Have just been to the UK section on klm.com and have noticed that KLM have made some improvements (yes, improvements! to their booking engine:

- The full fare (including taxes) is now shown early on. Previously one had to enter one's name, address and inside leg measurement before the system would come up with the full fare (at least when booking Action Fares - I don't know how the main booking engine handled this)

- They seem to be in the process of establishing a link between the booking engine and the FD database - in theory you're now supposed to be able to book by just filling in your FD number and the system will retrieve your details from that. I'm saying "in theory" because it doesn't actually work!

- The Action Fares booking engine is now linked to the main booking engine - if there is no Action Fare available for your chosen date you can pick a more expensive one rather than having to abandon the whole process

These are the good points. The big "minus" is that the system still won't give you any indication whatsoever whether your fare qualifies for miles. I did another dummy booking for my friend Mr Michael Mouse, and it let me go all the way to the bit where I enter his credit card details without telling me whether or not the fare I selected (the cheapest) qualifies for miles.

The reason why it did not tell you about the miles is because the system knows that Michael Mouse is head of IT and he never flies anywhere with KLM

When booking flights and looking for the "take off fares" the site does actually provide the information below. Firstly with a link under the price then on the flight selection page before you fill in your name.. It does seem to be quite clear about what you can and cannot earn on now, Although 200 Euro for a return trip to LHR which does not earn miles is hardly competitive with the 80 Euro fare from Easyjet to LGW......

Flea, explain to me what is clear bout this:


How do I know if I booked one of the two lowest Take Off Fares??

The page where you insert the passenger details into gives the information whether you can earn miles on each segment that you have booked. If you are booked on the 'take off' fare then you can see that you are not able to earn miles.

If you are booked on flights with a fare that will earn miles then I guess that you do not see the message which explains the take off fare restrictions.

I attempted to book earlier today (March, ATH-FRA-ATH), and the page into which one should fill-in the personal details didn't include any message of that kind. I then consistently got a number of error messages, and I gave up. At any rate, let's assume Flea's correct, then no message would mean that in a valid booking one would be getting miles. But if he's wrong, one would find out at check-in, at the earliest, that there are no miles. That there is no refund and the fact that even this ticket would have possibly cost much, much more than on a LCC would already be known!

Being an experimental scientist, I know that an experiment with a negative result means nothing. Conclusion: I'll wait till somebody has an answer that is based on "hard data", or till they "fix" the booking engine.

here I come.

I can at least speak to them and find out booking classes before either online OR telephone

I can find no indication - when using the normal booking engine - whether FD miles are included. Even on a 'European Promotion' fare - which looks to be in E (and thus no miles now) there is absolutely no mention of FD miles eligibility.

You're right: this message is clear indeed!
"From Amsterdam (Schiphol) to Madrid: No miles will be earned." (depending on your destination and fare, of course...)

You can also recognize the various Take Off Fares now at the 'calendar', so you can see which ones are the two lowest ones.

Remains one question: How to book if you really want Miles, i.e. you want to pay more than the cheapest Take Off fare available...

I just did a fake booking on the Dutch and on the UK sites - to Madrid on March 12 returning 19th.

On the Dutch site fairly on I got warned : NO miles will be earned.

On the UK site I was able to get to the paying stage before I found out that this was an E-class fare (but I saw no warnings saying that I would earn no miles )

The lowest Take-Off fares are booked in N class, the second lowest in E and the third in T. The two lowest fares will therefore not earn miles.

johan

OK, so "Take-Off" fares booked in N and E don't earn miles, that much I understand. The lowest online AMS-CPH-AMS fare is �89, and the lowest CPH-AMS-CPH fare is DKK 500 (�66.25). This is advertised as a Base fare, and according to the Danish KL website Base fares earn miles. There is also a "Dream" fare, which actually costs DKK 50 more! Not a word about miles for that one.

Why am I confused?

johan

Is the new European Fare structure only applicable on flights starting in Amsterdam?

Are we back to the old time when FD members outside The Netherlands earn more Miles (then Points) than Dutch FD members?

When you book a return ticket from Aberdeen to AMS and you select the promotion fare GBP 40 (excl. GBP 55 tax, surcharge, etc.), you do NOT get a warning that you won't earn Miles. And it's an 'Economy Base' fare - 'Take Off' is not mentioned anywhere on the UK web site.

Let's be confused together

It seems to me that the sensible thing to do is NOT to expect miles on any "cheap" economy fare. Even if the website is patchy about saying which fares do and which don't earn miles I really don't fancy a protracted battle with the helpdesk after every European flight!

Dambus, does that mean you're going to fly KLM even without miles?