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Passengers removed due to weight balance!

Passengers removed due to weight balance!

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Old Apr 15, 09, 8:02 pm
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Passengers removed due to weight balance!

I was on JetBlue 91 from JFK to OAK on Apr 9.

About 10 minutes after everyone boarded and they closed the cabin doors,
the cabin doors were opened again and a JetBlue agent came on board.
He called off the names of about 6 passengers and asked them to identify themselves. He then said that because of "wing weight and balance issues",
everyone who was flying standby had to leave the plane, and their
luggage would be offloaded and returned to them. Some very unhappy people
got up and left. Then he picked several remaining passengers and asked
them to move to different seats, again citing "wing weight and balance issues".
The rest of us were stunned.

Has anyone else experienced this or know what the back story is?
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Old Apr 15, 09, 8:11 pm
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Not uncommon to limit number of passengers on a plane and/or shuffle them around to balance the plane out, but this is more common on smaller regional planes. Certainly after the door is closed to the plane, and everyone is seated, is probably not too common.

The weight count (passengers+cargo) should be performed earlier I think. But, maybe a late change in flight path and/or unexpected weather enroute might require extra fuel and the need to offload some folks? Just some thoughts
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Old Apr 15, 09, 8:27 pm
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If the winds were strong they would need to offload pax to lighten the load so as to avoid a fuel stop. On a full plane balance is generally less of an issue, though if they had some particularly heavy and dense cargo moving bodies around above might be necessary.

At the end of the day I trust those computers they use quite a bit to get that stuff right and if I'm told to move for W&B I do it without fail. Better for the plane to go up at the end of the runway than not.
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Old Apr 15, 09, 8:59 pm
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I've been asked to move only a few times, and even then only on the E190, and when there were only a few people (less than 10) on the flight. sbm12 was probably right in that it was to avoid a fuel stop.

If any of those passengers weren't standby, though, wouldn't they receive the $1000 denied boarding compensation? I definitely wouldn't mind waiting around until the next flight if that was the case.
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Old Apr 15, 09, 9:22 pm
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Originally Posted by rockridge98 View Post
Has anyone else experienced this or know what the back story is?
There is no backstory. Prior to departure, the flight crew must perform weight and balance calculations on the aircraft to ensure that it can be safely operated on the available runways and in flight through a specified flight plan (taking into account weather activity). If there's an issue, then some weight must be either removed or redistributed to allow safe operation.

Standby customers know that at any time, for any reason, they may be asked to deplane and rebook.
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Old Apr 15, 09, 9:38 pm
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A320s with full fuel are a little bit sensitive to load balance.
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Old Apr 15, 09, 9:49 pm
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Originally Posted by nsx View Post
A320s with full fuel are a little bit sensitive to load balance.
So what is reason why some passengers has been removed off the aircraft due to weight restrictions? So what about the luggage will be removed off the cargo hold. So it extremely very uncomfortable for the customers who is not standby on the flight. So he will try fly next flight out of JFK-OAK. So I think it would be very extremely headwinds over transcons flight in between Arizona & Nevada or Utah. I think the winds will be settle down by few days to getting better for those days. So the weight balance are very heavy for the luggage who already into the cargo hold.
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Old Apr 15, 09, 9:56 pm
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Originally Posted by caphis View Post
There is no backstory. Prior to departure, the flight crew must perform weight and balance calculations on the aircraft to ensure that it can be safely operated on the available runways and in flight through a specified flight plan (taking into account weather activity). If there's an issue, then some weight must be either removed or redistributed to allow safe operation.

Standby customers know that at any time, for any reason, they may be asked to deplane and rebook.
OK, that does make sense. It is sobering though to think that a fully booked plane may be too heavy to fly safely without offloading.
Since the calculations are that critical, I assume they would have also bumped regular passengers if there weren't enough standby passengers
to bump.
Can they weigh the entire loaded plane or are they just guessing based on the baggage weight? Since they don't weigh the passengers, what would have happened if the flight has an excess of obese passengers or skinny/child passengers.
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Old Apr 15, 09, 10:01 pm
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So was it a situation where a full plane couldn't have made it without a fuel stop?
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Old Apr 15, 09, 10:04 pm
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Originally Posted by rockridge98 View Post
Can they weigh the entire loaded plane or are they just guessing based on the baggage weight? Since they don't weigh the passengers, what would have happened if the flight has an excess of obese passengers or skinny/child passengers.
They use a standard weight per passenger, and IIRC it's 150 pounds, which is too low but that's what the book says to do. Also IIRC the aircraft prefers to have weight toward the front rather than the rear. Unloading luggage is a problem because you have to match passengers with luggage if you don't want even more irate passengers.
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Old Apr 16, 09, 7:41 am
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Originally Posted by seanherron View Post
If any of those passengers weren't standby, though, wouldn't they receive the $1000 denied boarding compensation? I definitely wouldn't mind waiting around until the next flight if that was the case.
Not sure where the $1000 figure comes from, but if they needed to remove confirmed pax, they should have asked for volunteers first. In the case where they did remove anyone non-voluntarily, they should have been paid IDB compensation of the ticket price for that segment or two times the ticket price of the segment, depending on how long the they were delayed to their destination. Those figures are capped at $400/$800. The full rules are here.

Originally Posted by nsx View Post
They use a standard weight per passenger, and IIRC it's 150 pounds, which is too low but that's what the book says to do.
The current numbers are 190 summer, 195 winter. This includes carry-on luggage, but not checked. Children 2-13 are counted as 82/87 pounds. See the end of this article for more details.
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Old Apr 16, 09, 9:58 am
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Even though the passengers were standby, once they are issued a confirmed seat assignment, they are no longer standby.

I sure hope they received IDB compensation.
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Old Apr 16, 09, 10:10 am
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Originally Posted by djk7
Originally Posted by seanherron View Post
If any of those passengers weren't standby, though, wouldn't they receive the $1000 denied boarding compensation? I definitely wouldn't mind waiting around until the next flight if that was the case.
Not sure where the $1000 figure comes from, but if they needed to remove confirmed pax, they should have asked for volunteers first. In the case where they did remove anyone non-voluntarily, they should have been paid IDB compensation of the ticket price for that segment or two times the ticket price of the segment, depending on how long the they were delayed to their destination. Those figures are capped at $400/$800. The full rules are here.

Originally Posted by nsx View Post
They use a standard weight per passenger, and IIRC it's 150 pounds, which is too low but that's what the book says to do.
The current numbers are 190 summer, 195 winter. This includes carry-on luggage, but not checked. Children 2-13 are counted as 82/87 pounds. See the end of this article for more details.
The $1000 figure comes from B6's own Passenger Bill of Rights that states that IDB compensation is $1000.
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Old Apr 16, 09, 11:08 am
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Originally Posted by djk7 View Post
Not sure where the $1000 figure comes from, but if they needed to remove confirmed pax, they should have asked for volunteers first. In the case where they did remove anyone non-voluntarily, they should have been paid IDB compensation of the ticket price for that segment or two times the ticket price of the segment, depending on how long the they were delayed to their destination. Those figures are capped at $400/$800. The full rules are here.
JetBlue has their own bill of rights for customers, which states:

Customers who are involuntarily denied boarding shall receive $1,000.
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Old Apr 16, 09, 11:31 am
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Originally Posted by caphis View Post
Standby customers know that at any time, for any reason, they may be asked to deplane and rebook.
It may be the truth that standby passengers "may be asked to deplane and rebook" at any time and for any reason, but I doubt that standby passengers know that. I bet that most figure that once they're on the plane, they're good to go.


Originally Posted by MileageAddict View Post
Even though the passengers were standby, once they are issued a confirmed seat assignment, they are no longer standby.
Where is this stated? Is it in the contract of carriage? DOT regs?
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