Passengers removed due to weight balance!
Apr 15, 2009, 8:02 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2
Passengers removed due to weight balance!
I was on JetBlue 91 from JFK to OAK on Apr 9.
About 10 minutes after everyone boarded and they closed the cabin doors,
the cabin doors were opened again and a JetBlue agent came on board.
He called off the names of about 6 passengers and asked them to identify themselves. He then said that because of "wing weight and balance issues",
everyone who was flying standby had to leave the plane, and their
luggage would be offloaded and returned to them. Some very unhappy people
got up and left. Then he picked several remaining passengers and asked
them to move to different seats, again citing "wing weight and balance issues".
The rest of us were stunned.
Has anyone else experienced this or know what the back story is?
About 10 minutes after everyone boarded and they closed the cabin doors,
the cabin doors were opened again and a JetBlue agent came on board.
He called off the names of about 6 passengers and asked them to identify themselves. He then said that because of "wing weight and balance issues",
everyone who was flying standby had to leave the plane, and their
luggage would be offloaded and returned to them. Some very unhappy people
got up and left. Then he picked several remaining passengers and asked
them to move to different seats, again citing "wing weight and balance issues".
The rest of us were stunned.
Has anyone else experienced this or know what the back story is?
Apr 15, 2009, 8:11 pm
#2
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Slightly to the left of center
Posts: 3,475
Not uncommon to limit number of passengers on a plane and/or shuffle them around to balance the plane out, but this is more common on smaller regional planes. Certainly after the door is closed to the plane, and everyone is seated, is probably not too common.
The weight count (passengers+cargo) should be performed earlier I think. But, maybe a late change in flight path and/or unexpected weather enroute might require extra fuel and the need to offload some folks? Just some thoughts
The weight count (passengers+cargo) should be performed earlier I think. But, maybe a late change in flight path and/or unexpected weather enroute might require extra fuel and the need to offload some folks? Just some thoughts
Apr 15, 2009, 8:27 pm
#3
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
If the winds were strong they would need to offload pax to lighten the load so as to avoid a fuel stop. On a full plane balance is generally less of an issue, though if they had some particularly heavy and dense cargo moving bodies around above might be necessary.
At the end of the day I trust those computers they use quite a bit to get that stuff right and if I'm told to move for W&B I do it without fail. Better for the plane to go up at the end of the runway than not.
At the end of the day I trust those computers they use quite a bit to get that stuff right and if I'm told to move for W&B I do it without fail. Better for the plane to go up at the end of the runway than not.
Apr 15, 2009, 8:59 pm
#4
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: IAD
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 292
I've been asked to move only a few times, and even then only on the E190, and when there were only a few people (less than 10) on the flight. sbm12 was probably right in that it was to avoid a fuel stop.
If any of those passengers weren't standby, though, wouldn't they receive the $1000 denied boarding compensation? I definitely wouldn't mind waiting around until the next flight if that was the case.
If any of those passengers weren't standby, though, wouldn't they receive the $1000 denied boarding compensation? I definitely wouldn't mind waiting around until the next flight if that was the case.
Apr 15, 2009, 9:22 pm
#5
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 377
There is no backstory. Prior to departure, the flight crew must perform weight and balance calculations on the aircraft to ensure that it can be safely operated on the available runways and in flight through a specified flight plan (taking into account weather activity). If there's an issue, then some weight must be either removed or redistributed to allow safe operation.
Standby customers know that at any time, for any reason, they may be asked to deplane and rebook.
Standby customers know that at any time, for any reason, they may be asked to deplane and rebook.
Apr 15, 2009, 9:49 pm
#7
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Programs: AA Gold AAdvantage Elite, Rapids Reward
Posts: 38,326
So what is reason why some passengers has been removed off the aircraft due to weight restrictions? So what about the luggage will be removed off the cargo hold. So it extremely very uncomfortable for the customers who is not standby on the flight. So he will try fly next flight out of JFK-OAK. So I think it would be very extremely headwinds over transcons flight in between Arizona & Nevada or Utah. I think the winds will be settle down by few days to getting better for those days. So the weight balance are very heavy for the luggage who already into the cargo hold.
Apr 15, 2009, 9:56 pm
#8
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2
There is no backstory. Prior to departure, the flight crew must perform weight and balance calculations on the aircraft to ensure that it can be safely operated on the available runways and in flight through a specified flight plan (taking into account weather activity). If there's an issue, then some weight must be either removed or redistributed to allow safe operation.
Standby customers know that at any time, for any reason, they may be asked to deplane and rebook.
Standby customers know that at any time, for any reason, they may be asked to deplane and rebook.
Since the calculations are that critical, I assume they would have also bumped regular passengers if there weren't enough standby passengers
to bump.
Can they weigh the entire loaded plane or are they just guessing based on the baggage weight? Since they don't weigh the passengers, what would have happened if the flight has an excess of obese passengers or skinny/child passengers.
Apr 15, 2009, 10:04 pm
#10
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,624
They use a standard weight per passenger, and IIRC it's 150 pounds, which is too low but that's what the book says to do. Also IIRC the aircraft prefers to have weight toward the front rather than the rear. Unloading luggage is a problem because you have to match passengers with luggage if you don't want even more irate passengers.
Apr 16, 2009, 7:41 am
#11
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Orlando, FL, US
Programs: DL-Dirt Medallion;US-Cast Iron Preferred; HH-Gold; Avis First
Posts: 3,617
Apr 16, 2009, 9:58 am
#12
Original Member, Moderator: Hotel Deals and MilesBuzz
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 14,257
Even though the passengers were standby, once they are issued a confirmed seat assignment, they are no longer standby.
I sure hope they received IDB compensation.
I sure hope they received IDB compensation.
Apr 16, 2009, 10:10 am
#13
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: NYC
Programs: SPG, AA, BA, CO, UA, US, B6, DL, Amex MR, HH
Posts: 1,009
Wirelessly posted (Apple iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5F136 Safari/525.20)
Not sure where the $1000 figure comes from, but if they needed to remove confirmed pax, they should have asked for volunteers first. In the case where they did remove anyone non-voluntarily, they should have been paid IDB compensation of the ticket price for that segment or two times the ticket price of the segment, depending on how long the they were delayed to their destination. Those figures are capped at $400/$800. The full rules are here.
The current numbers are 190 summer, 195 winter. This includes carry-on luggage, but not checked. Children 2-13 are counted as 82/87 pounds. See the end of this article for more details.
The $1000 figure comes from B6's own Passenger Bill of Rights that states that IDB compensation is $1000.
Originally Posted by djk7
Apr 16, 2009, 11:08 am
#14
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: IAD
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 292
Not sure where the $1000 figure comes from, but if they needed to remove confirmed pax, they should have asked for volunteers first. In the case where they did remove anyone non-voluntarily, they should have been paid IDB compensation of the ticket price for that segment or two times the ticket price of the segment, depending on how long the they were delayed to their destination. Those figures are capped at $400/$800. The full rules are here.
Customers who are involuntarily denied boarding shall receive $1,000.
Apr 16, 2009, 11:31 am
#15
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: MSY (finally); previously NYC, BOS, AUH
Programs: AA EXP, 6MM; BA GLD
Posts: 17,248
Where is this stated? Is it in the contract of carriage? DOT regs?