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Originally Posted by DMark
(Post 7088919)
Regarding randomness of slots:
I have lived here long enough to have some amazing examples. A woman I worked with hit a Royal Flush on a machine. While waiting for the payout, she played the machine next to her and hit another Royal! I have personally seen people hit very large jackpots twice in a row on the same machine. Another guy I know hit four Royal Flushes on video poker machines in less than two hours! And rumor has it, some people don't win a damned thing for days/months/years in a row. Seems pretty random to me. I have 100's of hours experience on them and have not noted that happening. Pretty small sample I admit. |
Originally Posted by standby my man
(Post 7090570)
My experience with video poker is very limited-I've delved a little but found it boring, with not much chance for a big payout. Played one machine where 4
of a kind payed like 2 to 1. I know I must be missing something because they proliferate in all the casinos. Guess I need some advice as to which kind of machines are worth the effort. I know the payouts must be good, because the comp rates on them is much lower than regular slots. Any advice? On a standard video poker game, you get the same amount if you hit four of a kind anything - perhaps a bit more if it is Aces. On Double Double machines, for a maximum play of 5 coins, you get: 400 coins for four 2's, or four 3's, or four 4's. If your fifth card is an Ace, or one of the remaining 2, 3 or 4 cards, you get 800 coins! (That extra bonus card is called a "kicker") With four Aces, you get 800 coins, but if you get the "kicker" as well, that jumps up to 2000 coins! Believe it or not, getting that "kicker" happens often enough to make it the favorite game of locals. The major downside of Double Double is that you get the same return from one pair of Jacks or better as you do with two pair. So you have to use some different strategy when playing...for instance, if you get two Aces and two fives drawn to you, most locals would only keep the Aces - hoping for two more Aces (and perhaps the kicker) rather than keeping all four cards and shooting for the less profitable full house. The best rule of thumb for finding the best video poker machines is to see how much you get for a full house. 45 coins is excellent (there are a few machines that pay 50, but rare to find) and 40 is good, but 35 is not such a great deal. Without meaning to sound sexist, many local women prefer playing Deuces Wild (some local men as well) and they seem to do quite well at it. Again, it takes a different strategy when playing, but those who prefer the game claim they can play Deuces Wild for a longer time and keep winning a little bit, allowing them a longer play time chance to hit something bigger. Almost no locals play standard Video Poker...and keep an eye out for those progressive video poker machines! Some of those jackpots get really high (even for nickels and quarters) and the first hint is to see swarms of people playing at those banks of machines. |
Originally Posted by DMark
(Post 7091144)
The video poker game of choice for locals is called Double Double Video Poker.
Some games are have a postive ER; but you always have to weigh the variance of a given game (since the higher the variance the higher the volatility). That being said, Loose Deuces Wild has a Variance of 70.70 and a ER of 100.15%; but a much safer game is 8/5 Bonus Poker with an ER of 99.17% and a variance of 20.90. Probably the biggest complaint is finding the full pay machines in the denomination that you want on the strip --- but, in all cases, the ER on the worst video poker is much much better than slots (which can have an ER in the low 80% range) -- that is why the casinos give you fewer comps for VP play (in comparison to reel slot play). Of course, the above VP numbers assume you are playing perfectly, which folks seldom do --- especially with some of the more esoteric games. My suggestion would be to learn one strategy well (like 9/6 JoB which works well for 8/5 BP) and stick to that; and learn to identify the good full pay machines (which are often right next to the short pay (bad) machines). |
Originally Posted by standby my man
(Post 7090570)
My experience with video poker is very limited-I've delved a little but found it boring, with not much chance for a big payout. Played one machine where 4
of a kind payed like 2 to 1. I know I must be missing something because they proliferate in all the casinos. Guess I need some advice as to which kind of machines are worth the effort. I know the payouts must be good, because the comp rates on them is much lower than regular slots. Any advice? One thing to keep in mind is that VP machines are very strictly regulated in terms of using a "virtual" deck of cards. Therefore, VP machines make their margins by changing the payout. A common type of VP machine is a 9/6 Jacks or Better, where a full house pays 9 and a flush pays 6. Many casinos, though, particularly on the low-denom machines, "short" the machines, with a full house paying 8 and a flush paying 5, bringing your percentage down from 99.5% to just over 97%. It may not seem like a lot, but those few percentage points will have a drastic impact on how long you play. One of the above posters mentioned Las Vegas Advisor, to which I also subscribe. Through LVA, I bought "cheat sheet" index cards, which give you the mathematically correct move to make for any situation on several types of VP machines, as well as the pay schedules you should look for. They're worth the $10 or so that they will cost you. Mike |
Originally Posted by scott1212
(Post 7080719)
But casinos don't mind if people think there are "hot" machines or if people have rituals they perform for luck, etc. -- because the cold, hard facts of statistics aren't that exciting and if people only thought sensibly about the statistics, few people would gamble. So casinos are happy to oblige; one example of this is how they have the number boards that show what numbers and colors have hit on roulette wheel the past dozen or so spins. Those numbers are completely, statistically meaningless -- roulette spins are memoryless, meaning the current spin is not affected in any way by the result of prior spins. If red hits 20 times in a row, it is just as likely to hit on the 21st spin as black. But people like to find patterns, and instinctively think that the numbers are compelled to balance out, so the casino is happy to put the number history up if that makes people more emotionally vested in the gambling.
At this point people are going crazy....the dealer insists that in his 20 plus years, he has never seen it hit 4 times in a row. Folks from other tables come flocking over...and all of a sudden, hundred dollar bills are being placed on the double zero. (There must have been over 3k on that number alone). On the next spin....the ball bounces out of the double zero slot...and lands on another number. Patrons walk away unhappy...and the pit boss has a huge grin on his face. |
[QUOTE=scott1212;7082476]
Originally Posted by standby my man
(Post 7082223)
that would decrease the fun of slot machines because you would no longer have those hot or cold runs that make slot machines exciting
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I used to really like playing slots but obviously usually walked away in the red. For my last trip to LV, I decided that I'd try out VP and found it more enjoyable than the plain jane slots. Some of the funkier slots with the extra features are kind of fun though.
My comments and experiences as a beginning VP player: - I only had a few weeks before my trip so I decided to learn only one version. I chose JoB to keep it simple so I didn't have to remember other complexities. - Practiced using a free online java version so I could build my speed when playing basic hands - Printed a mini-strategy guide to take with me for ambiguous hands. Didn't have to whip it excessively but no one seemed to bat an eye when I did. - Have to play max coins of course at a rate you can handle (quarters for me). - Free slot credits are good for VP machines too. - Finding full pay JoB was pretty difficult. (Found a slew at the Hilton.) Ended up playing as low as 9/5 or 8/6 (I think??) on occasion. Found wide ranges of pay rates when walking through a casino so choose carefully. The result: Had some luck and ended up ahead by about $300 for under 10 hours of play, over three days, at multiple locations. I did play some slots and had a little luck but it wasn't as fun anymore. I'm definitely a converted VP player. |
The Hilton does indeed have a nice selection of decent video poker in the sportsbook area. It never ceases to amaze me to see all of the people playing VP in the adjoining main casino where the pay schedules are almost all inferior to the sportsbook.
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Originally Posted by DMark
(Post 7091144)
... So you have to use some different strategy when playing...for instance, if you get two Aces and two fives drawn to you, most locals would only keep the Aces - hoping for two more Aces (and perhaps the kicker) rather than keeping all four cards and shooting for the less profitable full house.
In fact, in DDBVP, if you draw a full house aces over any pair, dump the other pair -- your expected payback is better. |
[QUOTE=indyscott;7093449]
Originally Posted by scott1212
(Post 7082476)
In my gambling adventures I have experienced a few exciting hot runs, but never, ever an exciting cold run... :p I guess the cold runs make the hot runs more exciting, then. ;) |
Just for the info, the odds of 4 00's in a row is 1/38 to the 4th power-1 in
2,085,136, so it's not surprising that the dealer has never seen it happen. |
I don't understand why the slot return is set so much lower. What are the casinos thinking? I know it's Vegas, but the Peppermill in Reno advertises
99% return on slots, and, as someone mentioned, the regulators have pretty strong oversight. |
Originally Posted by standby my man
(Post 7097576)
I don't understand why the slot return is set so much lower. What are the casinos thinking? I know it's Vegas, but the Peppermill in Reno advertises
99% return on slots, and, as someone mentioned, the regulators have pretty strong oversight. |
DM, please forget that part of my comment - it was totally dumb. I have seen where overall payout is near top for the Peppermill and substantially
better than the strip proper. But, why do the regular slots pay out so much less than most of the poker? I guess they figure the innocent suckers will play them. |
Originally Posted by standby my man
(Post 7098686)
DM, please forget that part of my comment - it was totally dumb. I have seen where overall payout is near top for the Peppermill and substantially
better than the strip proper. But, why do the regular slots pay out so much less than most of the poker? I guess they figure the innocent suckers will play them. I remember now! As a game of skill, the odds of winning at VP are required by law to be the same, whether you wager a nickel, a quarter or a dollar. As a game of chance, casinos are allowed to vary the odds of winning according to the wager: $.05 cent slots 70% payout, $.25 85% payout, $1.00 slots 94% $5.00 slots 99% payout, etc, for example: basically, whatever they want. Good Luck!!! |
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