talk about issues around gay travel. Why would you want to post itineraries here when there is a perfectly good place to do it on FlyerTalk?
IP: Logged
dfwoods
Posts: 25
From: Chicago
Registered: Sep 2001
posted 04-11-2002 07:11 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dgolds -- I respectfully disagree with your position. None of us advocated foresaking the other board. However, there are times when I would like to check a rundown of where the gay FTs are going. This cross posting allows us to do that without having to sift through the other posts. Essentially, it is much like a sort function. I see nothing wrong with that.
IP: Logged
catwood
Posts: 393
From: Philadelphia, PA
Registered: Jun 2001
posted 04-11-2002 07:16 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would agree that cross posting isn't bad. I've posted my itinerary on the US Board as well.
IP: Logged
DEK
Posts: 41
From: Maine, USA
Registered: Feb 2001
posted 04-11-2002 08:18 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have deleted my original post....sorry to have offended anyone...!
[This message has been edited by DEK (edited 04-12-2002).]
IP: Logged
dgolds
Posts: 2244
From: SFO -- CO Platinum Elite
Registered: Apr 99
posted 04-11-2002 06:18 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, for starters, the desciption of this board is:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Share your tips, recommendations, and advice on gay travel here.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posting itineraries does none of the above. It "sorts" us out from the rest of the community. The post just above this one
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
if your tentative trip to PWM on 7/26 turns into confirmed let me know and maybe we could meet up for drinks sometime that weekend
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
is an example of what I mean - is the meeting for drinks arranged above going to be publicized anywhere else on FlyerTalk? Maybe yes, and I don't mean to pick on anyone by writing that.
Before this board (which I lobbied here to initiate for months, by the way) started there was some concern addressed that if it became a meet and greet place, it would split up what has effectively been one community. I think it's a legitimate concern.
Do we really want to ghettoize FlyerTalk?
IP: Logged
robb
Posts: 588
From: College Station, TX (IAH/AUS) - UA 1P
Registered: Feb 2001
posted 04-11-2002 07:06 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dgolds, I'd be happy to take this topic up on email, but I'm much more concerned with the forum becoming about the forum itself rather than about gay travel.
IP: Logged
CanadianGuy
Posts: 20
From: Ft Lauderdale, FL
Registered: Jan 2002
posted 04-12-2002 01:09 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dgolds,
Sorry to disagree with you, but I think this forum is great, and I do not think in anyway it 'ghettoizes' FT.
Just my HO.
CanGuy
IP: Logged
wharvey
Posts: 1213
From: West Henrietta, NY, USA (suburb of Rochester)
Registered: Jul 2000
posted 04-13-2002 11:42 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DGolds,
If someone wants to meet up with "family" when they travel, I believe this forum is the perfect place to do that... that would be "Gay Travel related" to me.
It seems like most people are posting on the community forum as well... so I do not see any problem with that.
William
IP: Logged
dgolds
Posts: 2244
From: SFO -- CO Platinum Elite
Registered: Apr 99
posted 04-15-2002 06:18 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Canadian Guy: I think this forum is great, too. I lobbied for it for months. It's this particular discussion thread I object to.
wharvey: Exactly my point. Who is "family"? Other gay people or other FlyerTalkers?
Look, guys, I respect your opinion, and happen to disagree with it. No biggie. Why don't we agree to disagree and drop the subject as robb suggested?
IP: Logged
Doppy
Posts: 1575
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: May 2000
posted 04-15-2002 01:48 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll have to agree with dgolds. One of the specific issues discussed before the forum was set up was that it was not supposed to take over for other fora, like FT Community for organizing get-togethers.
While I'm not opposed to cross-posting, I am opposed to only posting things here. That was a specific concern raised by members on both sides of the debate, and they were assured by supporters of the forum that this wouldn't become an exclusive place for posting things like itineraries and get-togethers.
The bottom line for me is that meeting/itinerary type information should only be posted here if it's going to be posted in the regular fora.
d
IP: Logged
robb
Posts: 588
From: College Station, TX (IAH/AUS) - UA 1P
Registered: Feb 2001
posted 04-15-2002 05:20 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks dgold, I appreciate it.
Doppy, et al., we can always discuss it on email or in the suggestions forum, but in the middle of a thread isn't the place to discuss it (You can't talk about what is Buzzworthy in the Buzz, and you can't talk about what is GLBT-worthy in the GLBT forum.)
IP: Logged
geo1004
Posts: 3358
From: Alexandria, Virginia, USA, - US Gold
Registered: Jan 99
posted 04-17-2002 06:50 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyone care for an opinion from a "non-family" member?
Clearly, IMO, there are issues that are specific to GLBT travel. That's why I think the GLBT Travelers Forum is a good idea. What a great place to share travel info and ideas!
However, as a non-GLBT traveler, I'd be really disappointed to find that a FT gathering or a FT get together took place in my back yard and I missed it because I don't read the GLBT forum even though I do read the FT Community threads daily!?!?
And, hey, let's be honest here. If the purpose of the gathering is to meet other FT'ers who are potential partners, why can that not be posted in the FT Community thread the same way the NOLA Singles Gathering was a few months ago????