Don't dare try to access the Schengen lounge at AMS as PE with 2 kids
Aug 12, 2005, 9:26 am
#16
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: London
Programs: BAEC Silver, Vietnam Airlines Lotusmiles Platinum
Posts: 2,375
Originally Posted by alanw
Ugh. This nightmare is still fresh in my mind.
Wednesday I walked into the AF lounge in BCN ahead of my DL flight to SEA. Within moments, a family came in with two small children, maybe 5 and 7 years old (this is in addition to the large american family in sweats and flip-flops, including one teenage boy with his shoes off asleep on the floor in front of the magazines). These kids were well-educated (perfect English and Catalan) obviously from a private school. But they were LOUD. They SHOUTED everything. For 25 minutes we sat and listened, from the other end of the lounge, to these little ****s carried on talking, squealing, laughing. I realize they're kids, but take it outside.
It was a relief to hear the flight called. When I arrived at my seat, who was right next to me in a completely full C cabin but those same little twits. Throughout the flight the mother kept refilling them with Coke and sweets and they kept up the racket the entire flight.
When we got to the lounge in ATL, they were there, at the next bloody table.
When we got on the flight to SEA, they were there, in the two seats next to me. And they never shut up, not once.
When I run an airline, the kids are going into cages in the hold.
Wednesday I walked into the AF lounge in BCN ahead of my DL flight to SEA. Within moments, a family came in with two small children, maybe 5 and 7 years old (this is in addition to the large american family in sweats and flip-flops, including one teenage boy with his shoes off asleep on the floor in front of the magazines). These kids were well-educated (perfect English and Catalan) obviously from a private school. But they were LOUD. They SHOUTED everything. For 25 minutes we sat and listened, from the other end of the lounge, to these little ****s carried on talking, squealing, laughing. I realize they're kids, but take it outside.
It was a relief to hear the flight called. When I arrived at my seat, who was right next to me in a completely full C cabin but those same little twits. Throughout the flight the mother kept refilling them with Coke and sweets and they kept up the racket the entire flight.
When we got to the lounge in ATL, they were there, at the next bloody table.
When we got on the flight to SEA, they were there, in the two seats next to me. And they never shut up, not once.
When I run an airline, the kids are going into cages in the hold.
Originally Posted by PJK
Are you sure the kids were not yours? 
twinks - well, maybe alanw's
Aug 12, 2005, 10:26 am
#17
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Edinburgh
Programs: BA Gold, Hilton Gold
Posts: 366
I prefer loud obnoxious adults to kids as I have no problem being rude to adults. However I see no reason why you should be allowed two kids when the rules say one guest.
If I travel with my parents should both of them be allowed in the lounge? The fact is that they are a lot less likely to annoy other passengers unless people find my mother drinking tea and my father doing the crossword annoying.
I fail to see the difference except for the fact that my parents would be paying full fare and the kids wouldn't.
It may be a coincidence but invariably the people with the annoying kids are the most demanding and annoying themselves.
If I travel with my parents should both of them be allowed in the lounge? The fact is that they are a lot less likely to annoy other passengers unless people find my mother drinking tea and my father doing the crossword annoying.
I fail to see the difference except for the fact that my parents would be paying full fare and the kids wouldn't.
It may be a coincidence but invariably the people with the annoying kids are the most demanding and annoying themselves.
Aug 12, 2005, 12:26 pm
#18
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: JNB
Programs: Air France Platinum - Qatar Airways Gold
Posts: 1,659
Originally Posted by simonsmith
On several occasions when I have heard enough about company secrets or other such I have politely asked someone to turn the volume down.
Aug 12, 2005, 4:05 pm
#19
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vientian, Laos and Paris, France
Posts: 111
When pigs fly
Originally Posted by Emma65
... a cat had gotten out of it's cage. Managed to get in to the cockpit and clawed the pilots.
/E
/E
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/995503.stm
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/US/10/27/when.pigs.fly.ap/
BTW, as you can see, I am being fair and balanced : there are other airlines up there with AF.
Aug 12, 2005, 8:14 pm
#20
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: PDX
Programs: Alaska Airlines, CO Emeritus, United kettle, Ural Airlines Wings, Hilton, National
Posts: 979
Originally Posted by Jerene
They are not shouting, they are just talking in a normal American conversational voice. Which is why you get the puzzled look when you complain.
Luckily I had been to England and knew that all Brits were not total asses.
Aug 13, 2005, 7:33 am
#21
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: NYC
Posts: 9,123
It would depend on the age of your kids - if they are small they should let you take them in as you do not ahve the option to leave one of them outside. If they are older or adults (e.g. parents) one person can easily do their own thing for the time you use the lounge so that is a weak comparisson. I would think it is good customer service/the decent thing to do - to let a parent with 2 small children in.
Aug 13, 2005, 8:39 am
#22
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Stirling, Scotland
Programs: Amex Centurion - BA Silver - IHG Diamond Elite - HHonors Diamond - M&M
Posts: 2,013
Originally Posted by Froggee
However I see no reason why you should be allowed two kids when the rules say one guest.
Now good customer service would have been to apologise and explain that there are new polocies that only allow a PE to have one guest and also apologise that new policies do not allow the purchase of lounge vouchers. No need to mention (blame) AF in any way.
I fail to see the difference except for the fact that my parents would be paying full fare and the kids wouldn't.
A kid at 11 travelling on a C class fare can't access KLM's own lounge at Glasgow or the Servisair lounge at Edinburgh. Now is that fair?
It may be a coincidence but invariably the people with the annoying kids are the most demanding and annoying themselves.
Last edited by pmcg; Aug 13, 2005 at 8:43 am
Aug 13, 2005, 9:19 am
#24
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: MSP
Programs: Hilton Gold, SPG PLAT, NWA Plat
Posts: 645
Originally Posted by pmcg
First thing I asked was if "I could buy a lounge voucher for the second kid as I knew that as PE I was only allowed access with 1 guest". OK I knew I could not buy a voucher anymore but it is new news and I thought that the agent may be flexible since it was a small child and after all I am "Elite Plus" with this airline.
Aug 13, 2005, 9:42 am
#25
Join Date: May 1998
Posts: 6,790
Two comments:
1. Some airlines (United for one) allow an elite, or a member of their airline club, to bring in a specified number of guests (usually one, sometimes two) or their accompanying family members, even if more than the authorized number of guests. They realize that asking a passenger to leave his family at the door is rude (and basically unworkable if children are involved) while effectively denying access to their elite if (s)he is flying with family is not going to gain them any good-will points. Too bad FB hasn't figured this out.
2. The out-of-control kids problem seems mainly limited (in my experience) to Americans and Koreans. As to the Americans, I put it down to a guy named Spock (no relation to the one with the ears) who has persuaded most of a whole generation of American parents that they're going to irrevocably impair their little darling's psyche if they don't allow the kid to run wild. Other cultures put a higher premium on civilizing their children and teaching them responsibility and consideration of others. (I'm not sure what causes it with the Koreans, but it seems to mainly affect the boys, not the girls, so maybe a cultural attitude toward male children has something to do with it?)
At least, that has been my observation.
1. Some airlines (United for one) allow an elite, or a member of their airline club, to bring in a specified number of guests (usually one, sometimes two) or their accompanying family members, even if more than the authorized number of guests. They realize that asking a passenger to leave his family at the door is rude (and basically unworkable if children are involved) while effectively denying access to their elite if (s)he is flying with family is not going to gain them any good-will points. Too bad FB hasn't figured this out.
2. The out-of-control kids problem seems mainly limited (in my experience) to Americans and Koreans. As to the Americans, I put it down to a guy named Spock (no relation to the one with the ears) who has persuaded most of a whole generation of American parents that they're going to irrevocably impair their little darling's psyche if they don't allow the kid to run wild. Other cultures put a higher premium on civilizing their children and teaching them responsibility and consideration of others. (I'm not sure what causes it with the Koreans, but it seems to mainly affect the boys, not the girls, so maybe a cultural attitude toward male children has something to do with it?)
At least, that has been my observation.
Aug 13, 2005, 1:21 pm
#26
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Stirling, Scotland
Programs: Amex Centurion - BA Silver - IHG Diamond Elite - HHonors Diamond - M&M
Posts: 2,013
Originally Posted by ewj
Why do people with kids feel they deserve special (flexible) treatment and people who do not give it are somehow being mean spirited. Shame on the parents. Shame - Shame.
I posted this thread to point out the way the agent responded, not because I did not get any "special treatment".
Aug 13, 2005, 10:31 pm
#27
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Edinburgh
Programs: BA Gold, Hilton Gold
Posts: 366
Apologies to pmcg - I wasn't having a go.
My father was a strong believe that there should be a separate section of planes, lounges etc for smokers, children, japanese etc - basically everybody that wasn't him.
I always search out "quiet areas" when I can and invariably find that people with mobile phones do as well. it makes it easier for them to carry out their conversation. Typically on pointing out one of the several NO MOBILE TELEPHONES signs they act surprised that someone would dare complain.
One time this happened in the TV area of some random lounge in the states (Northwest at Minneapolis maybe) and the guy huffed and puffed and every time he made (or received) a call he got up and stood at the entrance to the area so he could still see the TV and I could still hear his every word.
Needless to say (being British) I did nothing further.
My father was a strong believe that there should be a separate section of planes, lounges etc for smokers, children, japanese etc - basically everybody that wasn't him.
I always search out "quiet areas" when I can and invariably find that people with mobile phones do as well. it makes it easier for them to carry out their conversation. Typically on pointing out one of the several NO MOBILE TELEPHONES signs they act surprised that someone would dare complain.
One time this happened in the TV area of some random lounge in the states (Northwest at Minneapolis maybe) and the guy huffed and puffed and every time he made (or received) a call he got up and stood at the entrance to the area so he could still see the TV and I could still hear his every word.
Needless to say (being British) I did nothing further.
Aug 14, 2005, 6:15 am
#28
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: NYC
Posts: 9,123
Originally Posted by ewj
Why do people with kids feel they deserve special (flexible) treatment and people who do not give it are somehow being mean spirited. Shame on the parents. Shame - Shame.
Aug 14, 2005, 1:02 pm
#29
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,352
Originally Posted by Counsellor
Some airlines (United for one) allow an elite, or a member of their airline club, to bring in a specified number of guests (usually one, sometimes two) or their accompanying family members, even if more than the authorized number of guests.
Originally Posted by pmcg
an agent who blamed AF for the new policies
Johan
Aug 15, 2005, 6:17 am
#30
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Programs: FB Plat, SPG Plat, Meridien Moments Gold
Posts: 448
Originally Posted by Falco Peregrinus
One funny thing to do, when they're done with their call, is to make a (noisy) dummy call with your own mobile, repeating more or less what they've just said
Touchy subject. Personally I think (and many with me) that a parent's behavior is projected on their children. Rude, loud, or obnoxious children tend to have parents with those same properties. I always wondered what the trade-offs would be to create some sort of "silent" room inside a lounge.
Never seen it before...