KL672 YUL-AMS terminated on Fridays. Compensation...
Jan 29, 2019, 9:13 pm
#1
Suspended
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2019
Programs: AF/KL FB Gold (E+) TK Elite (*G) QR Gold (OW Sapphire) IHG Platinum, B&W Diamont, Ascott Gold
Posts: 115
KL672 YUL-AMS terminated on Fridays. Compensation...
Hi, new poster with a question.
I have been flying CPH-YUL quite a number of times the last one and a half years. All on KL, AF or DL metal.
On the 25 (5 hours prior to departure) I was checking in online for KL672 and had a message that I should contackt the checkin desk at YUL.
I called KLM which offered to rebook me to Swiss as the flight had been permanently terminated on fridays.
I had not been informed of this which was really annoying, but it has nothing to do with my question.
Here comes my concern:
I have of course been asking for compensation as my arrival in CPH was with an approximate 24 hours delay, as I chose to take KL672 on Saturday.
Can any body explain to me why my ticket numbers changed several times?
The original trip has number 074..... 744-745 for the out and inbound.
Then changed to 074.....160 for the two inbound legs, after the cancellation.
And now ending up, after I checked, with all 5 legs having the ticket number 074....744 (as my 3 original outbound legs).
My question is, will this have an effect on my compensation claim, as it seems really odd to me?
Thanks in advance for your input!
I have been flying CPH-YUL quite a number of times the last one and a half years. All on KL, AF or DL metal.
On the 25 (5 hours prior to departure) I was checking in online for KL672 and had a message that I should contackt the checkin desk at YUL.
I called KLM which offered to rebook me to Swiss as the flight had been permanently terminated on fridays.
I had not been informed of this which was really annoying, but it has nothing to do with my question.
Here comes my concern:
I have of course been asking for compensation as my arrival in CPH was with an approximate 24 hours delay, as I chose to take KL672 on Saturday.
Can any body explain to me why my ticket numbers changed several times?
The original trip has number 074..... 744-745 for the out and inbound.
Then changed to 074.....160 for the two inbound legs, after the cancellation.
And now ending up, after I checked, with all 5 legs having the ticket number 074....744 (as my 3 original outbound legs).
My question is, will this have an effect on my compensation claim, as it seems really odd to me?
Thanks in advance for your input!
Jan 29, 2019, 10:46 pm
#2
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: PHX
Programs: Delta 2M DM, Southwest A List and CP
Posts: 1,102
So, they offered you a different flight on a different carrier on the same day, and you voluntarily opted for flying KLM the next day? Not sure there will be any compensation as it was a voluntary change of dates. The various ticket numbers indicate that they have rebooked the ticket a couple of times, which is normal after a schedule change.
Jan 30, 2019, 12:46 am
#3
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,739
If you decide to travel on a different date - albeit that the "decision" to do so was not at all your idea, but your response to the rebooking offered to get you home as close to your original schedule - then you lose the right to "late arrival" compensation (unless the flight on which you asked to be rebooked on the subsequent date was itself delayed, of course).
To get the "late arrival" compensation based on your originally-scheduled arrival time, you would have had to have gone with the Swiss ticket, or whatever alternative KLM proposed as the "best" option for same-day travel (in this case, you would also have been able to claim miles for the originally-booked KL flight - and for the Swiss flight if you have any *A frequent flyer programme)
Jan 30, 2019, 3:54 am
#4
Suspended
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2019
Programs: AF/KL FB Gold (E+) TK Elite (*G) QR Gold (OW Sapphire) IHG Platinum, B&W Diamont, Ascott Gold
Posts: 115
Thank you for the replies!
The reason for not choosing the Swiss flight were, that it was not possible to reach as it had an earlier departure then KL672.
When I called KLM because I was not able to check in online. There were about four and a half hours to departure
Had KLM proactively informed me of KL672's cancelation when it happened some 2 weeks earlier I would of course had chosen Swiss, for double dip reasons.
In regards to the ticket numbers, I thought of guessed so. It just looked weird that they changed a ticket number that had already been changed and flown.
The reason for not choosing the Swiss flight were, that it was not possible to reach as it had an earlier departure then KL672.
When I called KLM because I was not able to check in online. There were about four and a half hours to departure
Had KLM proactively informed me of KL672's cancelation when it happened some 2 weeks earlier I would of course had chosen Swiss, for double dip reasons.
In regards to the ticket numbers, I thought of guessed so. It just looked weird that they changed a ticket number that had already been changed and flown.
Jan 30, 2019, 5:17 am
#5
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,057
Thank you for the replies!
The reason for not choosing the Swiss flight were, that it was not possible to reach as it had an earlier departure then KL672.
When I called KLM because I was not able to check in online. There were about four and a half hours to departure
Had KLM proactively informed me of KL672's cancelation when it happened some 2 weeks earlier I would of course had chosen Swiss, for double dip reasons.
In regards to the ticket numbers, I thought of guessed so. It just looked weird that they changed a ticket number that had already been changed and flown.
The reason for not choosing the Swiss flight were, that it was not possible to reach as it had an earlier departure then KL672.
When I called KLM because I was not able to check in online. There were about four and a half hours to departure
Had KLM proactively informed me of KL672's cancelation when it happened some 2 weeks earlier I would of course had chosen Swiss, for double dip reasons.
In regards to the ticket numbers, I thought of guessed so. It just looked weird that they changed a ticket number that had already been changed and flown.
Jan 30, 2019, 5:35 am
#6
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,739
(And yes - if a flight departs more than X hours before the originally-scheduled departure, compensation would fall due. I can't remember exactly what X is in this instance, for a long-haul flight, but I think it is just 2)
It may seem a little unfair, particularly given the late notice and the OP's inability to arrive early enough to accept that Swiss flight, but as far as the regulation is concerned, if the traveller chooses to travel on a different date, over and above the "quickest possible" travel offered, then the whole issue of a "delayed arrival" is moot (the customer actively chose to travel on a different date, above travelling on the closest alternative flight offered).
(If the SWISS flight had not been offered, and the quickest/best/only option offered to the traveller was to travel on KL672 the following day, then they would clearly be entitled to "late arrival" compensation. However, an earlier option was offered, and rejected).
Jan 30, 2019, 6:05 am
#8
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Presuming that KL did fail to notify OP of the cancellation at whatever information OP had provided, e.g. email address, TA's address and so on, then OP is likely due compensation. At less than a week, KL cannot escape compensation by offering a departure prior to the scheduled time of the original ticket (at 7+ days the proffered reroute could be as much as an hour earlier). Thus, presuming there was no other reroute offered which would have resulted in a less than 4 hour delay on arrival at the final ticketed destination, this should be a simple enough claim.
Ticket number changes are irrelevant and an internal matter for KL. Whether it requires a reissue or simply changes a ticket does not affect OP's passenger rights.
Ticket number changes are irrelevant and an internal matter for KL. Whether it requires a reissue or simply changes a ticket does not affect OP's passenger rights.
Jan 30, 2019, 6:12 am
#9
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: FR
Programs: FB Plat
Posts: 299
Article 5 of (EU) 261/2004 states in its 1.
And article 8 states:
As far as I understand, OP has been offered a re-rerouting as foreseen by the (a) of Article 5.1. He had then choosen for option (c) of Article 8.1 (re-routing at passenger's convenience).
Separately, and no matter of its decision regarding the choice offered by Article 8, OP may be eligible to a compensation if the Swiss flight has departed more than 1 hour before its original scheduled departure time (which should be the case if he has been offered a seat on LX87).
In case of cancellation of a flight, the passengers concerned shall:
(a) be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 8; and
(b) be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 9(1)(a) and 9(2), as well as, in event of re-routing when the reasonably expected time of departure of the new flight is at least the day after the departure as it was planned for the cancelled flight, the assistance specified in Article 9(1)(b) and 9(1)(c); and
(c) have the right to compensation by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 7, unless:
(i) they are informed of the cancellation at least two weeks before the scheduled time of departure; or
(ii) they are informed of the cancellation between two weeks and seven days before the scheduled time of departure and are offered re-routing, allowing them to depart no more than two hours before the scheduled time of departure and to reach their final destination less than four hours after the scheduled time of arrival; or
(iii) they are informed of the cancellation less than seven days before the scheduled time of departure and are offered re-routing, allowing them to depart no more than one hour before the scheduled time of departure and to reach their final destination less than two hours after the scheduled time of arrival.
(a) be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 8; and
(b) be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 9(1)(a) and 9(2), as well as, in event of re-routing when the reasonably expected time of departure of the new flight is at least the day after the departure as it was planned for the cancelled flight, the assistance specified in Article 9(1)(b) and 9(1)(c); and
(c) have the right to compensation by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 7, unless:
(i) they are informed of the cancellation at least two weeks before the scheduled time of departure; or
(ii) they are informed of the cancellation between two weeks and seven days before the scheduled time of departure and are offered re-routing, allowing them to depart no more than two hours before the scheduled time of departure and to reach their final destination less than four hours after the scheduled time of arrival; or
(iii) they are informed of the cancellation less than seven days before the scheduled time of departure and are offered re-routing, allowing them to depart no more than one hour before the scheduled time of departure and to reach their final destination less than two hours after the scheduled time of arrival.
Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered the choice between:
(a) - reimbursement within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3), of the full cost of the ticket at the price at which it was bought, for the part or parts of the journey not made, and for the part or parts already made if the flight is no longer serving any purpose in relation to the passenger's original travel plan, together with, when relevant,
- a return flight to the first point of departure, at the earliest opportunity;
(b) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at the earliest opportunity; or
(c) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at a later date at the passenger's convenience, subject to availability of seats.
(a) - reimbursement within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3), of the full cost of the ticket at the price at which it was bought, for the part or parts of the journey not made, and for the part or parts already made if the flight is no longer serving any purpose in relation to the passenger's original travel plan, together with, when relevant,
- a return flight to the first point of departure, at the earliest opportunity;
(b) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at the earliest opportunity; or
(c) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at a later date at the passenger's convenience, subject to availability of seats.
Separately, and no matter of its decision regarding the choice offered by Article 8, OP may be eligible to a compensation if the Swiss flight has departed more than 1 hour before its original scheduled departure time (which should be the case if he has been offered a seat on LX87).
Jan 30, 2019, 8:03 am
#10
Suspended
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2019
Programs: AF/KL FB Gold (E+) TK Elite (*G) QR Gold (OW Sapphire) IHG Platinum, B&W Diamont, Ascott Gold
Posts: 115
For me it seems, I'm still eligible for compensation as several suggests.
I'll keep you posted on the progress.
I'll keep you posted on the progress.
Jan 30, 2019, 8:26 am
#11
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: PVG, FRA, SEA, HEL
Programs: UA Premier Gold
Posts: 4,783
I called KLM which offered to rebook me to Swiss as the flight had been permanently terminated on fridays.
As the flight has been cancelled and OP was not notified at least 14 days beforehand, article 7 kicks in.
KL has to pay compensation of at least EUR 300. Whether EUR 300 or EUR 600 depends on whether OP would have arrived more or less than 4 hours later at his final destination with the LX alternative, offered by KL.
Jan 30, 2019, 8:41 am
#12
Suspended
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2019
Programs: AF/KL FB Gold (E+) TK Elite (*G) QR Gold (OW Sapphire) IHG Platinum, B&W Diamont, Ascott Gold
Posts: 115
Thanks, I have come to the same conclusion, as some of you, that I'm entitled to some kind of compensation.
I'll keep you posted on the progress....
I'll keep you posted on the progress....
Jan 30, 2019, 9:11 am
#14
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
As far as I understand, OP has been offered a re-rerouting as foreseen by the (a) of Article 5.1. He had then choosen for option (c) of Article 8.1 (re-routing at passenger's convenience).
Separately, and no matter of its decision regarding the choice offered by Article 8, OP may be eligible to a compensation if the Swiss flight has departed more than 1 hour before its original scheduled departure time (which should be the case if he has been offered a seat on LX87).
Separately, and no matter of its decision regarding the choice offered by Article 8, OP may be eligible to a compensation if the Swiss flight has departed more than 1 hour before its original scheduled departure time (which should be the case if he has been offered a seat on LX87).
If there has been no advance notice of the cancelation and there are no extraordinary circumstances, the entitlement to compensation arises as soon as the airline fails to offer a rerouting departing no more than one hour before or arriving no more than two hours later than originally planned. What the passenger decides to do next does not change anything to that. Even if the passenger were to decide to apply for a refund, there is nothing in the reg that says that they should be denied the compensation specified in Art 5(1)(c).
Jan 30, 2019, 1:44 pm
#15
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,057