fokker50

KL 792 from GRU to AMS this Saturday (14.06) is zeroed out in almost all classes (according to EF there are 2 left S class seats - J0 C0 S2 B0). I assume it is oversold flight already and I would not mind staying in Brazil a day longer. What would be the best strategy in order to be bumped off - to check in early as possible and volunteer or to present myself at the counter just before check-in cut off time?

fokker50

So how does KL usually handle overbookings (especially at GRU)? Do they seek volunteers at the check-in, do they seek volunteers at the gate or do they just bump excess paxs at the check-in? Somebody should know. Thanks.

fokker50

According to Expertflyer flight is completely zeroed out now.. J0 C0 S0 B0

jetfan

Well there are a few things you could do:
* don't check-in online and show up just before counter closing time. Chance they were hoping you would not show up. Downside: if they asked for volunteers earlier you will get the worst seat in the plane
* check-in online and try to secure a good seat (aisle, bulkhead etc), they may be more willing to offload you if you volunteer and at least if there are many no-shows you will have a decent seat
* check-in on-time and ask
*check-in online and come 1 min before closing and kick up a big fuss that they have given your seat away (if that is the case)

One word of caution: KL Capacity Control apparently use quite sophisticated algorithms and usually get just right. I have not witnessed situations where many people were denied boarding, other than when there was an operational hickup like long delay, cancellation etc.

Brobbel

I did once: from CUR to AMS they asked for some volunteers in the high season, but for me this was the only tiime I saw a flight under normal circumstances overbooked.

I found another flight from CUR to AMS also overbooked, but in that case the flight the day before was cancelled (as a matter of fact, on the trip AMS-CUR a week earlier exactly the same happened then).

HB-IWC

I wouldn't expect to be bumped off this flight. Although the booking engines seem as if the flight is terribly oversold, it is really not. The actual stats show the load to be a couple of seats below capacity. Some of the listed nonrevs may be left behind though. In case people are indeed bumped, there is still an Air France flight which has seats available.

af fp

Which is good because the bumped passenger gets to cash the DBC and fly a few hours later.

fokker50

Well, as it turned out flight KL792 WAS overbooked. Not sure by how many, but when I arrived at GRU 75 minutes before departure, KLM was transferring paxs to AF flight. It almost worked out for me -- I had IDB voucher (for 300 euro only) in my hand, but then, for my displeasure , it suddenly appeared that I have seat on KL flight as I had, according to KLM, checked-in on internet. All I did was that I changed my seat number last night (without completing check-in (or so I thought), but apparently this also constitutes check-in.
Live and learn.

Escape

a question: are you elite? because then the chance that they'll 'IDB' you is smaller - when OLCI-ed. Did you try volunteering?

fokker50

Yes, I am FB Platinum. I also did try to volunteer after it appered that they have seat to me and explained to the Japanese lady in charge of check-in that I would be more than happy to give up my seat for someone who n e e d s to be on nonstop to ams, but she seemed to be quite suspicious about my intentions and told me that flight is almost closed already (which was true - flt was closing). She probably suspected that I had willingly completed OLCI (and by doing so helped flight to become overbooked) and then tried to claim IDB compensation and tried to cheat KLM -- or at least this is how it felt, although she did not say it.
all in all not so big deal at all.

klm312

This must have been the first time since long time that a GRU was completely full, was the flight operated by a 772 or an 77W?

klm312

HB-IWC

The GRU route has been doing better for the past weeks, particularly in the weekend. Midweek flights are still pretty empty. The OP's flight was operated by B772 PH-BQB.

These are the loads for KL791 AMS GRU for this month of June (including nonrev traffic):

SUN01JUN 417/425 B77W PH-BVA
MON02JUN 296/327 B772 PH-BQG
TUE03JUN 252/425 B77W PH-BVB
WED04JUN 179/425 B77W PH-BVA
THU05JUN 165/327 B772 PH-BQM
FRI06JUN 235/327 B772 PH-BQG
SAT07JUN 313/327 B772 PH-BQH
SUN08JUN 397/425 B77W PH-BVA
MON09JUN 285/327 B772 PH-BQA
TUE10JUN 276/425 B77W PH-BVB
WED11JUN 163/425 B77W PH-BVA
THU12JUN 165/327 B772 PH-BQD
FRI13JUN 252/425 B77W PH-BVB
SAT14JUN 290/327 B772 PH-BQB
SUN15JUN 366/425 B77W PH-BVB
MON16JUN 244/327 B772 PH-BQA
TUE17JUN 190/425 B77W PH-BVB
WED18JUN 181/327 B772 PH-BQI
THU19JUN 192/327 B772 PH-BQC
FRI20JUN 307/425 B77W PH-BVB
SAT21JUN 291/327 B772 PH-BQG

klm312

Happily KL791/792 is improving, the numbers show a loadfactor of 70%, far better than before but still not great, hope KLM can continue this positive trend. However what still puzzles me is the 77W deployment on Tuesday and Wednesday. These seems to be the most quiet days in the week with Saturday and to a lesser extent Monday showing much better passenger numbers. Any chances KLM will change the operational days for a more optimal deployment? Also are there still chances that the 77W will be completely shifted away from GRU, now that it's performing somewhat better?

klm312

HB-IWC

One has to look at the big picture for the B77W deployment. The aircraft has to go somewhere, even on the quieter midweek days. For the time being, MNL is the destination that is most optimally filling up the B77W seats, yet increased deployment to MNL is all but impossible because of the MNL schedule, which effectively leaves the aircraft on the ground overnight in AMS after return. KLM has already a couple of times sent he B77W to CAI after its return from MNL but what's the point of sending such a large aircraft if it's not even half filled?

So, for the time being, the B77Ws operate to GRU, MNL and JFK, although KLM has been busy with ad hoc substitutions of the aircraft on other routes based on demand. As such, PH-BVA is today deployed to ACC because of high loads and the AMS JFK route is receiving a B772 instead.

B77W scheduling and utilization will likely improve as more aircraft join the fleet so I would presume that this situation is only temporary. As to the deployment to GRU, advanced bookings for the winter are being monitored and it is possible that the aircraft ends up elsewhere. CPT seems a prime candidate to replace GRU in winter if that ever happens.

Personally, I believe that the key to better B77W utilization is to be found by thinking outside the box: take the B77W/B772 away from MNL, and send the full pax B744 there daily. Send the B77W to SFO/JFK (summer) and DEL/GRU or DEL/CPT (winter) instead. Those are just my thoughts though...

klm312

HB-IWC,

I agree with your thoughts and I also think that that is an more optimal deployment, but in person I also think that the 77W has to be reconfigured, either with a second WBC cabin or an real Y+ cabin ( the best is ofcourse both) to be really succesfull, on any route. An deployment to much more stations could then be possible.
What's the status on this? The plan was to reconfigure PH-BVA/PH-BVB at the time when PH-BVC/PH-BVD join the fleet early next year. Is this still the plan?

At least I'm happy GRU is improving, just hope that the results in the transatlantic sector won't drop to much due to some kind of beginning economic downfall.

klm312