Buzz
Feb 25, 2003 | 3:23 am
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Buzz
Holiday plans of Buzz customers may be in jeopardy
By Ananova
Ryanair has cancelled all Buzz flights in April and is said to be ready to drop key holiday destinations from the summer timetable.
The holiday plans of more than 100,000 people have been thrown into disarray because Ryanair is tearing up the schedule of Buzz, the rival budget airline it took over last month.
The Times says people who bought cheap tickets in advance will now have to rebook more expensive ones or accept an alternative Ryanair flight to a different airport.
Thousands of families, who bought properties in remote parts of France served by the Stansted-based Buzz, such as Bergerac, Limoges, and Dijon, may find their airports deleted from Ryanair's schedule.
Several of Buzz's 21 routes, including Paris, Amsterdam and Frankfurt, are likely to be dropped permanently.
The Air Transport Users Council said: "It's an appalling way to treat passengers but that's what we have come to expect from Ryanair, sadly."
A Buzz spokesman said passengers would receive a refund if their flight was cancelled but claims for compensation would be rejected.
KLM, Buzz's Dutch parent company which sold it for 15 million, advised passengers not to book Buzz flights beyond March until Ryanair had revealed which routes would survive. It described Ryanair's failure to inform passengers of its intentions as irresponsible.
Only 55,000 people who had booked with Buzz from Bournemouth have been told that their flights are definitely cancelled. A group of these passengers is planning legal action to recover losses on hotel and car hire bookings.Buzz refused to give an y details of how many passengers had booked tickets for April, saying that Ryanair now controlled the release of all information.
A Ryanair spokesman said: "You will have to speak to Buzz. We will be announcing details of the reorganisation before the end of February."
Copyright Ananova 2003 all rights reserved
25/02/03 08:15
By Ananova
Ryanair has cancelled all Buzz flights in April and is said to be ready to drop key holiday destinations from the summer timetable.
The holiday plans of more than 100,000 people have been thrown into disarray because Ryanair is tearing up the schedule of Buzz, the rival budget airline it took over last month.
The Times says people who bought cheap tickets in advance will now have to rebook more expensive ones or accept an alternative Ryanair flight to a different airport.
Thousands of families, who bought properties in remote parts of France served by the Stansted-based Buzz, such as Bergerac, Limoges, and Dijon, may find their airports deleted from Ryanair's schedule.
Several of Buzz's 21 routes, including Paris, Amsterdam and Frankfurt, are likely to be dropped permanently.
The Air Transport Users Council said: "It's an appalling way to treat passengers but that's what we have come to expect from Ryanair, sadly."
A Buzz spokesman said passengers would receive a refund if their flight was cancelled but claims for compensation would be rejected.
KLM, Buzz's Dutch parent company which sold it for 15 million, advised passengers not to book Buzz flights beyond March until Ryanair had revealed which routes would survive. It described Ryanair's failure to inform passengers of its intentions as irresponsible.
Only 55,000 people who had booked with Buzz from Bournemouth have been told that their flights are definitely cancelled. A group of these passengers is planning legal action to recover losses on hotel and car hire bookings.Buzz refused to give an y details of how many passengers had booked tickets for April, saying that Ryanair now controlled the release of all information.
A Ryanair spokesman said: "You will have to speak to Buzz. We will be announcing details of the reorganisation before the end of February."
Copyright Ananova 2003 all rights reserved
25/02/03 08:15
Feb 25, 2003 | 3:53 am
#2
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I wonder why Ryanair does it this way. The pax will know that it is Rayanair, not buzz, acting this way. And it could be a huge financial risk for them. Based on european customer laws there should be a way to sue them if you got a confirmed booking and now sit on your car-rental and hotel booking...
Feb 25, 2003 | 5:14 am
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ralfkrippner:
I wonder why Ryanair does it this way. The pax will know that it is Rayanair, not buzz, acting this way. And it could be a huge financial risk for them. Based on european customer laws there should be a way to sue them if you got a confirmed booking and now sit on your car-rental and hotel booking...</font>
I wonder why Ryanair does it this way. The pax will know that it is Rayanair, not buzz, acting this way. And it could be a huge financial risk for them. Based on european customer laws there should be a way to sue them if you got a confirmed booking and now sit on your car-rental and hotel booking...</font>
Sure they will get bad publicity, but they reckon that people do not expect good (or even reasonable) customer service with them. As long as you offer low prices, customers will book. And judging by Ryanair's profits, their calculations are right.
As to European Law, we are in a very grey area here. Haven't checked Buzz's T&Cs, but I would suspect that they are similar to Ryanair's, which limit their liability to a refund of the fare paid. So, it boils down to whether these T&Cs constitute unfair contract terms in terms of the legislation, which is a very grey area, especially as all airlines T&Cs exclude liability for consequential damage.
Feb 25, 2003 | 5:59 am
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I'm no lawyer but I have some knowledge about legislation about T&C. I don't think that they can effectively restrict their liability for consequential damage after they did confirm a booking. If the airline confirms your booking and you make arrangements for hotel and car-rental they cannot just announce that they cancelled this connection and you only get the paid fare back IMO.
But even if it's a grey area, they risk substantial money with so many bookings cancelled. No wise decission IMO...
But even if it's a grey area, they risk substantial money with so many bookings cancelled. No wise decission IMO...
Feb 25, 2003 | 10:16 am
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Ralf, I really do not know what piece of legislation you have in mind, because I can't think of any apart from the unfair contract terms directive.
Neither the denied-boarding regs nor the package tour directive would be applicable here.
To my knowledge, ALL airlines deny consequential liability for flight cancellations, for whatever reason.
By way of comparison, here is what BA T&Cs state, which are pretty typical of what you find among full-service carriers, never mind no-frills ones:
3) If we:
cancel a flight
fail to operate a flight reasonably according to the schedule
fail to stop at your place of stopover or destination or
cause you to miss a connecting flight on which you hold a confirmed reservation
you can choose one of the three remedies set out immediately below.
Remedy 1
We will carry you as soon as we can on another of our scheduled services on which a seat is available. If we do this, we will not charge you extra and where necessary, will extend the validity period of your ticket.
Remedy 2
We will re-route you within a reasonable period of time to the destination shown on your ticket using either our services or those of another airline, or by some other means which you have agreed with us can be used (for example, by rail). If you are re-routed, we will not charge you extra. If the fare, taxes, fees and charges for the re-routed journey are lower than the amount you have already paid, we will refund you the difference.
Remedy 3
We will give you an involuntary fare refund.
The above three remedies will be the only remedies available to you and we will have no further liability to you except as may be provided by the convention.
Neither the denied-boarding regs nor the package tour directive would be applicable here.
To my knowledge, ALL airlines deny consequential liability for flight cancellations, for whatever reason.
By way of comparison, here is what BA T&Cs state, which are pretty typical of what you find among full-service carriers, never mind no-frills ones:
3) If we:
cancel a flight
fail to operate a flight reasonably according to the schedule
fail to stop at your place of stopover or destination or
cause you to miss a connecting flight on which you hold a confirmed reservation
you can choose one of the three remedies set out immediately below.
Remedy 1
We will carry you as soon as we can on another of our scheduled services on which a seat is available. If we do this, we will not charge you extra and where necessary, will extend the validity period of your ticket.
Remedy 2
We will re-route you within a reasonable period of time to the destination shown on your ticket using either our services or those of another airline, or by some other means which you have agreed with us can be used (for example, by rail). If you are re-routed, we will not charge you extra. If the fare, taxes, fees and charges for the re-routed journey are lower than the amount you have already paid, we will refund you the difference.
Remedy 3
We will give you an involuntary fare refund.
The above three remedies will be the only remedies available to you and we will have no further liability to you except as may be provided by the convention.
Feb 26, 2003 | 8:10 am
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...which is fair on options 1 and 2, but Ryanair/buzz can't offer them IMO. Option 3 is fair if they also take over the cost of your cancelled hotel/car reservations. They can not just cancel their flight without any liability if they did confirm your booking already. I'm quite sure on that and I guess that at least a german court would also say so. They decide to cancel the flight - they have to pay you for your expenses.
A valid contract was made and now they decide to cancel it one-sided. A clear case of "Schadenersatz wegen Nichterfllung" by german laws (and I guess other countries have similar things). They can't exclude such things by T&C's as this would actually break a law - therefore option 3 alone is not valid if you had spent any money for hotel/car already.
I wonder what this decission will cost them...
[This message has been edited by ralfkrippner (edited 02-26-2003).]
A valid contract was made and now they decide to cancel it one-sided. A clear case of "Schadenersatz wegen Nichterfllung" by german laws (and I guess other countries have similar things). They can't exclude such things by T&C's as this would actually break a law - therefore option 3 alone is not valid if you had spent any money for hotel/car already.
I wonder what this decission will cost them...
[This message has been edited by ralfkrippner (edited 02-26-2003).]
Feb 26, 2003 | 8:29 am
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12 routes cut, up to 400 jobs redundant, planes reduced from 12 to 8 to include 6 737's and 2 146's.
Cut routes:
Charles de Gaulle
Dijon
Amsterdam
Marseille
Toulon
Tours
Bergerac
Caen
Geneva
Chambery
Brest
Almeria
They do NOT include Frankfurt or Berlin at present.
As we know, April flights are cancelled. 'Ryanair said the restructuring plans would be presented to staff and creditors over the next few days, after which a final decision would be taken on whether to restart some flights on 1 May or close the airline altogether. '
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2800471.stm
Cut routes:
Charles de Gaulle
Dijon
Amsterdam
Marseille
Toulon
Tours
Bergerac
Caen
Geneva
Chambery
Brest
Almeria
They do NOT include Frankfurt or Berlin at present.
As we know, April flights are cancelled. 'Ryanair said the restructuring plans would be presented to staff and creditors over the next few days, after which a final decision would be taken on whether to restart some flights on 1 May or close the airline altogether. '
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2800471.stm
Feb 26, 2003 | 8:50 am
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Feb 26, 2003 | 10:22 am
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ralfkrippner:
...which is fair on options 1 and 2, but Ryanair/buzz can't offer them IMO. Option 3 is fair if they also take over the cost of your cancelled hotel/car reservations. They can not just cancel their flight without any liability if they did confirm your booking already. I'm quite sure on that and I guess that at least a german court would also say so. They decide to cancel the flight - they have to pay you for your expenses.
A valid contract was made and now they decide to cancel it one-sided. A clear case of "Schadenersatz wegen Nichterfllung" by german laws (and I guess other countries have similar things). They can't exclude such things by T&C's as this would actually break a law - therefore option 3 alone is not valid if you had spent any money for hotel/car already.
I wonder what this decission will cost them...
[This message has been edited by ralfkrippner (edited 02-26-2003).]</font>
...which is fair on options 1 and 2, but Ryanair/buzz can't offer them IMO. Option 3 is fair if they also take over the cost of your cancelled hotel/car reservations. They can not just cancel their flight without any liability if they did confirm your booking already. I'm quite sure on that and I guess that at least a german court would also say so. They decide to cancel the flight - they have to pay you for your expenses.
A valid contract was made and now they decide to cancel it one-sided. A clear case of "Schadenersatz wegen Nichterfllung" by german laws (and I guess other countries have similar things). They can't exclude such things by T&C's as this would actually break a law - therefore option 3 alone is not valid if you had spent any money for hotel/car already.
I wonder what this decission will cost them...
[This message has been edited by ralfkrippner (edited 02-26-2003).]</font>
FYI, KLM (in the UK, at any rate) takes the same line. A few years back, they moved my flight by several hours, which would have resulted in my incurring losses on onward bookings (train, hotels,...). The line that they took was that they would offer me a reimbursement of the flight and that's it. Eventually, we managed to find a solution to the problem. However, they would not have been ready to reimburse consequential damage.
I am far from sure that I would have had a remedy in UK law and I would most certainly not have had a remedy in EU Law.