FlyingBlonde89

I'm currently on a short flight CDG-AMS and the guy in the isle is very large. He's overspilling quite significantly into the middle seat and the armrest won't go down. The poor woman who is in the middle seat looked visibily concerned when she realised she was expected to wedge herself in the seat next to him.

Staff have said nothing (so far) and with the doors about to close and the flight being full it seems like there's not a lot of options.

What should be happening here? Is the onus really on the woman next to him to know the policy and attract attention and flag the issue? Have you ever been in this situation with KLM? What happened? Are you a passenger of size with insight to share?

Policy: https://www.klm.nl/en/information/assistance-health/passenger-of-size

skycruiserNL

KLM:
Says enough. If the armrest cannot be down normally, I surely would mention it to a crewmember and request my seatmate , or me, to be re-seated. Then it's up to the crew on how to deal with the issue.

MileageRunner68

A few years back my OH was sat next to a big guy who was in the middle seat on a full long haul flight. OH had the aisle seat, the guy in the window seat was getting squeezed and couldn't go anywhere. OH ended up flying in the jumpseat, so the big guy could move to the aisle seat and the guy in the window seat could breath again. Everyone had to get back to their original seats only for landing.

FlyingBlonde89

​​​​​It was a full flight, seatmate didn't say anything and it didn't feel like my place to. I leaned into the window and the woman next to me was able to get some space from the other side. The armrest on the other side was either fully up or at an approx. 40° angle (from horizontal) for the whole flight (it wouldn't have fit down).

I can't think of much more awkward than complaining/commenting to the FA about it especially on a full flight when the option is offload or do nothing.

I have a friend who is a 'passenger of size' and they're always nervous about flying because of their size but never want to spend on an extra seat or even legroom. I'm surprised KLM doesn't make a bigger fuss about sticking to their own policy. I understand why if you're a big person you may just roll the dice on it to save €€ but is there really no compassion for the seatmate?

FlyingBlonde89

I mean, that just feels ridiculous. It's a way of coping but it's not addressing the issue. Was this the solution offered by the FA/purser?

cvision

Having had this in 2009 on SFO-MUC, I can say that it's horrible, for any period of time. Added in, that the FAs said "well, we just want to make you miss your bed at home more". Seriously.
​​​​​​

MileageRunner68

Yes, it was. OH is not one to argue, so he accepted it. I was asleep most of the flight (sitting on the other side of the aisle) and had no idea what was going on.

irishguy28

If the people impacted are happy enough with the situation not to draw attention to it, then surely that's the end of the matter

FlyingUnderTheRadar

While the airlines have rules in place, you will find that the GA and FA do not want enforcement them. Because they do not want to be accused of "discriminating" again a passenger. As such, the smaller PAX will be the one to make a change. That is my experience. Which in my case the GA refused to do anything. However, a pilot deadheading offered to swap seats. So I sat in a middle seat next to toilets while he was crammed against the window. Upon returning I filed a complaint and asked for a monetary compensation. Which was given.

As such, what to do? One needs to be proactive and if happening be willing to stand (sit?) your ground. Which depending on how far one wants to push might mean taking a later flight.

Magnum9

I can definitely understand the uncomfortable situation a GA or FA is put in when enforcing these rules against passengers of size. That said - their job IS to enforce rules that KLM puts in place, so by ignoring them they're in violation of the job duties they're being paid to do.

A GA or FA won't be liable for discrimination for enforcing rules that KLM corporate puts in place for safety reasons. If the passenger wants to cry discrimination then it's KLM corporate leadership they need to take it up with.

roberino

If neither pax says anything then there's nothing that will be done by the FA's. I've been in this situation four times over 20 years or so (all overnight long haul, by coincidence) and each time discretely said something to a FA away from the POS's earshot before we left the gate. They always asked me to "sit down and we will sort something out later", to which I politely responded that if they don't have an alternative seat I'd rather fly later when they have space. All four times they magically found another seat for me (three upgrades, one middle seat further back).

San Gottardo

Why does "discrimination" only go one way? Why are they suspected/accused of discriminating if they ask passengers of size to move, or move passengers next to them (which is the same in the sense of pointing to the person of size being the "problem")? It's also discriminating the normal-sized passenger having to endure a flight next to someone of size, which is a security issue. Other normal sized passengers have a right to normal safety, but the person who gets to sit next to the person of size doesn't? Sounds like discrimination to me.

Magnum9

I would handle the situation as you did. However, this is where things get dicey.

Many people simply hate conflict and won't say anything. This tends to be especially true if the passenger being made to squeeze in a seat next to an obese passenger is female and the person of size is male. Either way - I personally think a FA shouldn't ignore the issue simply because the passenger who's being squeezed hasn't spoken up.

When FA's are going up and down the aisle checking that bags are properly underneath the seat in front of them and seatbelts are fastened that this is also the appropriate time a FA should ask the passenger of size to please put down their armrest all the way if it's raised. IF it won't go down fully then the FA must deal with it. It should be no different than a FA ignoring someone who hasn't fastened their seatbelt before pushback from the gate.

AlanInDC

I'm surprised that having a regular pax in the jump seat for most of a flight is within regulations.

FlyingUnderTheRadar

I should add and emphasize that in my post I used the word "discriminate" in quotes because that was literally what the GA said to me. My retort was something to the affect of I was not asking them to discriminate, but was asking to be able to fully utilize my seat. That was when the pilot offered to swap seats with me. Going forward and as said by @roberino that is my SOP.